Tight End Stats Through 5 games

[Lost]

5 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Kincaid was a dumb draft pick

 

giving Knox that big contract was dumber though

 

Agree on the Knox part.  I like him but 13 million per year is a lot of money for a glorified chip blocker.

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Giving Knox that big contract was dumber though

 

It's definitely a head scratcher.  

 

 

[Beast]

22 hours ago, Numark3 said:

Is it a goal to have TE production?  For the most part, the offense is humming and the TEs are a part of it.  What is the issue or your point?

 

Hey Dorsey, we want more TE production:

 

dorsey: Why?

 

idk

Then why spend 53 million on 1 TE and a 1st round pick on another.

 

Maybe the assets spent on the position of tight end were a waste and could have been better used elsewhere?

 

The offense is humming alright…when they play ***** defenses. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Beast

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Kincaid was a dumb draft pick

 

giving Knox that big contract was dumber though

I didn’t love the trade up. If Kincaid fell to the Bills at their original pick, okay sure, but wasting another 4th? Don’t care if Dallas took him either, another player with lots of potential would've been available, as is usually the case in the early rounds.
Last year when we pissed away our 4th trading up for Elam, these were some of the players available at pick 130, before the Bills next selection of Shakir:

QB Sam Howell (WAS)

WR Romeo Doubs (GB)

TE Isaiah Likely (BAL)

TE Chigoziem Okonkwo (TN)

OT Spencer Burford (SF)

OT Cordell Volson (CIN)

LB Micah McFadden (NYG)

CB Josh Williams (KC)

 

The majority of them are starters and could’ve been, at the least, key contributors here. There’s legitimate value in fourth round picks and we’ve pissed away both in consecutive years. I really wish Beane was more patient.

[HoofHearted]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:25 AM, Simon said:

 

If they weren't spending half the game covering the RT, they would be a much more dynamic part of the offense.

As it is, the Bills are spending a significant percentage of their passing downs playing 10 vs 11.

This narrative is exaggerated. Are they chipping some? Yes. Is it anywhere close to 50 percent of snaps? No.

 

There were quite a few vertical concepts by Tight Ends in the Jaguars game. Some of them were just collector routes but others were part of the progression. Pocket breakdowns or 1v1 matchups backside that Josh liked instead were big reasons why they weren’t targeted.

 

Vast majority of chips came on play action.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

This narrative is exaggerated. Are they chipping some? Yes. Is it anywhere close to 50 percent of snaps? No.

 

 

It probably isn't actually 50.

But I wouldn't be surprised if it's hovering somewhere above 40.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

This narrative is exaggerated. Are they chipping some? Yes. Is it anywhere close to 50 percent of snaps? No.

 

There were quite a few vertical concepts by Tight Ends in the Jaguars game. Some of them were just collector routes but others were part of the progression. Pocket breakdowns or 1v1 matchups backside that Josh liked instead were big reasons why they weren’t targeted.

 

Vast majority of chips came on play action.

I can't speak to it's accuracy but here's a graph built from the PFF data that somebody posted a week ago.

 

[BullBuchanan]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:21 AM, Numark3 said:

Is it a goal to have TE production?  For the most part, the offense is humming and the TEs are a part of it.  What is the issue or your point?

 

Hey Dorsey, we want more TE production:

 

dorsey: Why?

 

idk

Offense is humming? Like a car with a dead battery?

[What a Tuel]

35 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Offense is humming? Like a car with a dead battery?

 

Seems to be humming.

 

3rd in points scored.

4th in total yards.

4th in passing yards.

3rd in passing tds.

15th in rushing yards.

5th in rushing tds.

[FireChans]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:21 AM, Numark3 said:

Is it a goal to have TE production?  For the most part, the offense is humming and the TEs are a part of it.  What is the issue or your point?

 

Hey Dorsey, we want more TE production:

 

dorsey: Why?

 

idk

Yeah, I watched the Bills not get a first down until 4 min in the second quarter last week and said “wow, the offense is humming.”

 

Get lawst with this.

On 10/12/2023 at 1:21 PM, 716 said:

All the hate for Dorsey and the lack of TE production, but I don't recall very much TE success with Daboll, or forever for that matter in Buffalo. Am I wrong?

Dawson Knox was near the top in the league in TE TD’s in 2021

[3rdand12]

49 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Seems to be humming.

 

3rd in points scored.

4th in total yards.

4th in passing yards.

3rd in passing tds.

15th in rushing yards.

5th in rushing tds.

W/L ?

THis subject makes me something something crazy !
 I do not understand why Bills hate TEs since forever.

 

The answer to winning is right there. It really is. and using Cook/Hines as a pass catcher. Geesh

 

I miss Scott Chandler

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:21 PM, Numark3 said:

Is it a goal to have TE production?  For the most part, the offense is humming and the TEs are a part of it.  What is the issue or your point?

 

Hey Dorsey, we want more TE production:

 

dorsey: Why?

 

idk

Probably because we got stomped out by the Jaguars. Would’ve been nice seeing what Kincaid could do if we were gonna lose the game anyway. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

W/L ?

THis subject makes me something something crazy !
 I do not understand why Bills hate TEs since forever.

 

The answer to winning is right there. It really is. and using Cook/Hines as a pass catcher. Geesh

 

I miss Scott Chandler

I was gonna criticize u for using Scott Chandler as the Bills’ beacon of TEs. Then I googled Chandler and he still owns the best statistical season of any TE in Bills history since 1967. Pretty Fing sad. 
 

I don’t care if Kincaid is a rookie, he didn’t forget how to run routes. Dorsey should use the CJ Spiller method and get him out in space more. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

I wouldn't pin it all Dorsey.  

 

Having a great coach with his hands, apparently, tied in the matter, is problematic.  

 

I have no idea why McD perpetually gets a pass at the mismanagement of the most relevant piece of the team.  

 

Apparently the whole "culture" thing outweighs the performance aspect.  

 

 

IMO there are probably less that 2 coaches in the NFL that are force multipliers on both sides of the ball. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

IMO there are probably less that 2 coaches in the NFL that are force multipliers on both sides of the ball. 

 

Not suggesting he had to be a force multiplier, but anyone watching knows what some of the issues are, at least force your OC to correct it. 

 

 

[Dopey]

There’s only one ball to go around. The more touches Kincaid gets, the less others get. Like maybe Davis. And the same people would complain about Davis not producing. 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:25 PM, Simon said:

 

If they weren't spending half the game covering the RT, they would be a much more dynamic part of the offense.

As it is, the Bills are spending a significant percentage of their passing downs playing 10 vs 11.

 

 

It seems that it hurts the feelings of some here that the Bills can't just go 5 wide and have Josh Allen toss 4 yard passes from the shotgun all day because Spencer Brown isn't one of the best pass blocking RT's in the league.

 

But not me..........the Bills are much more dynamic with 6(or 7) blockers in.

 

So I couldn't care less about TE stats when Diggs or Davis are wide open outside/downfield because the defense isn't able to spread out and play 2 high with the safeties out to the numbers like when Rob Johnson was the QB.

 

The outside WR are clearly on pace for much better seasons than last year as a result.    

 

That's where the TE numbers are going to.

 

Now imagine if BOTH of those receivers were studs instead of one of them being Gabe Davis.

 

 

[HoofHearted]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

I can't speak to it's accuracy but here's a graph built from the PFF data that somebody posted a week ago.

 

It’s probably fairly accurate - their raw data stuff usually is. We slide protection his way quite a bit so I’m not surprised by the “left on island” rate. The help isn’t coming from the right ends as frequently as people seem to think though.

[3rdand12]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It seems that it hurts the feelings of some here that the Bills can't just go 5 wide and have Josh Allen toss 4 yard passes from the shotgun all day because Spencer Brown isn't one of the best pass blocking RT's in the league.

 

But not me..........the Bills are much more dynamic with 6(or 7) blockers in.

 

So I couldn't care less about TE stats when Diggs or Davis are wide open outside/downfield because the defense isn't able to spread out and play 2 high with the safeties out to the numbers like when Rob Johnson was the QB.

 

The outside WR are clearly on pace for much better seasons than last year as a result.    

 

That's where the TE numbers are going to.

 

Now imagine if BOTH of those receivers were studs instead of one of them being Gabe Davis.

 

 

Imagine if one of them was Kincaid ?

[PBF81]

19 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It seems that it hurts the feelings of some here that the Bills can't just go 5 wide and have Josh Allen toss 4 yard passes from the shotgun all day because Spencer Brown isn't one of the best pass blocking RT's in the league.

 

But not me..........the Bills are much more dynamic with 6(or 7) blockers in.

 

So I couldn't care less about TE stats when Diggs or Davis are wide open outside/downfield because the defense isn't able to spread out and play 2 high with the safeties out to the numbers like when Rob Johnson was the QB.

 

The outside WR are clearly on pace for much better seasons than last year as a result.    

 

That's where the TE numbers are going to.

 

Now imagine if BOTH of those receivers were studs instead of one of them being Gabe Davis.

 

It seems to me that from what I've read, the primary criticism is why the drafted Kincaid if that's all they're going to do, particularly when other needs, like perhaps a blocker that wouldn't require us to have 7 blockers, and maybe only 6, or instead of 6, only 5 at times. 

 

Kincaid's on pace for about 400 yards, 0 TDs, and fewer than 7 YPC by season's end. 

 

That's going to be tough to justify on why the team believed that needed to trade up for Kincaid in the 1st.  

 

Kind of like last season when they traded Moss for Hines because Hines was a dynamic receiver.  Then he caught a fraction of the passes that he caught on a per-game basis throughout his career.  

 

Those aren't the types of things that inspire confidence.  

 

And notice I've taken no side, just putting the facts out.  But teams don't draft a receiving TE with limited blocking skills and then say to themselves, we'll be ecstatic if he puts up 25 yards-per-game and can get 6 or 7 YPR, and we don't care if logs any TDs.  

 

If McBeane & Co. don't want to be criticized, then it's pretty simple, start making decisions that make sense.  Meanwhile, over in Indy, Moss is tearing it up.  After this weekend he'll likely lead the AFC in rushing, outperforming Cook.  What does that say about McD's coaching and Dorsey's coaching.  Nothing positive to be sure.  

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by PBF81