Are the Pats tanking?

[stuvian]

Just now, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Being the obtuse person I am, I am not sure of the meaning of the Snickers.  Is it the old catchphrase 'Not going anywhere for a while?', or are you just saying my elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor? 🤔😁

Was trying to find a clip of Dana Carvey imitating Paul McCartney doing a Snickers commercial saying "it's packed with peanuts" but this was the best I could do 

[BuffaloBillyG]

No. Bill is wanting that record. He's not taking a year off from trying to win. 

 

That said, I think he sees the writing on the wall and that it's all coming to a close for him. Having to face life without TB12 has taken its toll and exposed him as a GM AND as a HC. 

 

Unless there is a major turn around in the back half of the season, I fully expect this to be his last year. And I don't believe they have the talent to turn it around.

[JohnNord]

16 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

They are not tanking…  the team is just built poorly offensively and are suffering some pretty big injuries.   
 

The past few years people in the media have actually applauded BB for his off-season which has including bringing in bigger bodies on offense to punish the smaller, quicker defense in the modern NFL.  My guess is he’s been so successful they assumed it would happen again.  How many times have you read “He zigs when everyone else zags!?!?!?”

IMO it’s a mix between ignorance and hubris.  Bill believes he can turn back the clock to 2001 when his defense could carry the team and the offense just had to play smart and control the ball.  
 

To be fair, the New England defense still has been pretty good at full strength, but they have been killed by injuries.  
 

I think Belichick is still very good as a defensive coordinator, but the way he built the offense over the past three seasons should be a fireable offense as GM

14 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I agree that it isnt Belichick's DNA to tank... and you also have players and other personnel who are highly competitive and jobs and money are on the line.

 

They are a bad team.  This has been festering for a few years since they blew their cap money and got nothing for it, drafting low-ceiling Mac Jones and ruining him with terrible coordinators, and further rotting of the roster.  Add in the fact that 3 of the top 10 teams in the league reside in their division (when Rodgers is in) it is a disaster.

 

You do not need to tank for the top QB.  Top QBs are not an exact science.  There are many QBs with the physical traits and a lot has to do with nurture over nature at this point.  A large part of it is what is between the ears.  A top drafted QB in New England does not scare me at all because BB will continue to go the internal/comfortable route for coordinators, draft poorly, resist getting top receivers, and everything else.  

 

Brock Purdy

 

You can also shortcut and find good QBs on FA or trade these days and even reclamation projects.

Brock Purdy is a “once in a few decades” outlier.  Probably not the best example.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

29 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I don't think BB has it in him to tank. They are just a bad team that bad personal decisions have finally caught up to them 

I agree with this.  They just suck.

[starrymessenger]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

They are not tanking…  the team is just built poorly offensively and are suffering some pretty big injuries.   
 

The past few years people in the media have actually applauded BB for his off-season which has including bringing in bigger bodies on offense to punish the smaller, quicker defense in the modern NFL.  My guess is he’s been so successful they assumed it would happen again.  How many times have you read “He zigs when everyone else zags!?!?!?”

IMO it’s a mix between ignorance and hubris.  Bill believes he can turn back the clock to 2001 when his defense could carry the team and the offense just had to play smart and control the ball.  
 

To be fair, the New England defense still has been pretty good at full strength, but they have been killed by injuries.  
 

I think Belichick is still very good as a defensive coordinator, but the way he built the offense over the past three seasons should be a fireable offense as GM

Brock Purdy is a “once in a few decades” outlier.  Probably not the best example.

 

 

Mac Jones is terrible in the NE O. But he'd probably be very good in San Fran. He has pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses as Brock Purdy.

[starrymessenger]

34 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not on purpose, but the nightmare scenario as a Bills fan is Caleb Williams in Foxbourgh.

Going to NE would more likely be a nightmare scenario for Caleb or Maye. 

[Low Positive]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

Going to NE would more likely be a nightmare scenario for Caleb or Maye. 

Any place that will have that draft pick is going to be a 💩 show. I think that I would rather play in NE than Chicago. At least the owner has real NFL owner money.

[Haslett_Stomp]

I listened to the Pats*** post-game radio show on the way home from LGA on Sunday and the hosts were apoplectic - they were questioning whether BB is trying to get fired.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Haslett_Stomp

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

Any place that will have that draft pick is going to be a 💩 show. I think that I would rather play in NE than Chicago. At least the owner has real NFL owner money.

Some "bad" teams know how to develop an elite prospect at the all important position, Jacksonville, Buffalo...Some teams only know how to ruin them. If I were in the Williams or Maye camps I would not want them in NE. 

[Success]

During the Brady years, I was hoping that this was the kind of thread title I'd see on here in 2023.  

 

Pinch me.

 

[90sBills]

No…they just suck. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

Belichick tanking isn't going to happen given his chase for Shula's record.

[May Day 10]

27 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

Brock Purdy is a “once in a few decades” outlier.  Probably not the best example.

 

 

 

It's more of a nod to SF than Purdy.  If Purdy was on NE, he is probably already headed to the refuse pile.  If Zappe were on SF,  I wonder if he would get to this level.  

 

Bad teams and bad organizations often pick at the top of the draft and we see a high bust rate.  Now, more than ever, we see well constructed teams get QBs a touch later, then roll.  Mahomes, Hurts, Allen, Lamar, prescott, Purdy come to mind (although they swung with Lance).  Ironically, I think Brady to new england was the same story.  If Brady goes anywhere else, especially to the Browns at 1OA, he is likely nothing more than a footnote on their bizarre run of QBs over 25 years.

 

Even good teams kind find a serviceable qb outside the top of the draft.  Cousins, Rodgers, Goff, and Stafford come to mind.  Maybe Watson or Wilson if they turn it around.  

[Doc]

55 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I agree that it isnt Belichick's DNA to tank... and you also have players and other personnel who are highly competitive and jobs and money are on the line.

 

They are a bad team.  This has been festering for a few years since they blew their cap money and got nothing for it, drafting low-ceiling Mac Jones and ruining him with terrible coordinators, and further rotting of the roster.  Add in the fact that 3 of the top 10 teams in the league reside in their division (when Rodgers is in) it is a disaster.

 

You do not need to tank for the top QB.  Top QBs are not an exact science.  There are many QBs with the physical traits and a lot has to do with nurture over nature at this point.  A large part of it is what is between the ears.  A top drafted QB in New England does not scare me at all because BB will continue to go the internal/comfortable route for coordinators, draft poorly, resist getting top receivers, and everything else.  

 

Brock Purdy

 

You can also shortcut and find good QBs on FA or trade these days and even reclamation projects.

 

Purdy?  Uh, hello, Brady.

 

But relying on hitting on a stud QB later in the draft is not a strategy.  But taking a QB high is no guarantee either.  

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

Sorry but I'm just not buying into BB forgetting how to coach football. Handy loving, casino owning Kraft is not above anything either.

I can't rule out a well designed flop to set the table for mullet wearing, snot licking Hoodie junior.

Bill Belichick has always been overrated. He hasn't "forgotten" how to coach. He road on the back of the best QB of all time for 20 years. I'm not sure why this has to keep getting explained to people. He did nothing before him in 6 seasons as head coach and has done nothing after him in nearly 3 and half seasons after. He's coached 11 full seasons without Brady and had 2 playoff appearances in those 11. The Pats aren't tanking. They just suck. And their overrated coach is showing how overrated he always has been. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Buffalo03

[BillsUberAlles]

No, I think they just suck. Belichick seems increasingly out of touch with the way the game has evolved recently and seems incapable of even slowing down good offensive teams.

 

Offensively they are lost.

Edited October 12, 2023 by BillsUberAlles

[May Day 10]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Purdy?  Uh, hello, Brady.

 

But relying on hitting on a stud QB later in the draft is not a strategy.  But taking a QB high is no guarantee either.  

 

I think you have a forward thinking leadership,  start building a good org, then find a high trait, superlative qb in the draft who has it between the ears.  A poorly run team can't fall on their face, grab Caleb Williams, and everything else will follow suit with the same management making the same mistakes.

[Logic]

I do not believe that the Pats are trying to tank. Rather, I think that Bill Belichick is trying to follow the same blueprint that led to a Pats dynasty in the early 2000s, and it's simply not working any more, but he's stubbornly clinging to it anyway, and it will be his downfall.

Very good defense, good running game, game managing pocket passer. That was always the blueprint. People talk about the lack of weapons on the Patriots offense, but it's ALWAYS been that way under Belichick's watch. For the best years of the Pats dynasty, they were trotting out guys like David Givens, Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk, and Christian Fauria. Yes, they eventually had the Moss, Welker, Gronk years, but those were not the years during which they were at their best as a team. It was only the pivot back to focusing on elite defense that led to a second set of Super Bowl wins for the Pats.

The first problem is, the game has changed drastically since then. Football has become so much more tilted towards offensive production and the passing game that now you DO need some weaponry. The other thing you need is a true franchise quarterback, which leads us to...

The second problem: Mac Jones is not Tom Brady. He's not even Drew Bledsoe.

The third problem is, Belichick has been slow to adjust to the changes in defensive football. The move toward undersized, speedy defenders instead of big, thumping old school grinders is one that Belichick has been loathe to make. He's finally doing it, but it's taken a while.

And finally, the fourth problem: This is a different era of athlete. The hard-ass "Patriot Way" stuff, the gruff, grumpy, mean, "no one gets to have any fun under my watch" stuff doesn't work with people in 2023 the way it did in 2003. We've heard more and more NFL players speaking out in recent years about not wanting to go anywhere NEAR the Patriots because things are so miserable there.

I suspect we're seeing the end of Bill Belichick's storied coaching career. I don't think Robert Kraft will continue to put up with the Pats coming in 3rd and 4th place in the East every year. Soon enough, we'll see a new coach and GM brought in and a roster stripped down and rebuilt. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Logic

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Fleezoid said:

Not buying he's tanking. This is exactly Bill Belichick coaching abilities outside of Brady. I'll give him the HOF simply due to the number of Super Bowls, but GOAT?? No freaking way. 

That is fair  

Who is you goat? 

Shula? Lombardi? Landry? Reid? 

 

Mine would be Bill Walsh. 

[gonzo1105]

I might be one of the few people who think Caleb Williams isn’t a generational prospect. He’s a bigger Kyler Murray. 
 

I get him being # 1 since Murray went 1 but I see him being a good NFL QB. I know a lot will disagree