The right mix between air and ground

[oldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The Bills went McD's first 48 games without a 300 yard passing game, which is unheard of in modern football and 100% I blame McD of his philosophy.  No other team went a year without one (yes probably the 2022 Bears).

 

He can say whatever he wants and as said above the proof is in the pudding as the game plan every game coming out has been to try and establish inside running and short passes.  It was to me, the reason they lost Sunday.   

You can control the clock completing passes too?  Also TOP is due to the defense not getting off the field.  Do you not get that?  

Time of possession has to do with the offense making first downs and controlling the clock.  In case you missed it the Bills didn’t do that the entire first half on Sunday.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Depends entirely on what the defense is doing…we didn’t run the ball much on Sunday because the jags had pretty much everyone in the box.  They were clogging up the underneath stuff and shutting down the run then they ran a bunch of impressive simulated pressures to prevent us from having enough time to work the ball down the field all at the same time.

 

I mean everyone is sad that we lost that’s understandable but with how well the jags defense played I thought josh showed a ton of maturity.  That was the kind of game where he has completely melted down in the past.  I think you need a  josh Allen(defensive player lol) who can line up anywhere and do anything to replicate that jags defensive game plan and only really the cowboys have that of the teams we have left on the schedule 

[BananaB]

Bills just need to go with their bruisers. Give it to the big boys and let them run downhill, any positive yards help. Cook is too soft. He’s valuable but not when your trying to establish the run against a solid DL

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The Bills had two 300 yard games in 2016 (before McD the savour arrived).  They ranked 29th, 30th & 24th in offense in his first three years.

 

Yea I really miss those years when the Bills were at the bottom of the league in offense.   

 

First of all, no we didn't.

Second of all, that one 300 yard game in OT against the Dolphins.  

 

Is that your proof that McDermott held back Taylor from throwing 300 yards or something?  That 5 quarter gave Taylor 317 yards.  Is this really your proof?

You're not being serious are you?

 

 

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Time of possession has to do with the offense making first downs and controlling the clock.  In case you missed it the Bills didn’t do that the entire first half on Sunday.

 

He's not legitimately this dumb.  No one can be.  
This is just stubbornness at the highest level.

[Lake Ontario]

Getting "behind the chains" seems to be exactly what happened in our two losses.  In both those games I found it incredibly frustrating to watch the high percentage of 1st down runs by Cook through the A-Gaps.  Cook seems much more effective when a little space is created for him IMO.  If we MUST test between the guards, I like the head of steam Harris brings to those runs over Cook.

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

First of all, no we didn't.

Second of all, that one 300 yard game in OT against the Dolphins.  

 

Is that your proof that McDermott held back Taylor from throwing 300 yards or something?  That 5 quarter gave Taylor 317 yards.  Is this really your proof?

You're not being serious are you?

 

 

 

He's not legitimately this dumb.  No one can be.  
This is just stubbornness at the highest level.

He would rather the Bills lose so long as they throw the ball.  He stated this clearly last year.  That’s all you need to know about him.

[Billsfan1972]

21 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

First of all, no we didn't.

Second of all, that one 300 yard game in OT against the Dolphins.  

 

Is that your proof that McDermott held back Taylor from throwing 300 yards or something?  That 5 quarter gave Taylor 317 yards.  Is this really your proof?

You're not being serious are you?

 

 

 

He's not legitimately this dumb.  No one can be.  
This is just stubbornness at the highest level.

Dumb....  Look in the mirror.  The defence stops the offense and then they get off the field.  The Bills did not on Sunday.  The Offense is to blame for a 17 play 8:30 drive, a 93 yard drive and 75 yard drives.  10 of 18 3rd down conversions, many of them over 7 yards and almost all pass completions?  500 yards in offense was Josh Allen's fault?  

 

I will grant you that the offense not getting first downs is an issue, but it is the defense that couldn't stop Lawrence, who had almost 200 yards passing in the first half too.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[teef]

[Italian Bills]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

Are you enjoying the match between oldmanfan vs billsfan1972 maybe ? 😀

[Billsfan1972]

A perfect example of the "useless" play calling Sunday was the second play of the game, where it is second and 4 (a decent 6 yard run on first down by Murray, not Cook, between the tackles) and then a stupid 2 yard pass to Diggs that had no chance for a first down, followed by the drop by Cook on third. 

 

Anyone want to go through the first 5 games and I'll bet you the play calling was very similar, though results varied.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Italian Bills said:

Are you enjoying the match between oldmanfan vs billsfan1972 maybe ? 😀

i love the matches between billsfan1972 and anyone.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

Based on the personal we have, in your opinion, what would have to be the right percentage of the total offensive plays between the pass game and run game ? 
 

I know that every game can force you to change your plan, but in general ? 
 

Do you think that this Bills team would be good for a 65/35 split between the two ways where 65 % is dedicated at the offense ?

 

I always said that when the Bills run over the 100 yards, we win. 
 

Jets game: Bills 97 - L

Raiders game: Bills 183 - W

Commanders: Bills 168 - W

Phins game: Bills 104 - W

Jaguars game: Bills 29 - L

 

Just a case ? Don’t think so. 
 

We desperately need our ground yards to open up the game on the air. 

 

 

 

Joe Marino is pushing this idea that the Bills ran into the run looks. 

 

I'd argue that the Bills didn't even try to run the ball in London. 

 

When we did run with Cook, it was the same delayed Shotgun play that never works. 

 

Murray and Harris got a combined 5 carries. 

 

We ran the ball 3 times in the second half. 

[Italian Bills]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

i love the matches between billsfan1972 and anyone.  

😅

[dpberr]

James Cook is not an RB1 against good to great NFL defenses.  Harris is.  

 

You use Harris to soften up the defense and then layer Cook in.  Murray spells Harris.  

 

Harris makes even more sense when you consider the Bills use their TEs primarily to block and not catch passes. 

 

 

 

 

[Xwnyer]

6 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

Based on the personal we have, in your opinion, what would have to be the right percentage of the total offensive plays between the pass game and run game ? 
 

I know that every game can force you to change your plan, but in general ? 
 

Do you think that this Bills team would be good for a 65/35 split between the two ways where 65 % is dedicated at the offense ?

 

I always said that when the Bills run over the 100 yards, we win. 
 

Jets game: Bills 97 - L

Raiders game: Bills 183 - W

Commanders: Bills 168 - W

Phins game: Bills 104 - W

Jaguars game: Bills 29 - L

 

Just a case ? Don’t think so. 
 

We desperately need our ground yards to open up the game on the air. 

 

 

 

we need to be primarily under center.  Helps RB get moving toward LOS versus standing still getting handed the ball.   Second opens up play action game.   Third allows for better usage of motion and fourth makes it easier for the lineman to get a play change call.   All of this leads to better rhythm and better ability to run the ball keeping defense honest.

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

He don't have the right starting back to control the ground game.  That said we have to keep the pass defense somewhat honest.  40% is my thought

I think Harris is a very capable RB for this offense. He's not a breakaway type RB, but he is a chain mover!! That's all this offense needs is a chain moving type RB. 

[oldmanfan]

6 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

Based on the personal we have, in your opinion, what would have to be the right percentage of the total offensive plays between the pass game and run game ? 
 

I know that every game can force you to change your plan, but in general ? 
 

Do you think that this Bills team would be good for a 65/35 split between the two ways where 65 % is dedicated at the offense ?

 

I always said that when the Bills run over the 100 yards, we win. 
 

Jets game: Bills 97 - L

Raiders game: Bills 183 - W

Commanders: Bills 168 - W

Phins game: Bills 104 - W

Jaguars game: Bills 29 - L

 

Just a case ? Don’t think so. 
 

We desperately need our ground yards to open up the game on the air. 

 

 

 

I think we needed to run Murray and Harris more last Sunday.  We needed to do some old-fashioned smash mouth football.

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I think we needed to run Murray and Harris more last Sunday.  We needed to do some old-fashioned smash mouth football.

Yep and ensure no 300 yard passing game.  You love that 60's football huh?

 

How about getting first downs those first 4 possessions by doing what JA does best?  Longing for the days of Jack Kemp?

[Low Positive]

The Jags had an interesting game plan on D. They had three weeks of film of the Bills running and taking the underneath throws so they packed the box and took all that away. They tried to bait Josh into playing “hero ball” and he didn’t take the bait. Perhaps he should have.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

I think McDermott said it best at halftime on Sunday, need to avoid getting behind the chains on first and second down. An incompletion or run for no gain is one thing but taking a tackle for loss on a running play (or sack) is arguably as detrimental as a holding penalty in that you take negative yards AND lose the down. 
 

the bills need to identify which plays they run that have a high probability (relative) of taking negative yardage (e.g. running from shotgun) and do something else. I.e. be as risk adverse in the running game as they want josh to be in the passing game. 
 

the rushing yards are one metric but 3rd down conversion is the better metric imo. A more effective running game, not necessarily more runs keeps third downs more manageable. 

 

Agree with everything.  We win when we stress being behind center.  We have to use play action 50% of the time. The shotgun draw should be eliminated immediately.  Stop throwing the ball 3 yards behind the LOS.  Stop pitching the ball to Cook 3 yards behind the LOS.  These are obvious plays that are failing every time.  Dorsey is no Reid, Shanahan or McDaniel. So you gotta hope he learns from his inconsistencies and draws up a few clever plays.  I'm not a fan of a scripted first drive. Allow Josh to check out of plays early,  which didn't happen in London.  It took KD over 3 qtrs to figure out Jacksonville's heavy boxes.

 

The dink & dunk strategy does work against weaker teams/ HC's.  But better opponents you have to identify their early defensive scheme and attack it without scripted plays.  Take your shots deep when they are available.