No "sugar-rush" Josh vs. JAX?

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, AlfaBill said:

Agreed. But what does that have to do with him getting fired up on the sideline? The assumption is that if he isn’t, he’s not doing his best. That’s wrong and silly. 

I think if he’s getting fired up in the game he’s more likely to bring that energy to the huddle and sideline? 

[The Red King]

27 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I think we've been over that before. It has been discussed ad nauseum.

 

Let's talk Sunday.  Josh was on a leash (& drops were crucial).

 

None of which has anything to do with the OP.  Was pointing out that in a situation where he frequently drops into sugar-rush mode and starts trying to force bad throws in, he did not this time.  He kept his composure.

 

That is all this thread was about.  Just that aspect.  I did not say a single word about his performance otherwise.  There are already several threads debating his overall performance.

 

Sadly, posters who want to complain about Josh's overall performance ignored that, hijacked this thread and made it just like all the others.

 

This thread went off-topic a long while back.

[Einstein]

13 hours ago, mrags said:

 I think he looked sulking in the sideline like he was a dog that just had his balls cut off. 

 

I love Josh. He is by far my favorite player. But I do wish he had a bit more fire on the sideline. I wish we saw him doing what Brady did for 20 years and pumping up his teammates on the sideline and getting on people for making mistakes and showing strong leadership. It seems that is more of Diggs role on this team.

[BillsFan692]

Agree with the OP. Is this not what we have all been collectively bitching and whining about the melt-down style hero ball? Josh has shelved it. If we're gonna lose, it's not gonna be his fault. I don't blame the kid, it's what the coaches and media have been clamoring for. Just goes to show you that playing it safe doesn't always lead to Ws, either. It was close to working out though, if defense could have mustered a stop on that last drive but the dagger to ridley with hyde in coverage was basically the end of the game. Even bills fans have to admit that was an absolute dime from Trevor Lawrence on that ball -- pressure was coming, hyde was 1 on 1, I am pretty sure trevor was about to get hit as he threw. It's a game of inches sometimes.

Edited October 10, 2023 by BillsFan692

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I saw no spark or fire under Allen's as$ until there was five minutes to go in the game. Probably because of jet leg due to pis$ poor scheduling. Whatever the reason the offense was as flat as a pancake. Stayed flat for way way way too long!!!

 

Dorsey made what adjustments? More off tackle runs with Cook? 

 

How many of us thought ok we get the ball after halftime and the Bills are going to score. Win the game with some nice offensive plays. Nope nope and nope. It was more shi!!y plays and more sleep walking. Offense had nothing and it showed. Dorsey was incapable of adjusting to their defensive scheme, Josh played way too conservative, and the oline was asleep at the wheel except when holding. They certainly didn't open up any holes. That's the game I saw. Not sure what game you saw?

 

At least the seriously depleted and undermanned defense played with heart. They gave it their all. I saw effort, passion. McD mixed up the defensive calls and dialed up timely blitzes. The Bills defensive went out with a bang. Hung in there despite the lack of talent due to key injuries. Made some big plays to give the offense a chance. I really can't say a lot of bad about their effort under the circumstances. Really a complete opposite of the Bills offense. 

 

You can point to travel, unfair advantage, poor ref calls, injuries, etc... Certainly all of this has its place and validity. 

 

As a fan, I cannot accept when a team is flat, has no energy, gets out worked, gets pushed around, out coached, out planned, and doesn't make adjustments. You don't continue doing the same or similar things after consistent failure. That's exactly what the Bills offense did until halfway through the 4th quarter. Wouldn't you agree? 

 

A loss is one thing if a team just out executes you and plays beyond their usual level of play. Any given day sort of speak. That wasn't the case vs the Jags. They were ready to play and the Bills weren't. The Jags coaches executed a solid game plan and the Bills coaches didn't. The Jags coaches made adjustments and the Bills cosches ( Dorsey) didn't. The Jags players executed plays more than the Bills' players. Frankly, it was a poor effort on the whole Bills' organization. Sure felt like old regimes and coaches of the miserable past I was watching. Anyone else have a little flashback? 

 

However, this game was bigger than a loss on the win loss column. The Milano and Jones injury with Tre are borderline devastating and game changing. To think otherwise is drinking the cool aid. Of course, we fans will mostly be optimistic and hope for the best. I certainly will hope for the best but my optimism isn't high. 

 

This Bills team cannot escape serious injuries to elite and key players. This team has repeatedly failed to get over the hope. The team is just good enough to give us hope. A hope most gravitate towards years after year. Only to fall short year after year. Sadly, I see the cycle continuing. 

 

That was an awful long writeup about a bunch of stuff that have nothing to do with how Josh looked on that 10 sec TV clip on the sideline bench.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Scott7975

[Billsfan1972]

24 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

None of which has anything to do with the OP.  Was pointing out that in a situation where he frequently drops into sugar-rush mode and starts trying to force bad throws in, he did not this time.  He kept his composure.

 

That is all this thread was about.  Just that aspect.  I did not say a single word about his performance otherwise.  There are already several threads debating his overall performance.

 

Sadly, posters who want to complain about Josh's overall performance ignored that, hijacked this thread and made it just like all the others.

 

This thread went off-topic a long while back.

No your post intimates how great it was that Josh didn't try and win the game on his own, and many here disagree and think what the Bills need is Josh doing everything he is capable of to will them to victory and stupid controlled play calls the first 22 minutes and then out of ht needs to be scrapped.

[2003Contenders]

I agree with the main point made by the OP that is was good to see Josh not try to do too much in a game where he may have historically caused costly turnovers. And I certainly believe that the offense's woes were not Josh's fault, as there were many dropped passes and poorly run routes than constantly came up short of the 1st down.

 

That said, I also worry that perhaps the coaching staff has drilled it into his head TOO MUCH about NOT taking off and running with the ball. There were opportunities Sunday where he could have probably got a 1st down with his legs but chose to try to complete a low percentage pass instead. I mean when Dabol was here, if the offense sputtered, he would call designed run plays for Josh to help get the offense on track. That may have helped Sunday when the offense was clearly suffering from jet lag and punting on 6 of 7 possessions.

 

More than just poor play calling, I think Dorsey suffers from poor play DESIGN. I am tired of seeing these 2 and 3 yard routes, which rely heavily on YAC when the team has shown an inability to get YAC all season. What kind of genius call has 4 receivers in the same vicinity? That happened multiple times on Sunday.  I also winder why quit-hitting timing routes are not more of a staple of the offense to get into some sort of rhythm? Not sure if Dorsey isn't calling them -- or if Josh is just holding onto the ball too long and not hitting on them. Instead the plays seem to take forever to develop -- and then the pass play goes for 4 yards with no YAC.

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

I agree with the main point made by the OP that is was good to see Josh not try to do too much in a game where he may have historically caused costly turnovers. And I certainly believe that the offense's woes were not Josh's fault, as there were many dropped passes and poorly run routes than constantly came up short of the 1st down.

 

That said, I also worry that perhaps the coaching staff has drilled it into his head TOO MUCH about NOT taking off and running with the ball. There were opportunities Sunday where he could have probably got a 1st down with his legs but chose to try to complete a low percentage pass instead. I mean when Dabol was here, if the offense sputtered, he would call designed run plays for Josh to help get the offense on track. That may have helped Sunday when the offense was clearly suffering from jet lag and punting on 6 of 7 possessions.

 

More than just poor play calling, I think Dorsey suffers from poor play DESIGN. I am tired of seeing these 2 and 3 yard routes, which rely heavily on YAC when the team has shown an inability to get YAC all season. What kind of genius call has 4 receivers in the same vicinity? That happened multiple times on Sunday.  I also winder why quit-hitting timing routes are not more of a staple of the offense to get into some sort of rhythm? Not sure if Dorsey isn't calling them -- or if Josh is just holding onto the ball too long and not hitting on them. Instead the plays seem to take forever to develop -- and then the pass play goes for 4 yards with no YAC.

Again I want to agree with your post, but to agree with the main point says no.  Yes every once in a while Josh needs to be smarter, but this game screamed, wake up and start moving the chains.  These Dorsey designed plays to pick 10 yards and take three plays to do it, just is not using Allen correct.  We saw it too vs. LV and Wash, when there were bigger plays there for the taking.  

 

Doresy threw away the first 22 minutes and some of the third quarter with that play calling.

[Nuncha]

14 hours ago, The Red King said:

Everyone yelled about sugar-rush Josh costing them Week One single-handedly.  Now people are actually complaining that he didn't play like that on Sunday?

 

Really?

This board can be ridiculous.  After week one, some moron was saying Josh was as bad as Peterman.

[Chandler#81]

‘want some whiskey in your water, sugar in your tea?

Whats all these crazy questions ya askin’ me?’

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Nuncha said:

This board can be ridiculous.  After week one, some moron was saying Josh was as bad as Peterman.

Yea I think losing winnable games is great as long as Josh plays controlled football.....🤣

 

Also allowing almost 500 yards + penalties on defense is amazing (and the offenses fault)😉   

[DuckyBoys]

think they got him on meds and its neutered him , lol  Now he's too calm and composed  He even slid neat the goal line

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I love Josh. He is by far my favorite player. But I do wish he had a bit more fire on the sideline. I wish we saw him doing what Brady did for 20 years and pumping up his teammates on the sideline and getting on people for making mistakes and showing strong leadership. It seems that is more of Diggs role on this team.

 

I always thought Brady looked uncomfortable when he was pumping teammates up. Like he knew it was expected of him, but didn't really feel it. 

 

Also thought he always looked spoiled and petulant when losing on the sideline and arguing with coaches/teammates.

 

Josh and all of his individual handshakes for everyone on the team and TD celebrations feels genuine to me. 

 

I'd rather see Josh sitting calmly on the bench like he was this Sunday than staring blankly ahead with a flushed face like the Jets game. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I always thought Brady looked uncomfortable when he was pumping teammates up. Like he knew it was expected of him, but didn't really feel it. 

This is just my personal preference. Allen doesn't "need" this to be good (he is already great), I just kinda personally wish he had more of it.

I was watching an interview with Brady recently, and he talked about how he doesn't understand players now. They hug after the game, and exchange jerseys, and are very friendly with the opponent. He said in the interview that he doesnt understand how these current players can go from being at war with the other team during the game to being friendly after. 

He was essentially calling todays players out for not having the fire he and players from the 70's, 80's and 90's had. 

I remember Fitzpatrick being upset that Brady wouldn't shake his hand after some games - just ran to the locker room. But that's who Brady is. He saw each game as a war and he was not interested in making friendly with the opponent afterward.

Quite frankly, the players being all friendly with one another on other teams is something that has never sat well with me either. I understand why they do it - I just don't love it.

I hated Brady for those 18 years, but I respect him now, and as much as I love Josh (and I really do), I can't help but wish he had a bit of that a-hole in him.

 

 

.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Einstein

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No your post intimates how great it was that Josh didn't try and win the game on his own, and many here disagree and think what the Bills need is Josh doing everything he is capable of to will them to victory and stupid controlled play calls the first 22 minutes and then out of ht needs to be scrapped.

 

So...you want more of Week One.  Gotcha.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, The Red King said:

 

So...you want more of Week One.  Gotcha.

No I want an offensive game plan that takes full advantage of his skills and good play calling. We have not seen that yet with Dorsey outside the blowouts where both sides are clicking. 

 

And you love "neutered" Josh????

[In Summary]

17 hours ago, The Red King said:

Kinda lost in the mix...but when things went to crap and time was running out, some people worried about Josh going full hero ball.  I'm sure he was tempted, but I'll admit I was a bit surprised to see he didn't.

 

Maybe he actually took that Week One disaster to heart.  Too early to tell, but Sun. was at least encouraging in that regard.

Locked on Bills felt Josh played a good game based on the All 22.  Supporting cast not executing and repeated running into a heavy box were notable problems.

[The Red King]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

No I want an offensive game plan that takes full advantage of his skills and good play calling. We have not seen that yet with Dorsey outside the blowouts where both sides are clicking. 

 

And you love "neutered" Josh????

 

Topic of post: Isn't it great that Allen didn't go into sugar rush mode like he did in week one?

 

I never said I wanted him neuteted.

 

Since you're dancing around it...

 

Do you think Josh should have played in sugar rush mode like in week one?

 

If yes, you're delusional.

 

If no, then you should be happy he wasn't in sugar rush mode.

 

Whether he should have had more fire and less restraint is abolutely irrelevant.  My post is specifically about the sugar rush mode he was in during week one, and did not go into Saturday.  I commented on nothing else.

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, In Summary said:

Locked on Bills felt Josh played a good game based on the All 22.  Supporting cast not executing and repeated running into a heavy box were notable problems.

That's on coaching and play calling.

 

3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Topic of post: Isn't it great that Allen didn't go into sugar rush mode like he did in week one?

 

I never said I wanted him neuteted.

 

Since you're dancing around it...

 

Do you think Josh should have played in sugar rush mode like in week one?

 

If yes, you're delusional.

 

If no, then you should be happy he wasn't in sugar rush mode.

 

Whether he should have had more fire and less restraint is abolutely irrelevant.  My post is specifically about the sugar rush mode he was in during week one, and did not go into Saturday.  I commented on nothing else.

The Bills lost and you go on and on about how great it was to see Josh not being "sugar rushed"???!!!  Talk about a pyrrhic victory....  Congratulations you got it.  Are you McD under a pseudonym?

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, The Red King said:

Hero ball is Josh thinking he has to do it all himself.  It leads to him running when he doesn't have to and forcing passes in that should never been thrown in the first place.

 

Again, Week One.  I can't make this any clearer.  This should not be so difficult a concept.

 

That aside, the people who ripped Allen for single-handedly blowing Week One due to hero ball are the same ones complaining that he should have played the way he did Week One?  Ridiculous.

 

This thread just proves that the Allen haters will find some reason to criticize him no matter what, even if the current reason makes hypocrites out of them.

The challenge for Josh & Dorsey will be to find a happy medium based on defensive alignment. The Raiders & Commanders gave us the short stuff and we routed them. The Jags put 8-9 in the box (1st Q) and we took too long to react.  This will be the mantra all year.  Not every team will go deep cover2.  Every game will require discipline with the occasional threat of hero ball.