No "sugar-rush" Josh vs. JAX?

[oldmanfan]

9 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Your synopsis isn't accurate for the majority of people here. 99% of Bills fans know Josh Allen is great and the solution not the problem. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve criticism. The Jets game is a great example. 

 

Not many here are trashing Allen. I certainly am not. However, I did say I wish he was more vocal and emotional on the sidelines. I stand by that. A personal preference if you will. In the end, it's probably not a difference maker but a leader sometimes can spark others to play better.

 

It appeared the Bills offense needed a spark while watching the Jags game. Punting six out of your first seven possessions is terrible. Scoring 7 points midway through the 4th quarter is terrible. Maybe a little emotion could have helped? The Jags certainly were playing with emotion. You could feel it via the TV. Even McD stated the Bills couldn't match their energy! WTF!!!That's just not acceptable. Something needed to change way earlier in the game. But it never did until it was too late. 

 

I thought after halftime the Bills would regroup and show some life. Show some attitude and dominance. Nope they immediately punted after getting the ball. They remained stagnant, unemotional, going through the motions, and their sleep walking continued for another quarter and a half. McD continued his clapping on the sidelines and Dorsey continued to make shi! calls. 

 

I digress. What ever audibles or lack of Allen called didn't work for the greater part of the game. That's just as obvious as they come. The offense was bad. Allen was decent to good but not good enough. It was a game where Allen needed to be unleashed, use his legs, extend plays, and play with emotion. Wear the cape sort of speak. The team was dead on offense. It hindered Allen more than helping him. Allen is likely gun shy to try to be Farve like. It was a missed opportunity by Allen and Dorsey. 

 

In short, we Bills fans are soundly behind Allen. No one is saying he stinks or wishes he's in another uniform. Perhaps, we expect too much from our franchise QB. That could be fair to say. But what you are implying is borderline ridiculous. 

 

 

Leadership comes in many forms.  You don’t have to be a yeller to be a leader.  Looking back at great QBs Brady was, Manning at times, Montana certainly not.  Staubach certainly not.  And so on.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

The problem that I saw was that either Dorsey or Josh was afraid to take the shots when they’re there. You run the ball and take short passes to get teams out of the two high shells. The Jags started bringing guys down into the box. When you get that, taking medium to long pass options is not “hero ball.” It’s actually taking what the defense is giving you. 

I don’t understand the term hero ball at all haha but my best guess given the context is people would see josh dancing around while the oline is collapsing trying to buy time to hit a deep shot as hero ball if it didn’t get the results they were looking for 😂

 

A lot of the hero ball criticism relies on ignoring those types of plays when they do work so the whole thing is a bit hypocritical in my opinion.  Josh is making what should be considered hero ball type plays consistently but they are only brought up when they go wrong 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[pocoboy]

10 hours ago, The Red King said:

Kinda lost in the mix...but when things went to crap and time was running out, some people worried about Josh going full hero ball.  I'm sure he was tempted, but I'll admit I was a bit surprised to see he didn't.

 

Maybe he actually took that Week One disaster to heart.  Too early to tell, but Sun. was at least encouraging in that regard.

 

I was almost certain the final scoring drive was all Sugar Rush Josh. His whole demeanor seemed to be "I'm gonna win this in spite of the gameplan."

Edited October 10, 2023 by pocoboy

[Ramza86]

No game sense from the coaching staff.

 

How did they not see based on defensive injuries and how Jax was able to move down the field almost every drive(luckily they turned it over in the redzone) that we needed to ramp up the offense?

Poor coaching is what that is.

[newcam2012]

20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Leadership comes in many forms.  You don’t have to be a yeller to be a leader.  Looking back at great QBs Brady was, Manning at times, Montana certainly not.  Staubach certainly not.  And so on.

I agree. I think it's about timing. Some situations call for some firey vocal discussions. When you punt, punt, punt, punt, punt, and punt on 7 offensive possessions I think that's a reasonable time to light a fire under some players as$es.

 

McD was too busy with running the decimated defense. Plus, he's more of a clapper than a get in your face challenge you. 

 

I just believe a change in attitude was badly needed. A little challenge and confrontation by the team's leader would have been a welcome site. Instead we saw a fiery frustrated Diggs expressing his displeasure to the team's leader. The leader looked uninterested and perhaps tired of Diggs antics. I'll never question Diggs desire to win. 

[newcam2012]

38 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I think the op’s point was we needed more hero ball depending on what the definition of hero ball is…and if he had attacked deep more and thrown another int people would’ve been saying ‘sugar high josh at it again’ when in reality it is what the game required

 

it also didn’t help that 4 pretty much wide open drops killed drives, tough to hold that against the qb. And the drives where we did score he had to overcome multiple holding penalties 

 

these critiques are all hindsight-y really.  Like obviously if they knew going into it the team would forget how to catch on virtually every big third and medium attempt all game they would’ve taken a lot more shots on earlier downs. We have that information because the game is already over.  But in the moment you’re down one score so there’s no reason to abandon what you’re doing 

I disagree with the last line of your post. Being down one score was the direct result of doing what you were doing. As a Bills fan, I think the Bills should have been up by a double digit figure. Change was needed badly and much more quickly. I have confidence that Allen is versatile enough to led his team back off scripted. Coaching doesn't usually put the offense in the best position to win. Look at Miami, Detroit, San Fran, KC, and Cincinnati. They give their QBs and offenses optimum chances to excell. Buffalo is more in line with the likes of San Diego or the Raiders. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by newcam2012

[Bob in STL]

11 hours ago, The Red King said:

Kinda lost in the mix...but when things went to crap and time was running out, some people worried about Josh going full hero ball.  I'm sure he was tempted, but I'll admit I was a bit surprised to see he didn't.

 

Maybe he actually took that Week One disaster to heart.  Too early to tell, but Sun. was at least encouraging in that regard.

We needed a hero 

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

The truth is this: Anyone who believes that JA is the problem or even part of the problem, doesn’t know jack. Fans like that don’t deserve him as the all pro Qb of their team. I don’t give a shite if he yells and screams on the sideline like someone’s ideal interpretation of a leader. But when he goes out and gives his best and puts the team in a position to win that’s what counts. People look for problems like Diggs is a diva, Dion is fat, Blah bla bla. 

allen isn’t the problem

 

that doesn’t mean Allen couldn’t do things differently in some situations. 
 

in an important game like this, against a team we may be later meeting in the playoffs and using this as a decider of who gets to host it…. I would’ve been ok with letting him play a little looser once it was clear that the energy levels were off. Doesn’t have to be dumb and taking on a lb 7 yards short or 2 yards past the sticks- but a few runs, and putting the team on his back for a bit wouldn’t have upset me. 

[CincyBillsFan]

10 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Your synopsis isn't accurate for the majority of people here. 99% of Bills fans know Josh Allen is great and the solution not the problem. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve criticism. The Jets game is a great example. 

 

Not many here are trashing Allen. I certainly am not. However, I did say I wish he was more vocal and emotional on the sidelines. I stand by that. A personal preference if you will. In the end, it's probably not a difference maker but a leader sometimes can spark others to play better.

 

It appeared the Bills offense needed a spark while watching the Jags game. Punting six out of your first seven possessions is terrible. Scoring 7 points midway through the 4th quarter is terrible. Maybe a little emotion could have helped? The Jags certainly were playing with emotion. You could feel it via the TV. Even McD stated the Bills couldn't match their energy! WTF!!!That's just not acceptable. Something needed to change way earlier in the game. But it never did until it was too late. 

 

I thought after halftime the Bills would regroup and show some life. Show some attitude and dominance. Nope they immediately punted after getting the ball. They remained stagnant, unemotional, going through the motions, and their sleep walking continued for another quarter and a half. McD continued his clapping on the sidelines and Dorsey continued to make shi! calls. 

 

I digress. What ever audibles or lack of Allen called didn't work for the greater part of the game. That's just as obvious as they come. The offense was bad. Allen was decent to good but not good enough. It was a game where Allen needed to be unleashed, use his legs, extend plays, and play with emotion. Wear the cape sort of speak. The team was dead on offense. It hindered Allen more than helping him. Allen is likely gun shy to try to be Farve like. It was a missed opportunity by Allen and Dorsey. 

 

In short, we Bills fans are soundly behind Allen. No one is saying he stinks or wishes he's in another uniform. Perhaps, we expect too much from our franchise QB. That could be fair to say. But what you are implying is borderline ridiculous. 

 

 

This may apply to you but it doesn't to many of the posts I see on 2BD criticizing Allen. 

 

Obviously no sane football fan can openly trash Allen.  His production and achievements make that impossible for all but the most hateful lunatics. But what these people can do is go after Allen in a classic passive/aggressive way. 

 

I see it in the football media as well and I think it arises from so many people being so wrong about Allen's NFL prospects.  They went way out on the limb telling us Allen could never be an NFL starter let alone an elite franchise QB. 

 

I can't speak to other posters ultimate motivations on criticizing Allen.  But I can see patterns.  I do believe that you are not an Allen hating person criticizing for the sake of criticizing.  I don't agree with you but debating you on Allen is part of what makes 2BD a great place to talk Bills football.  But there are other posters who either have never gotten over trashing Allen on draft day or who are simply trolling Bills fans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beast]

11 hours ago, mrags said:

You saw that as encouraging? I think he looked sulking in the sideline like he was a dog that just had his balls cut off. Would have been nice to see some fire from him. Blame the coaches I guess. Either they miscalculated and should have arrived in London at the beginning of the week, or they could get the team up to play. Either way, it’s on the coaches. 

You can always tell by Josh on the sidelines how the Bills are doing. When it’s going well he’s all smiles and engaged with teammates. When it’s not he sits and has a blank stare.

[JESSEFEFFER]

10 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Genuinely what is ‘hero ball’…this is one of my biggest pet peeves in football discourse right now 😂 the dude had to dodge pass rushers to buy himself time to attack deep to move the ball.  Is that not hero ball?  Is it only called hero ball when it doesn’t work? 
 

If hero ball is finding a way to push the ball down the field when your offensive line is getting smoked we likely needed even more hero ball in that one lol

 I too have noticed that the term has morphed into failed off-script plays.  The successful, off-script, "I've never seen that done before Josh" plays have become so routine that they defy a moniker.  It's just what Josh does.  The new reality is Josh checks down more and runs less.  Completing two passes in a 3 play sequence and not getting a first down seems so outside of his football character.  The offense needed to create more first downs and they were slow to realize how badly they needed them. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by JESSEFEFFER

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, Beast said:

You can always tell by Josh on the sidelines how the Bills are doing. When it’s going well he’s all smiles and engaged with teammates. When it’s not he sits and has a blank stare.

💯 

[The Red King]

Hero ball is Josh thinking he has to do it all himself.  It leads to him running when he doesn't have to and forcing passes in that should never been thrown in the first place.

 

Again, Week One.  I can't make this any clearer.  This should not be so difficult a concept.

 

That aside, the people who ripped Allen for single-handedly blowing Week One due to hero ball are the same ones complaining that he should have played the way he did Week One?  Ridiculous.

 

This thread just proves that the Allen haters will find some reason to criticize him no matter what, even if the current reason makes hypocrites out of them.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

They've taken all the Allen running out of the playbook. 

 

Allen still only has Diggs. 

 

We're the 2017-2021 Packers. 

It's Adams-Rodgers, Allen-Diggs. 

 

That's it. 

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Hero ball is Josh thinking he has to do it all himself.  It leads to him running when he doesn't have to and forcing passes in that should never been thrown in the first place.

 

Again, Week One.  I can't make this any clearer.  This should not be so difficult a concept.

 

That aside, the people who ripped Allen for single-handedly blowing Week One due to hero ball are the same ones complaining that he should have played the way he did Week One?  Ridiculous.

 

This thread just proves that the Allen haters will find some reason to criticize him no matter what, even if the current reason makes hypocrites out of them.

They were up the majority of week one.  Not sure what happened as was at a concert, taped it and once the score was revealed by accident I decided not to watch.

 

Sunday the issue was they were down, unmotivated and the play calls were to a script that was accomplishing nothing. 

 

Again look at the Play by Play and tell me you aren't shaking your head at just how bad it is.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401547228

 

Only come the first TD did they after again starting out with two junk plays (maybe still the same 15 scripted ones?) did they start opening it up.

 

This is exactly when Josh needs to be set free!!!!

Edited October 10, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[The Red King]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

They were up the majority of week one.  Not sure what happened as was at a concert, taped it and once the score was revealed by accident I decided not to watch.

 

Sunday the issue was they were down, unmotivated and the play calls were to a script that was accomplishing nothing. 

 

Only come the first TD did they after again starting out with two junk plays (maybe still the same 15 scripted ones?) did they start opening it up.

 

This is exactly when Josh needs to be set free!!!!

 

Josh had three interceptions trying to force the ball into coverage, and a fumble late in the game.  Yes, he single-handedly cost them the game by trying to do too much when he didn't have to.

Edited October 10, 2023 by The Red King

[ngbills]

20 rushes this season or 4 a game vs his career and recent season average of closer to 8. He is running 50% less. That is significant. 

[Billsfan1972]

46 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Josh had three interceptions trying to force the ball into coverage, and a fumble late in the game.  Yes, he single-handedly cost them the game by trying to do too much when he didn't have to.

I think we've been over that before. It has been discussed ad nauseum.

 

Let's talk Sunday.  Josh was on a leash (& drops were crucial).

[78thealltimegreat]

13 hours ago, The Red King said:

Kinda lost in the mix...but when things went to crap and time was running out, some people worried about Josh going full hero ball.  I'm sure he was tempted, but I'll admit I was a bit surprised to see he didn't.

 

Maybe he actually took that Week One disaster to heart.  Too early to tell, but Sun. was at least encouraging in that regard.

Maybe cause his receivers kept dropping passes and he had no running game a return of hero ball Josh was needed. 

[AlfaBill]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

allen isn’t the problem

 

that doesn’t mean Allen couldn’t do things differently in some situations. 
 

in an important game like this, against a team we may be later meeting in the playoffs and using this as a decider of who gets to host it…. I would’ve been ok with letting him play a little looser once it was clear that the energy levels were off. Doesn’t have to be dumb and taking on a lb 7 yards short or 2 yards past the sticks- but a few runs, and putting the team on his back for a bit wouldn’t have upset me. 

Agreed. But what does that have to do with him getting fired up on the sideline? The assumption is that if he isn’t, he’s not doing his best. That’s wrong and silly. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by AlfaBill