All-22 analysis of Bills/Jags

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean it's a long season so I'm open to how it evolves

 

But even last year I felt that Knox can be used more as a vertical threat.. and right now Kincaid is being a steady check down option

 

But I feel he has so much potential down the seam which we aren't utilizing right now

 

Fitz use the torch the seams with Scott Chandler... Knox and Kincaid could be Killers down the middle

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

16 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The offense is good mostly because of Allen's greatness. His ability to make all the throws, scramble, and extend plays. 

 

The Bills offensive scheme is very vanilla, lacks creativity, motion, is rarely team specific, one play hardly ever sets up another play, and lacks proper gametime adjustments.

 

I feel like the Bills O just sticks with the general offensive plan. Kind of like this is what we do go ahead and try to stop it. They believe they can out execute the other teams D. This works super well against lesser opponents and even good opponents. Number 17 and 14 can carry a team often. 

 

I'm a bit disappointed with the outlook of the offense. I know numbers say otherwise. The Miami game was fantastic and can't be discounted. Dorsey was great too! I fear that might be more of an anomaly. I know others will chime in and give great input as to why my viewpoint is likely inaccurate. Please do because I want to be wrong. 

 

More specifically, I feel like the offense isn't explosive and lacks weapons. There's Diggs and really no one else. The 12 personnel is a joke. The use of Knox and Kincaid for 5 yard passes is anything but brilliant. Davis is scoring TDs and is decent. The drops are what they are. An upgrade is really needed but he's cheap and serviceable. The chemistry with Allen is indisputable. The rest of the WR core is subpar. Still no slot receiver. Still no screen passes. 

 

Another huge concern is the Bills WRs cannot create separation. This is why they are at the bottom of the league for YAC. Without YAC, the offense has to work way way way too hard to score. 

 

Allen is less of a weapon this year because he's not running much. After 5 games his legs have been under utilized. Maybe that's a good thing long term but it certainly makes the Bills O less dynamic. I get it's a balancing act between protecting Allen and winning games. The Jags game sure looked like Allen had a few lanes to get some good yardage. When Allen runs it sure seems to spark the offense. They needed a spark in Sunday. 

 

I was very impressed with the oline until the Jags game. Hopefully, that was just a London travel thing. As we know a good oline makes an offense much much more dangerous. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

PREACH 

[Beck Water]

23 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Why can't we ***** tackle ever?!?! We have to be the worst tackling team in all of football.

 

We have been one of the best tackling teams in football this year.  Even after that terrible horrible no good very bad defensive day where our defensive players were dropping all over the field injured, we're still middle of the pack on missed tackles.  14/32 not worst.

 

Even more important, our top tackler has been our MLB Bernard, not one of our safeties or a CB - which is how it's supposed to be.

 

You think maybe losing one of our top tacklers in Milano early in the game, replacing him with a LB who struggled, and replacing our best 1TDT (Jones) with a 1TDT who has really struggled to tackle (Settle) maybe had an impact?

 

 

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean it's a long season so I'm open to how it evolves

 

But even last year I felt that Knox can be used more as a vertical threat.. and right now Kincaid is being a steady check down option

 

But I feel he has so much potential down the seam which we aren't utilizing right now

 

Fitz use the torch the seams with Scott Chandler... Knox and Kincaid could be Killers down the middle

 

Now that's fair I think. 

 

I'm not deep enough in the weeds to know details of how Carolina much less the Hurricaines used their TE, but I thought they used Olsen in the seam and as a vertical threat, A Lot.

 

7 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

 

Knox yes Kincaid no

Edited October 11, 2023 by Beck Water

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

Almost every other play Knox is helping 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

21 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We have been one of the best tackling teams in football this year.  Even after that terrible horrible no good very bad defensive day where our defensive players were dropping all over the field injured, we're still middle of the pack on missed tackles.  14/32 not worst.

 

Even more important, our top tackler has been our MLB Bernard, not one of our safeties or a CB - which is how it's supposed to be.

 

You think maybe losing one of our top tacklers in Milano early in the game, replacing him with a LB who struggled, and replacing our best 1TDT (Jones) with a 1TDT who has really struggled to tackle (Settle) maybe had an impact?

 

 

 

Now that's fair I think. 

 

I'm not deep enough in the weeds to know details of how Carolina much less the Hurricaines used their TE, but I thought they used Olsen in the seam and as a vertical threat, A Lot.

 

 

Knox yes Kincaid no

I would have to do a deep dive ... but there is a lot of talent at that position.. more than we have had in a long time 

 

The offense should just be scratching it's potential 

[newcam2012]

47 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

That's 12 personnel?

 

Did the Bills really trade up to use their 1st round pick on Kincaid as a blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

Are they paying Knox big money to be a primary blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

I mean they had a whole off season, training camp, and a pre season to get it right. 

 

This 12 personnel set by the Bills isn't anything like I envisioned. Am I missing something? What went wrong or right?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by newcam2012

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:22 PM, HappyDays said:

 

Joe Marino does these all-22 review podcasts every week. Mostly he broke down what happened with the offense in this one. Some highlights:

 

-He said the run game failures were mostly a case of running the ball against bad looks. A lot of times the Jaguars had 8 or even 9 men in the box and we chose to run it anyways. The 2nd and 1 pitch to Cook that we lost like 5 yards on, he said we had 2 OL blocking 3 defenders on that side. Unsurprisingly the unblocked defender made an easy tackle for a loss. I don't know if Allen is supposed to audible out of those looks or what, but Dorsey or Allen have to a better job of punishing defenses for heavy boxes.

 

-As far as the passing game, Joe said that Allen played terrific and really wasn't to blame at all for any of our passing struggles. He said there have been times in the past where he's seen Allen turn down easy completions, but in this game he was executing his reads the way they were designed and manipulating the pocket well.

 

-He blames several of our stalled drives on skill players. Cook dropping a pass on the first drive, Knox dropping a pass on a 3rd down, Davis dropping a pass on a 2nd down, all of these he says the pass catcher definitely should have come down with them. He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch. He says one run should have gone for 8+ yards, but Cook totally misread the leverage and ran away from his blockers outside for a 0 yard gain.

 

-The Jags did a good job using simulated pressures to get advantages on their pass rush opportunities. All our struggles aside, give their defense credit for confusing us and keeping us off balance.

 

-He says more play action passes wouldn't have worked with the way the Jaguars were loading the box and showing heavy pressure looks. I've seen a lot of people criticize Dorsey for a low play action percentage in this game so I thought that was an interesting point.

 

-An alarming statistic he points out - the Jags missed just 3 tackles in this game. We missed 19 tackles... What else can you even say?

 

-Another alarming statistic - only 22% of our receiving yards in this game were YAC, by far the worst in the league for week 5. For context, Joe points out the 2nd lowest was the Ravens at 33%, and most offenses are in the 45%-50% or higher range. The Dolphins were at 78%. Our YAC issues from last year popped up big time in this game and it killed us. No run game and no YAC means literally our entire offense was dependent on Josh Allen's right arm, and that just isn't sustainable.

 

-A few points on defense - He says Elam wasn't quite as bad as he thought watching it live, but he definitely has some technical issues to clean up. Joe thinks the issues are fixable but he isn't at the level of Jackson or Benford right now. Dorian Williams had issues on misdirection plays and missed a couple tackles before McDermott benched him.

 

For a video breakdown of the offensive struggles, Cover1 just put this video out:

 

 

I think the play shown at 5:53 summarizes our issues in this game better than anything. You have 4 pass catchers all end up in the same area of the field so the timing of the play is awful and Allen has nowhere to go with the ball. He extends the play and throws a perfect pass to Knox who then drops it.

 

Way too many missed opportunities in this game. Pass protection, run blocking, situational play calling, skill position players, none of it was good enough.

 

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

What part of this don't you understand?

 

"He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch."

 

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

30 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What part of this don't you understand?

 

"He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch."

 

 

 

 

 

That’s Joe, watch cover 1 video. Diggs had 5-10 yards separation twice with nothing over the top. A better throw in either case and it’s a 27-25 win. Pretty simple 

 

josh about to throw, clean pocket, Diggs has trailer beat by 4-5 yards, no safety. 
 

this is the throw he’s paid $250 million to make a TD throw. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

We need an overhaul of the entire approach on offense, from the roster allocation strategy to the coaching.  I am convinced.

 

This is what I am getting at.  There is just something wrong with this offense.  I don't every remember seeing something like this and it has been happening since Dorsey took over.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Maybe

 

But I'm pretty sure I could comb thru a Chiefs or Lions game and find a similarly poorly spaced play design here or there

 

My position on the offense remains they're doing the best they can wrt personnel

 

Just a guess

 

Id like to see you pull up a play where the Chiefs had 4 receivers running on top of each other like this. 

 

I also wonder when I keep hearing... "that guys open and Josh didn't throw it yadda yadda" stuff, if the receiver is even in the right spot.  I'm beginning to believe they aren't.  How do you trust anything with this offense?

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What part of this don't you understand?

 

"He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch."

 

 

 

 

 

When I saw it live I was surprised Diggs didn't come up with the ball. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm reading that they are using Knox/Kincaid to help Brown in pass protection. 

Everyone complaining about Kincaid running short routes needs to read this lol if you’re just sending tight ends down the seam brown is gonna go full turnstile and nobody will be getting the ball 😂

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

That's 12 personnel?

 

Did the Bills really trade up to use their 1st round pick on Kincaid as a blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

Are they paying Knox big money to be a primary blocker? Or to throw him 5 yard dump offs? 

 

I mean they had a whole off season, training camp, and a pre season to get it right. 

 

This 12 personnel set by the Bills isn't anything like I envisioned. Am I missing something? What went wrong or right?

 

 

 

 

A lot of it is opponents…even the bad teams we’ve played have had a monster or two or three on the defensive line.  Leaving brown one on one with like maxx Crosby just to please the people lurking on the message board looking for a ton of receiving yards out of Kincaid wouldve been ridiculous 😂

 

Vs the jags we got absolutely mauled in the trenches and both our tackles needed a ton of help 

 

I’d let the season play out a little longer…I think people are comparing the offense to Miami’s who will have played probably 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the league and the chargers on top of that who are probably the second worst defense in the league 

 

we’re likely going to light up all those teams too(except for the panthers who we don’t play)

Edited October 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So Diggs open twice deep, under-thrown twice neither resulted in scores, both should be TDs. That the game right there. 

I was there. Unbelievable that it wasn’t a touchdown. He was WIDE open and had to slow down to catch the ball. Nobody gets that open in an NFL game. Josh absolutely needs to hit him in stride. Not sure why people feel it’s sacrilegious to criticize Josh Allen. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was there. Unbelievable that it wasn’t a touchdown. He was WIDE open and had to slow down to catch the ball. Nobody gets that open in an NFL game. Josh absolutely needs to hit him in stride. Not sure why people feel it’s sacrilegious to criticize Josh Allen. 

In the context of a game where dudes were dropping wide open passes and the offensive line was getting flagged all day, it’s pretty hard to criticize a qb for throwing a 50-60 yard rope and hitting his guy after having to reset in the pocket.

 

 People makin it sound like he could just step into that one from a clean pocket but that is not at all what happened lol

 

had to drop back right into his own end zone and throw that one over a linebacker jumping right in his face which prevented him from fully stepping into it.  Certainly wasn’t a perfect throw but it was a great one.  He threw that ball nearly 60 yards virtually flat footed.  Watch that short stride he has to take in the replay I’m not even sure he could’ve physically thrown it any farther like that.  It looked like he was loading up to throw an absolute bomb and the time ran out on it to me 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[newcam2012]

28 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

A lot of it is opponents…even the bad teams we’ve played have had a monster or two or three on the defensive line.  Leaving brown one on one with like maxx Crosby just to please the people lurking on the message board looking for a ton of receiving yards out of Kincaid wouldve been ridiculous 😂

 

Vs the jags we got absolutely mauled in the trenches and both our tackles needed a ton of help 

 

I’d let the season play out a little longer…I think people are comparing the offense to Miami’s who will have played probably 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the league and the chargers on top of that who are probably the second worst defense in the league 

 

we’re likely going to light up all those teams too(except for the panthers who we don’t play)

It's not like the Bills opponents have been juggernauts. Jets D is the only good D they have faced. Jags are middling, Wash appears bad, Raiders stink, and Miami's isn't good with no Ramsey and Philips. 

 

At some point, if the have to constantly protect Brown with a TE then the 12 personnel really isn't all that dynamic from a passing point of view. It really doesn't stress a defense like it's supposed to. 

[SoCal Deek]

53 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

In the context of a game where dudes were dropping wide open passes and the offensive line was getting flagged all day, it’s pretty hard to criticize a qb for throwing a 50-60 yard rope and hitting his guy after having to reset in the pocket.

 

 People makin it sound like he could just step into that one from a clean pocket but that is not at all what happened lol

 

had to drop back right into his own end zone and throw that one over a linebacker jumping right in his face which prevented him from fully stepping into it.  Certainly wasn’t a perfect throw but it was a great one.  He threw that ball nearly 60 yards virtually flat footed.  Watch that short stride he has to take in the replay I’m not even sure he could’ve physically thrown it any farther like that.  It looked like he was loading up to throw an absolute bomb and the time ran out on it to me 

Sure! That sounds about right. I’m sure it is. It has to be. 

[thenorthremembers]

13 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes, Josh is at fault sometimes, receiver is at fault sometimes, the route design is also at fault sometimes. There is no singular blame.

I can get on board with this.  Especially adding in the play design portion.

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I was there. Unbelievable that it wasn’t a touchdown. He was WIDE open and had to slow down to catch the ball. Nobody gets that open in an NFL game. Josh absolutely needs to hit him in stride. Not sure why people feel it’s sacrilegious to criticize Josh Allen. 

No one is saying it's sacrilegious to criticize Allen.  When you throw that out you lose all credibility in my eyes.  It reduces you to being a troll.

 

BTW, WR's break wide open deep all the time but for a variety of reasons are seldom even the recipients of a completed let alone hit in stride for a TD.  On that play a PERFECT pass is a TD.  A GREAT pass results in a 50 yard completion.  Allen made a  great pass.  Period end of story.  I wish he had made the perfect pass there but he didn't. So what.