All-22 analysis of Bills/Jags

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I can’t get too down on Diggs, who is so far having the best season of his career. He is on pace for 132 receptions, 1768 yards, and 17 TDs. I expect it to tail off due to weather, but he has been playing like a first-team all pro this season.

im not down on diggs at all

[HoofHearted]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

@HoofHearted

 

I knew I had an old thread on it and I found it 

 

you are the last comment page 1 

 

And tho I don't think the NFL is playing it off as new or innovative because it's not new

 

I certainly don't think it's as easy to execute at a high level ... some teams just don't have the right guys... Tre and Dane and Micah and Poyer and benford are very heady players... cerebral... they fit it perfectly 

 

You need a defensive back field that is playing in cohesion, and has great field awareness, play recognition... saban has run it with success at Alabama because he recruits super heady cornerbacks.. the best/smartest HS corners and safeties in the country... perfect scheme fit 

 

St John bosco's can run it because they have five division one defensive backs ... I could run it at canisius because they have the best players in buffalo ... But I don't think it would work at JFK because they don't have the right guys or football ability 

 

Some NFL teams have super athletic corners who aren't thinkers ... just turn hips and run ... That team might not find as much success in palms as a team that value cerebral corners

 

 

I disagree. Basically every High School and College in America runs some variation of 2 read coverage. Every NFL team runs some variation of it as well. It’s not an intellectually challenging scheme just takes reps like anything else.

 

As an aside Saban doesn’t run a ton of Palms - he’s made his name through his Match 3 coverages. Completely different.

Edited October 10, 2023 by HoofHearted

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

I disagree. Basically every High School and College in America runs some variation of 2 read coverage. Every NFL team runs some variation of it as well. It’s not an intellectually challenging scheme just takes reps like anything else.

 

As an aside Saban doesn’t run a ton of Palms - he’s made his name through his Match 3 coverages. Completely different.

Im not saying saban runs palms as his go to ... just that he has ran it over the years which he definitely has utilized

 

And I think you're confusing.. the ability to run something.. and the ability to run something well

 

Every team can run the read option.. it doesn't mean they all do it successfully... There's plenty of high school teams that can hardly execute quarters... And give up 40 a game... They're not executing palms

 

There are plenty of teams that when they run 2 read they look lost ... It's not a guarantee to be executed

 

As a defensive coordinator you should understand that... There's plenty of things the Bills defense does well... And then there's things they try to do that they don't do well

 

I've seen plenty of teams over 20 years execute palms terribly... So terribly they shouldn't play it

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[HoofHearted]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Im not saying saban runs palms as his go to ... just that he has ran it over the years which he definitely has utilized

 

And I think you're confusing.. the ability to run something.. and the ability to run something well

 

Every team can run the read option.. it doesn't mean they all do it successfully... There's plenty of high school teams that can hardly execute quarters... They're not executing palms

 

There are plenty of teams that when they run 2 read they look lost ... It's not a guarantee to be executed

 

As a defensive coordinator you should understand that... There's plenty of things but Bill's defense does well... And then there's things they try to do that they don't do well

 

 

Sure. If your players suck it doesn’t matter what you run - it’s going to suck.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Sure. If your players suck it doesn’t matter what you run - it’s going to suck.

Well that was my point

 

You need to have the players to execute... 

 

There's plenty of teams who try to execute things that they don't have the dogs to do

 

When our entire secondary went down last year we didn't execute it as well and we had to get more basic 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

The best the Bills have ever been in YAC since Josh took over as QB is 14th.  So it makes more sense to you that they consistently sign wideouts who can't separate for the last 6 years than it is to say Josh's throwing style doesn't lead to YAC yardage?

 

They've had how many different tight ends and wideouts since 2018?  I can count 10 without trying, and all of those guys can't separate?   Yes, I am repeating my opinion on this redundantly, because it comes up multiple times a year.  

 

Yes, Josh is at fault sometimes, receiver is at fault sometimes, the route design is also at fault sometimes. There is no singular blame.

[WideNine]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes, Josh is at fault sometimes, receiver is at fault sometimes, the route design is also at fault sometimes. There is no singular blame.

 

I blame Goodell for using our Bills as an a scheduling experiment.

 

Hard to believe he was born in Jamestown. Heck, I rode my bike there as a kid.

 

No home town help coming from that guy.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

@HoofHearted

 

Saban truly is the greatest college coach and defensive mind in the modern era of college

 

His cover 3 match and cover 7 match principles have created his defensive dynasty but really cannot be replicated by lots of teams who try and copy 

 

His attention to detail on the defensive side... His ability to recruit and develop talent for his system... And get the players into the right technique is second to none.. he dictates offenses not vice versa

 

Georgia certainly is building their program in the saban mold ... and since it's Kirby smart it makes sense 

 

But if you gonna run pattern matching zone coverages it better be your bread and butter ... like saban or McDermott and you better have the dogs 

 

A staple you can run in your sleep because rn even in D1... there are teams that are lost defensively when they go zone 

 

Players just can't execute 

 

Of course saban has perfected it along stops at Toledo and Michigan State and LSU and Alabama

 

There is a lot of good young minds in football on the defensive side but Saban has the mold for sure 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Buffalo716

[harmonkillebrew]

21 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

Josh is a great but flawed quarterback. All his physical tools are ideal. He has, and still can (a lot of the time), rely heavily on these tools. He hasn’t had to be a student of the game beyond what is normal (for starting nfl quarterbacks). If he wants to go to the next level he has to develop this aspect of his game. He has to make his changeup as good as his fastball if you will. 
 

These shortcomings are also on coaching. The coordinator and the qb are a package. 
 

These criticisms are in the context of josh already being a great nfl quarterback. 

That's not the take away at all.  The take away from this game is that Josh needs better coaching and skilled players. 

 

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

That's not the take away at all.  The take away from this game is that Josh needs better coaching and skilled players. 

 

 

Yeah on balance my biggest takeaway from this game is that we had an elite QB play a terrific game, which multiple sources and grading systems agree on, and we still only scored 7 points for the first 52 minutes of the game... I mean that is a really really bad sign about the offensive structure and supporting cast. Hopefully it was just jet lag leading to a poor performance. The alternative is that teams with decent DLs and a good coaching staff are going to easily stifle our offense, which means we are toast in the playoffs.

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah on balance my biggest takeaway from this game is that we had an elite QB play a terrific game, which multiple sources and grading systems agree on, and we still only scored 7 points for the first 52 minutes of the game... I mean that is a really really bad sign about the offensive structure and supporting cast. Hopefully it was just jet lag leading to a poor performance. The alternative is that teams with decent DLs and a good coaching staff are going to easily stifle our offense, which means we are toast in the playoffs.

Can't get over the fact that the Chiefs were able to beat them only scoring 17 tbh

 

Doesn't make sense

[90sBills]

20 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

Shhhh. It's all Josh's fault

Pfffft. It’s never ever Allen’s fault. He’s flawless!

18 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

I agree. The argument I’m making is nuanced or maybe not as obvious as the failures you’ve pointed out. I expect people to disagree with me as they see ANY criticism of josh as sacrilegious. 

How dare you even insinuate that he’s anything but the best and most perfect qb in the history of the NFL. 

[Just in Atlanta]

Marino's all 22 analysis makes sense.

 

What killed us? In potential order of importance:

 

1. Dropped passes. 
2. Awful YAC.
3. Missed tackles (19!).
4. Bad running (Cook in particular). 
5. Injuries
6. Bad run design into a loaded box (Dorsey). 
7. Poor officiating (but on both teams).

 

Four out of seven (bolded) of these can be traced to the fact that these guys were visibly not juiced to play. It sounds silly to even say that, with millions on the line, but the ridiculous amount of missed tackles, low YAC, poor run decisions and dropped balls were probably directly correlated to the poor decision to arrive in London on Friday. 

 

In a game of inches, just one play can mean the difference. Our offense only seemed alive for the last part of the first and second halves. 

 

Side point 1: I agree with Marino that Josh was really good in this game. 

 

Side point 2: As the all 22 showed, Elam was not that bad ... and actually flashed some solid upside. Wrong angles at times. He was picked on, yes. But he's making rookie mistakes. Despite being an NFL fan for 40 years, I'll never understand how some fans come away with such strong takes based on a few seconds of camera footage in live games. 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I can’t get too down on Diggs, who is so far having the best season of his career. He is on pace for 132 receptions, 1768 yards, and 17 TDs. I expect it to tail off due to weather, but he has been playing like a first-team all pro this season.

I'm not down on Diggs at all.  The guy has been elite every year he's been a Bill.  He's off to a great start this season to.  He has earned the right to drop a pass now and then just like Allen has earned the right to make a bad throw. 

 

My point on that play was that there were some posters throwing it out as an example of a bad Allen throw when in fact by NFL standards it was a great throw that traveled 65 - 70 yards in the air.   If you go back to 2020 when we beat the Raiders Diggs made a high point catch on a ball that was almost a carbon copy of the throw Allen made on Sunday with the exception that the Sunday throw was 10 yards further.

 

 

40 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah on balance my biggest takeaway from this game is that we had an elite QB play a terrific game, which multiple sources and grading systems agree on, and we still only scored 7 points for the first 52 minutes of the game... I mean that is a really really bad sign about the offensive structure and supporting cast. Hopefully it was just jet lag leading to a poor performance. The alternative is that teams with decent DLs and a good coaching staff are going to easily stifle our offense, which means we are toast in the playoffs.

This is a great and disturbing point.  But given the offenses performance over the previous 3 weeks I'm going with jet lag.

 

 

13 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Pfffft. It’s never ever Allen’s fault. He’s flawless!

How dare you even insinuate that he’s anything but the best and most perfect qb in the history of the NFL. 

No one is saying this.  But it's enlightening that you try to claim people are.

 

[Scott7975]

24 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Can't get over the fact that the Chiefs were able to beat them only scoring 17 tbh

 

Doesn't make sense

 

I think the difference is KC defense got off the field on 3rd down.  As good as our defense was at not letting them score, they still let them drive the field or at least flip the field. By the time our O finally started scoring, our D was gassed and depleted.

[90sBills]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No one is saying this.  But it's enlightening that you try to claim people are.

 

The next time you have any criticism of Allen will be the first time. And it would truly be an enlightened moment.

 

Btw…I’m not blaming this loss on Allen. It’s a team loss. The offense just couldn’t get going despite a valiant effort by the shorthanded defense.

[Scott7975]

Whose to blame for this garbage?  This spacing happens every game in multiple areas of the field going back to last year.  I been making comments on it all season but no one seems to care lol.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Whose to blame for this garbage?  This spacing happens every game in multiple areas of the field going back to last year.  I been making comments on it all season but no one seems to care lol.

 

 

The concept is simple but effective

 

The execution was terrible.. you're getting a rub route on a mesh ... And the hook on the sit down should be between zone defenders.. so it should beat man and zone

 

The running back is a nice outlet and the out route should clear space

 

Just terrible execution

Edited October 10, 2023 by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Whose to blame for this garbage?  This spacing happens every game in multiple areas of the field going back to last year.  I been making comments on it all season but no one seems to care lol.

 

 

That's got to be on Knox 

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The concept is simple but effective

 

The execution was terrible.. you're getting a rub route on a mesh ... And the hook on the sit down should be between zone defenders.. so it should beat man and zone

 

The running back is a nice outlet and the out route should clear space

 

Just terrible execution

 

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's got to be on Knox 

 

You can see this type of stuff almost every game. If it's execution then why are these guys so bad?