All-22 analysis of Bills/Jags

[C.Biscuit97]

42 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

So we're back to teams show us a look and we throw our hands up and stop running the ball. 

 

3 attempts in the second half (2 of which were Shotgun draws to Cook for negative yards) and I'm supposed to think that Jacksonville just "took that away"? 

I think that’s a good point. It’s frustrating when runs aren’t going away and it seems like you are throwing away a down. But you still need the threat of attempted runs to set up play action. 
 

also, even when it’s not working, d linemen (and conversely o linemen) would rather just tee off on passing situations. Run block can wear out a defense. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

How many air yards was the pass?  There is a limit to how far even Allen can throw the ball.  In the article that Happy attached it says "70 yards" but I didn't think it traveled that far.  But anything over 60 is the realistic maximum distance for even a guy like Allen.  And again that was a very catchable ball that a lot of the WR's in the NFL make.  In fact I suspect that Diggs catches that exact same pass 4 out of every 5 times.

 

 

I don't know if Diggs does tbh because he's not a big contested catch guy

 

But AJ Brown, Hill, Adams etc are coming down w that ball a decent amount of the time and if not they're certainly not letting it go for an INT

 

edit for photo

Edited October 10, 2023 by GoBills808

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The first half of this I agree with. It is a low percentage throw and I don't mind him taking the chance, he underthrew it but it is a small and insignificant mistake compared to other things that went on in that game. Doesn't stop me believing Josh played well, certainly well enough to win, on Sunday. 

 

I disagree on the 2nd half. The momentum of the two players at the point that they compete for the football was not equitable. Diggs was at a specific advantage. I'd expect a DB launching into the air from a full speed sprint to win that ball 4 / 5 against a receiver who has slowed and is trying to come back for the football. I'm sure there would be a scientific formula one could do that demonstrates the advantage the DB had. 

If you've ever played wr you would know this is wrong 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

If you've ever played wr you would know this is wrong 

 

I have never played wide receiver. I am open to someone explaining why it is wrong. But just based on the basic laws of physics it is clear to me the DB had far more momentum with which to propel himself into the air than Diggs. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have never played wide receiver. I am open to someone explaining why it is wrong. But just based on the basic laws of physics it is clear to me the DB had far more momentum with which to propel himself into the air than Diggs. 

Catching downfield requires a lot of concentration in addition to great body control

 

The wr who has tracked the ball and gathers himself to go up is almost always in a better position to make a play than the DB who has been sprinting w head turned and his momentum going away...which works against catching a pass

 

It's easier to catch a pass downfield the slower you as a receiver are moving, your momentum away from the ball works against you

 

 

 

[WideNine]

5 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Here’s the disconnect - play action opens up the middle of the field by pulling defenders into the box. Because of this they are now responsible for an immediate gap in the run game and thus have to play run first. This is why play action is successful because it can pull backers and box safeties toward the LoS. It has zero effect on corners eyes or, in the case of what we saw from Jacksonville, MOF Closed Safeties. They’re working their pass keys regardless of the action. Because they were in MOF Closed coverage the majority of the day there wasn’t anything to take advantage of in the middle of the field by using play action which is why every time we ran it except one the pass went outside where, like I said, the corners are just playing coverage as normal based on their key read.

 

Hope that clears it up for you.

 

I can live with that and especially DBs having their responsibilities, were they rolling safety help over the top or playing quarters.

 

I don't have All 22 so going off memory. I thought I saw a few single high looks with the SS in the box.

 

Allen stays on schedule more and completes more passes from under center, not sure if anyone knows why - perhaps less to do with defensive reactions and more that he is just wired that way.

 

We lost quite a bit in the trenches, but I thought that was more due to simulated pressures and how well the Jags diagnosed our protection schemes and could overload sides without having to send the extra rusher although they sprinkled in blitzes.

 

Their Josh Allen is a Swiss army knife - hand on the ground bull rushing and winning vs OL, or wide with speed, or off the ball covering he came as billed.

 

They did a good job attacking gaps forcing double teams while freeing up rushers on stunts.

 

They did a good job of containing the edges and forcing Allen to operate in the pocket or step up.

 

I said it in another thread they put on a clinic and our OL had their hands full.

 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

I’ve done everything from DI down as a defensive coordinator.

 

As far as the content stuff - I don’t usually have a ton of time to watch most of it. I’ve seen some Cover 1 stuff and I think I’ve said this in the past - they do a good job of regurgitating football terms and giving you maybe a general idea of what’s going on but I’m not sure how much football they actually know. Erik does a better job offensively (probably because there’s more information out there about offense) than he does talking defense. He can tell you general concept names and reads on offense but I’ve never heard him get into specific rules for positions. Defensively he often gets coverages wrong or says players are doing things on “instincts” when really it’s just players playing fast within the rules of the defense whether that be fits or coverages. I don’t know much about the other guys.

 

Scheme is tough to learn without being in it. Coaches are pretty protective of their stuff so if something gets out it’s no longer being used or taught that way anymore. That being said there is a ton of information out there. It’s kind of like a grab bag though - you have to piece together stuff like a puzzle. There aren’t just breakdowns of entire schemes all in one place. Additionally there isn’t a common language spoken when it comes to football. Everyone kind of has their own name for things which can get convoluted when first trying to learn because you’ll hear multiple terms for the same thing depending on what information you’re looking at.

 

If it was easier to upload images on to this site I’d do more in depth breakdown stuff more often but it’s kind of a pain in the butt trying to get multiple images into one post. Maybe someone has a work-around?

 

The best way would be to host the photos somewhere else. Even a twitter post and then just copy the image link and paste it here.  Unfortunately the file size for even one photo here is ridiculously small.

[HoofHearted]

6 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I can live with that and especially DBs having their responsibilities, were they rolling safety help over the top or playing quarters.

 

I don't have All 22 so going off memory. I thought I saw a few single high looks with the SS in the box.

 

Allen stays on schedule more and completes more passes from under center, not sure if anyone knows why - perhaps less to do with defensive reactions and more that he is just wired that way.

 

We lost quite a bit in the trenches, but I thought that was more due to simulated pressures and how well the Jags diagnosed our protection schemes and could overload sides without having to send the extra rusher although they sprinkled in blitzes.

 

Their Josh Allen is a Swiss army knife - hand on the ground bull rushing and winning vs OL, or wide with speed, or off the ball covering he came as billed.

 

They did a good job attacking gaps forcing double teams while freeing up rushers on stunts.

 

They did a good job of containing the edges and forcing Allen to operate in the pocket or step up.

 

I said it in another thread they put on a clinic and our OL had their hands full.

 

 

 

 

They played primarily 3, but did play some quarters and two.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

People keep pounding on the YAC point, its the QB, not the wideouts.   Its not something that is ever going to change with Josh as the QB.  He is often throwing off platform.   How many times have you seen our wideouts hit in stride allowing them YAC?   Now think of how many times you've seen our wideouts catching the ball low or late or while they are already on the ground?

 

I love Josh.  Wouldnt trade him for pretty much anyone in the league, but the low YAC is a direct result of his playing style.

 

That may be sometimes true, it certainly isn't always true.  People like to parrot stuff until it becomes fact.  These receivers have a hard time creating separation. Especially in the shorter/quick range. They aren't going to get many YAC balls when that is the case.

[34-78-83]

16 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I’ve caught a bit of Marino and Turner from time to time: I am curious…what are their credentials regarding actual football acumen aside from having shows that are dedicated to breaking down film? 

Turner was a football coach, and also is an alumnus of The Scouting Academy, and worked as a National Scout for NDT Scouting

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

Josh is a great but flawed quarterback. All his physical tools are ideal. He has, and still can (a lot of the time), rely heavily on these tools. He hasn’t had to be a student of the game beyond what is normal (for starting nfl quarterbacks). If he wants to go to the next level he has to develop this aspect of his game. He has to make his changeup as good as his fastball if you will. 
 

These shortcomings are also on coaching. The coordinator and the qb are a package. 
 

These criticisms are in the context of josh already being a great nfl quarterback. 

This is absolute bollocks haha if anything, he trusted his progressions and reads TOO MUCH in this game. He had to improvise more and find big chunks of yardage because stringing long drives together with two of his tackles playing terribly and receivers dropping balls was impossible. 
 

even though this was a loss I feel like it’s more evidence that he could be the best in the league.  He was virtually lights out and pretty much everyone on the field let him down…unless you want to harp on the fact that he slightly underthrew a 70 yard laser under pressure. 

I also don’t really see it talked about, maybe because they’re the jags which somehow keeps him from being a household name but other josh Allen is an absolute beast.  He pretty much wrecked our offensive line single handedly  
 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't know if Diggs does tbh because he's not a big contested catch guy

 

But AJ Brown, Hill, Adams etc are coming down w that ball a decent amount of the time and if not they're certainly not letting it go for an INT

 

edit for photo

It’s the way they landed. Yes it’s on Diggs, should have completed the catch, but the way the CB landed he had all the leverage on the ball, Diggs had none. 
 

Pure luck for the CB. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

It’s the way they landed. Yes it’s on Diggs, should have completed the catch, but the way the CB landed he had all the leverage on the ball, Diggs had none. 
 

Pure luck for the CB. 

Jefferson did the same thing but in reverse to Cam Lewis last year, it's not just luck

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't know if Diggs does tbh because he's not a big contested catch guy

 

But AJ Brown, Hill, Adams etc are coming down w that ball a decent amount of the time and if not they're certainly not letting it go for an INT

 

edit for photo

That’s gotta go down for a joint possession at worst I still cannot believe that play…looked like diggs caught it and he lost the wrestle for the football on the way down 

 

have to say though if he wasn’t gonna hang on to it an interception was probably the second best option lol josh is slowly turning into an elite punter too 😂

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

So we're back to teams show us a look and we throw our hands up and stop running the ball. 

 

3 attempts in the second half (2 of which were Shotgun draws to Cook for negative yards) and I'm supposed to think that Jacksonville just "took that away"? 

I’d normally agree with you but jax was taking this a bit to the extreme.  I think the way they were loading the box we probably ran the ball too much if anything if you could believe that lol but we likely still wanted play action to remain somewhat effective.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Jefferson did the same thing but in reverse to Cam Lewis last year, it's not just luck

Those are apples and orange's.  Jefferson is the bigger, stronger WR who took it out of a smaller DBs hands who was trying to catch it instead of trying to knock it down. 
 

Diggs is bigger than that Jacksonville DB, the way the landed and rolled on the ground the DB had the leverage to come away with the ball the instant he would have needed to. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

That’s gotta go down for a joint possession at worst I still cannot believe that play…looked like diggs caught it and he lost the wrestle for the football on the way down 

 

have to say though if he wasn’t gonna hang on to it an interception was probably the second best option lol josh is slowly turning into an elite punter too 😂

I remember the Rams game couple yrs back they gave the INT where receiver (think it was Knox but not sure) and DB both came down w the ball too

 

And yes for all intents and purposes that was a punt

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

That’s gotta go down for a joint possession at worst I still cannot believe that play…looked like diggs caught it and he lost the wrestle for the football on the way down 

 

have to say though if he wasn’t gonna hang on to it an interception was probably the second best option lol josh is slowly turning into an elite punter too 😂

The play was 3-15 and the Jags got trapped inside the 10. There is no guarantee that the 4th down punt would have produced a better result than that.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I remember the Rams game couple yrs back they gave the INT where receiver (think it was Knox but not sure) and DB both came down w the ball too

 

And yes for all intents and purposes that was a punt

Haha yea I was chuckling about that as I was posting…still an absolute nonsense call. I believe it was Tyler kroft and that ended up sparking a huge rams comeback 

[GoBills808]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Those are apples and orange's.  Jefferson is the bigger, stronger WR who took it out of a smaller DBs hands who was trying to catch it instead of trying to knock it down. 
 

Diggs is bigger than that Jacksonville DB, the way the landed and rolled on the ground the DB had the leverage to come away with the ball the instant he would have needed to. 

I'm saying there are guys who have the strength to make that catch at a certain frequency and imo Diggs isnt one of them, his strengths lie elsewhere

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I'm saying there are guys who have the strength to make that catch at a certain frequency and imo Diggs isnt one of them, his strengths lie elsewhere

Normally I’d agree, but I’m pretty sure the DB who won is a very small CB