All-22 analysis of Bills/Jags

[Franco_92]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Erik Turner is just an amateur who has a lot of time and good video editing tools. A professional like @HoofHearted will make him look clueless on occasion but for video content he's the best we got.

 

Joe Marino at least was a founding member of a professional scouting organization so I think he has more credentials than Turner, but he hasn't worked for any NFL teams as far as I know.

What's hoofhearted's back story? He obviously knows a lot

[Shortchaz]

29 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Oh please.  This is utter garbage.  Throwing out Allen's contract as reason that he should never screw up (if he even did screw up) pre snap calls is ridiculous. Claiming that because Allen makes more money then the entire coaching staff means he should do the coaching to?  This is either trolling or crazy talk.

 

Allen is a bargain from a contract standpoint.  He's what the 10th highest paid QB while easily being the 2nd best QB in the NFL.  Judas Priest.

 

 

The point I was making about salary is that he IS the boss.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

What's hoofhearted's back story? He obviously knows a lot

Can’t confirm, but rumor is that it’s Ken Dorsey burner account 

[nedboy7]

Marino today talked about how in hindsight going to London on Thursday was a huge mistake.  Clearly the players were tired. And when fatigued technique and fundamentals get compromised and you end up w bad play and even worse injuries.  

[Shortchaz]

41 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What part of this alt 22 review did you not understand?

 

-As far as the passing game, Joe said that Allen played terrific and really wasn't to blame at all for any of our passing struggles. He said there have been times in the past where he's seen Allen turn down easy completions, but in this game he was executing his reads the way they were designed and manipulating the pocket well.

 

-He blames several of our stalled drives on skill players. Cook dropping a pass on the first drive, Knox dropping a pass on a 3rd down, Davis dropping a pass on a 2nd down, all of these he says the pass catcher definitely should have come down with them. He also blames Diggs for the interception after watching a few replays. He says the ball was a tad underthrown but it went 70 yards in the air and Diggs gets both hands on it - that's a situation where he says Diggs simply has to win the catch

You conveniently left out the first part of the review. How’s your reading comprehension? 
 

-He said the run game failures were mostly a case of running the ball against bad looks. A lot of times the Jaguars had 8 or even 9 men in the box and we chose to run it anyways. The 2nd and 1 pitch to Cook that we lost like 5 yards on, he said we had 2 OL blocking 3 defenders on that side. Unsurprisingly the unblocked defender made an easy tackle for a loss. I don't know if Allen is supposed to audible out of those looks or what, but Dorsey or Allen have to a better job of punishing defenses for heavy boxes.

 

7 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Yes SOME. But you know some of what happens wrong in the Chiefs offense is Mahomes's fault. Is he "flawed" to? Josh is not perfect. But to say offensive struggles are 100% on him which is what you said, then you are ignorant. Dropped passes are not on Josh. Bad oline protection is not on Josh. A RB fumbling a ball is not on Josh. Yes, you are very ignorant if you think that's the case

Most everything in this is incorrect. 

[Buffalo03]

12 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

You conveniently left out the first part of the review. How’s your reading comprehension? 
 

-He said the run game failures were mostly a case of running the ball against bad looks. A lot of times the Jaguars had 8 or even 9 men in the box and we chose to run it anyways. The 2nd and 1 pitch to Cook that we lost like 5 yards on, he said we had 2 OL blocking 3 defenders on that side. Unsurprisingly the unblocked defender made an easy tackle for a loss. I don't know if Allen is supposed to audible out of those looks or what, but Dorsey or Allen have to a better job of punishing defenses for heavy boxes.

 

Most everything in this is incorrect. 

Ok. I did read that but again, how many plays do Chiefs RBs get stuffed behind the line because of missed blocked assignments or wrong lineups? And is that Mahomes's fault? Is Mahomes flawed? and what do you mean most of what I said is incorrect? You literally said if the offense struggles, it's because of Josh. But there are tons of things that make an offense struggle. Not just Josh because he is the QB. That's where you're ignorant and that IS what you said so don't give me bs

Edited October 10, 2023 by Buffalo03

[CincyBillsFan]

29 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

You conveniently left out the first part of the review. How’s your reading comprehension? 
 

-He said the run game failures were mostly a case of running the ball against bad looks. A lot of times the Jaguars had 8 or even 9 men in the box and we chose to run it anyways. The 2nd and 1 pitch to Cook that we lost like 5 yards on, he said we had 2 OL blocking 3 defenders on that side. Unsurprisingly the unblocked defender made an easy tackle for a loss. I don't know if Allen is supposed to audible out of those looks or what, but Dorsey or Allen have to a better job of punishing defenses for heavy boxes.

 

Most everything in this is incorrect. 

There are all sorts of reasons the run game can get blown up.  The alt 22 reviews conclusion on Allen was:

 

"Allen played terrific and really wasn't to blame at all for any of our passing struggles."

 

What part of Allen played terrific do you have hard time understanding?

[Ga boy]

37 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Marino today talked about how in hindsight going to London on Thursday was a huge mistake.  Clearly the players were tired. And when fatigued technique and fundamentals get compromised and you end up w bad play and even worse injuries.  

I agree with most who say it was a mistake, but I wonder if the players voted to stay with their families longer.  It sounds like having the players vote would be a McD kind of thing, since he’s a players coach.  Still a mistake.

[CincyBillsFan]

43 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

I agree. The argument I’m making is nuanced or maybe not as obvious as the failures you’ve pointed out. I expect people to disagree with me as they see ANY criticism of josh as sacrilegious. 

Nuanced!  Oh please.  The only "nuance" I see is that you're going after Allen from a different perspective.  The fact is that if you were to list the top 10 reasons why the Bills lost to the Jags on Sunday Allen not changing a couple of running plays based on pre snap looks would not be one of them. So yea I guess it is nuanced.

 

Legit criticism of Allen is fine.  But you people come up with the weakest, least relevant and flat out strangest stuff to go after Allen with. And then when Bills fans on a Bills message board push back and call you guys out we're labeled "homers" or that we view any criticism of Allen as "sacrilege".

 

 

 

[Shortchaz]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Nuanced!  Oh please.  The only "nuance" I see is that you're going after Allen from a different perspective.  The fact is that if you were to list the top 10 reasons why the Bills lost to the Jags on Sunday Allen not changing a couple of running plays based on pre snap looks would not be one of them. So yea I guess it is nuanced.

 

Legit criticism of Allen is fine.  But you people come up with the weakest, least relevant and flat out strangest stuff to go after Allen with. And then when Bills fans on a Bills message board push back and call you guys out we're labeled "homers" or that we view any criticism of Allen as "sacrilege".

 

 

 

Well, it was the FIRST SECTION of the ORIGINAL POST…..

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

Well, it was the FIRST SECTION of the ORIGINAL POST…..

Yea and you made it all about what Allen wasn't doing right.  Which wasn't what the guy was saying in that first paragraph.

 

 

[Shortchaz]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Yea and you made it all about what Allen wasn't doing right.  Which wasn't what the guy was saying in that first paragraph.

 

 

the offense struggled. The offense struggled for many reasons. One of those was the running game stunk. One of the reasons the running game stunk is because Jacksonville was stuffing the box and Allen didn’t change the play or the direction of the run. They ran directly into Jacksonville’s strength. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Shortchaz said:

the offense struggled. The offense struggled for many reasons. One of those was the running game stunk. One of the reasons the running game stunk is because Jacksonville was stuffing the box and Allen didn’t change the play or the direction of the run. They ran directly into Jacksonville’s strength. 

That's almost as many degrees of separation as exists between everything and Kevin Bacon.

 

 

[Shortchaz]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

That's almost as many degrees of separation as exists between everything and Kevin Bacon.

 

 

It’s the entire point of the FIRST SECTION of the original post. 

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

It’s the entire point of the FIRST SECTION of the original post. 

 

I'm sorry but when you say stuff like Allens "recognition and anticipation are not great" after we have literally just watched him go for multiple weeks showing arguably the best recognition and anticipation in the world, you sound sort of ridiculous.

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

 

 

As far as the play action and under center stuff that Cover 1 is drooling over - there was only one play action where we took advantage of the action. Everything else was outside or downfield which had no impact by the fact we were under center or showing some type of action.

This is a bad take.

 

When you consistently get more yards on average when executing under center both passing and in your running game why would you not lean into that with more reps?

 

Most anyone knows play action is specifically intended to free up passes downfield. So I am not following your logic that because plays were made downfield there was "no impact by the fact we were under center showing some type of action" - huh?

 

Not sure why folks get so wrapped around the axle with the fact that Allen is more effective operating under center like somehow that cripples him.

 

Maybe not every QB, but the numbers for Allen and this offense jump when he does operate under center. They should do it more no drooling needed.

 

 

 

 

[Shortchaz]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I'm sorry but when you say stuff like Allens "recognition and anticipation are not great" after we have literally just watched him go for multiple weeks showing arguably the best recognition and anticipation in the world, you sound sort of ridiculous.

It’s not all I said. I explicitly stated that it’s in the context of him being a great quarterback.

 

It’s an area he could improve was the entire point. 

 

 

[Simon]

Just now, Shortchaz said:

It’s an area he could improve was the entire point. 

 

Your point is that even though he has recently been throwing with better recognition and anticipation than probably any QB in the world, he needs to improve that aspect of his game.

Yeah, I'm just going to stroll away from this one and hope that you don't further contaminate a very interesting thread with more utter nonsense.

[Shortchaz]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Your point is that even though he has recently been throwing with better recognition and anticipation than probably any QB in the world, he needs to improve that aspect of his game.

Yeah, I'm just going to stroll away from this one and hope that you don't further contaminate a very interesting thread with more utter nonsense.

Absolutely hilarious. 
 

I’m not talking about the passing game at all. 
 

we had 29 rushing yards yesterday….

 

[HappyDays]

33 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

the offense struggled. The offense struggled for many reasons. One of those was the running game stunk. One of the reasons the running game stunk is because Jacksonville was stuffing the box and Allen didn’t change the play or the direction of the run. They ran directly into Jacksonville’s strength. 

 

There is a professional defensive coach in this thread saying that Joe was wrong and that our failures in the run game had nothing to do with numbers disadvantages. I'm inclined to believe the guy that schemes defenses for a living versus the professional content creator, as much as I respect what Joe does.