Milano/Jones BOTH require surgery; Per McDermott

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Cheers for the link…

 

Seems Milano’s particular fracture is rare in the NFL… if I’m reading it correctly he found only. 4 other recent examples 

Hoping no ACL damage..

Exactly. A couple came back in the same season.

 

But for the vast majority it appears like it’s a 6 month injury at least.

 

Doesn’t seem like ACL damage, thankfully 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

Exactly. A couple came back in the same season.

 

But for the vast majority it appears like it’s a 6 month injury at least.

 

Doesn’t seem like ACL damage, thankfully 

Hope you are right about the ACL… but given what happened with Von last year… I’ll await the results of the surgery 

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

BangedUpBills twitter account pumping out a bit of optimism for potential playoff return for one or both.

Not directed at you specifically - but all these internet doctors looking at video and presuming to diagnose is beyond ridiculous.  The only people who know the actual extent of the injury are those that are actually involved in examining the scans - everything else is just worthless speculation.

[Success]

I imagine we'll have a more clear picture of timelines after the surgeries.  I'm still encouraged by the fact that neither has been ruled out for the season yet.

 

[MasterStrategist]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Tre, Milano, Daquan...our 3 best players at each level of the D.  

 

I hate to say it, but winning the division just became very difficult.  We are already a game behind Miami and still have to face them again in Miami.  Jones and Milano were huge in our win the first time, missing them and Tre automatically for the rematch already dramatically changes that matchup.

We each have 12 games left, one of those is the second head to head in Miami.  If Dolphins win that rematch, that would mean they would have a 2 game lead on us and a better divisional record, meaning we would need to win 3 more games than them over the other remaining 11 games.   So Miami would need to go 8-3 and we would need to be 11-0 over those 11 games which we face Chiefs, Eagles, and Bengals still amongst others.  We already have 2 losses to mid-tier teams as it is.  And if we lose even 1 of those games, that means Miami then needs to go 7-4 in their 11 games.  

 

Now if we beat Miami again, then winning the division gets a little more achievable, but would still have very little margin of error as we would still need to at least match Miamis record over the other 11 games.  If they win even 1 more game than us, they still win the division.

 

And if Miami wins the division, that means a probable playoff game in Miami where we won't have weather to help counter some of that speed and will likely be down at least 3 of our best players on defense (unless Milano or Jones can make it back for playoffs).  

 

So the hard truth here is that the 2 losses vs Jets and Jags which we should have won now loom large divisionally, and to add to our challenge we must be near perfect the rest of the season to realistic have a shot at winning the division without at least 3 of our best defensive players.   

Obviously big injuries for our defense, but few things to counter:

1. Our offense LOST us both games thus far.  Even depleted on defense yesterday, they found a way to keep it close.  Our season goes as our offense does, that's been the case the past 3 years running. 

 

2. Our defense still has talent, especially at DL.  Need to get leads and wreak havoc.  We have comparable defenses to KC, Cincy, Miami.  Not gonna carry us to victory, but can force turnovers/cause issues for opponent passing games

 

3. Depth: next man up philosophy, perhaps we will be surprised (ie. AJE stepping up, Bernard) with a few weeks of consistent playing time.  That's obviously best case and no replacing our starters, but these "backups" are either former starters or early/mid picks.

 

I'll finish by just saying that SB contending teams have found ways to rally, when losing key players to injury.  We won't be the first or last to deal with a series of unfortunate events.  We need our offense to be on the same, or close to same, level as the Miami game regardless against top tier teams.  This defense likely is the same/potentially better, especially at DL, as the 2021 team that lost with 13 seconds.  

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

Our two most impactful defensive players this season.

Gone. 

Hard to imagine a worst case scenario on defense.

Maybe it’s time to trade for Tremaine Edmunds

[Herc11]

1 hour ago, noacls said:

Depends what type of fracture.  If it is tibial plateau fracture usually involves cartilage damage. 

Not true. I've had that fx and it was a 6 week timeframe with a brace that was adjustable to allow some flexion of my leg. I was walking on it in approx 3 weeks with the brace

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Yea, this overreaction is getting annoying and it’s not only aimed at you.  
 

Tre hurts for depth, but he was getting back to good.. he wasn’t elite in his form. 
 

Milano is elite.  He’s a linebacker.  Let me repeat myself.. he’s a linebacker. 
 

Jones was playing at an elite level.  He’s a defensive tackle.  
 

Yea, it sucks.  But we signed Poona Ford for a reason.  He’s a 1T who likely now becomes Daquan lite. 
 

We drafted Dorian Williams in RD3 for a reason.   The guy drafted before him was slated to start for Dallas at LB before he went down for the year in preseason. 
 

Tre is a problem if Elam is a complete bust.   We seem to have zero depth behind Jackson and Benford now.  

 

You talk about an overreaction. This is the complete opposite over action in positivity. A total down play of very key losses on the Bills defense. 

 

Not sure how you justify the losses as anything but very significant. Mind boggling optimism in my eyes. I just can't get behind what you are saying or selling. 

 

You can't replace Tre number one CB on the team, Milano one of the best LB in the league, and Jones an anchor on the Dline line.  

 

To boot, the replacements are who? Ford looks terrible and couldn't even get on the field for a reason, Williams is a rookie and clearly not ready, and Elam looked like as$. 

 

Optimism is great but come on. I could get behind something like the Bills offense is going to have to win games. Allen is going to have to be superman, let him cook and don't restrict him. The offense has to be much more assertive and aggressive. 

 

 

 

[Maynard]

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

Obviously big injuries for our defense, but few things to counter:

1. Our offense LOST us both games thus far.  Even depleted on defense yesterday, they found a way to keep it close.  Our season goes as our offense does, that's been the case the past 3 years running. 

 

2. Our defense still has talent, especially at DL.  Need to get leads and wreak havoc.  We have comparable defenses to KC, Cincy, Miami.  Not gonna carry us to victory, but can force turnovers/cause issues for opponent passing games

 

3. Depth: next man up philosophy, perhaps we will be surprised (ie. AJE stepping up, Bernard) with a few weeks of consistent playing time.  That's obviously best case and no replacing our starters, but these "backups" are either former starters or early/mid picks.

 

I'll finish by just saying that SB contending teams have found ways to rally, when losing key players to injury.  We won't be the first or last to deal with a series of unfortunate events.  We need our offense to be on the same, or close to same, level as the Miami game regardless against top tier teams.  This defense likely is the same/potentially better, especially at DL, as the 2021 team that lost with 13 seconds.  

I'd like to talk about the Bills defense vs the Jags especially after the injuries. Let's take a deeper dive here. 

 

Did the Bills D really do a good job against a Medicare Jags offense? The Jags ran 82 plays for 475 yards and kept the ball for 40 minutes. Let that sink in! No way in hell is that a winning formula. 

 

The Bills D had a couple of big turnovers to their credit. That's what really kept them in the game. Turnovers are fantastic but usually not sustainable long term. 

 

This defense is severely depleted of its best players. You just can't gloss that over. They still are having trouble stopping the run and getting off the field on 3rd down. A staple of a McD defense. McD is good but he isn't a miracle worker. Who know what kind of Von the Bills get? At best, the defense will be a bend but don't break defense. Get some big turnovers and get stout in the red zone.

 

I suspect Allen will have less possession time and plays to run. The offense is going to have to be very precise with it's limited opportunities. I think the Bills should go back to a more aggressive offense and take the lease off Allen. Let him run, scramble, create plays, pass deep, RPOs, seam routes to Kincaid, etc ..Open it up and let it rip.

[Alphadawg7]

55 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Obviously big injuries for our defense, but few things to counter:

1. Our offense LOST us both games thus far.  Even depleted on defense yesterday, they found a way to keep it close.  Our season goes as our offense does, that's been the case the past 3 years running. 

 

2. Our defense still has talent, especially at DL.  Need to get leads and wreak havoc.  We have comparable defenses to KC, Cincy, Miami.  Not gonna carry us to victory, but can force turnovers/cause issues for opponent passing games

 

3. Depth: next man up philosophy, perhaps we will be surprised (ie. AJE stepping up, Bernard) with a few weeks of consistent playing time.  That's obviously best case and no replacing our starters, but these "backups" are either former starters or early/mid picks.

 

I'll finish by just saying that SB contending teams have found ways to rally, when losing key players to injury.  We won't be the first or last to deal with a series of unfortunate events.  We need our offense to be on the same, or close to same, level as the Miami game regardless against top tier teams.  This defense likely is the same/potentially better, especially at DL, as the 2021 team that lost with 13 seconds.  

 

I don't disagree with any of that...but that doesn't change the mathematical realities facing this team specifically about winning the division I was discussing.

 

Like I said in my last post, we each have 12 games remaining, one of which is against each other in the last game of the season and Miami currently has a 1 game lead on us.  For us to for sure win the division, we need to at least match their win total over the next 11 games.  There is no path to the divisional title if Miami has a better record than us in the next 11 games.  

 

Week 17 win:  If we do at the every least match their win total in the next 11 games and win in week 17, then we have a tied record with the head to head tie breaker having swept the series.

 

Week 17 loss:  The only way we can win the division while losing week 17 is if Miami finishes with a worse record than us even with a win in week 17 by them.  That means the Fins must lose 3 more games than us in the next 11 games, which doesn't seem likely barring injuries to key players.

So my post wasn't about whether we can still be a good team or not, it was about the difficulty of winning the division just went up significantly between 2 bad losses to Jets and Jags coupled with losing 3 key players on defense.  There is no margin of error, we have to match Miami win for win over the next 11 games.  

[noacls]

41 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

Not true. I've had that fx and it was a 6 week timeframe with a brace that was adjustable to allow some flexion of my leg. I was walking on it in approx 3 weeks with the brace

Then you are an absolute genetic freak my friend. 

[TheBrownBear]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

JJ Watt tore his pec last season and missed 8 games

It was TJ Watt and he didn't tear the tendon, just the muscle, and didn't require surgery, just rest and rehab. 

 

Jones' injury appears to be more serious given that it's been announced he'll undergo surgery.  You're looking at a likely 5-6 month recovery for Jones before he's back to 100%.

[VW82]

We need to trade for a one tech if we're serious about competing the rest of the season. Any ideas? 

[Warriorspikes51]

6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

We need to trade for a one tech if we're serious about competing the rest of the season. Any ideas? 

Poona Ford is a solid player 

 

IMO he should have been playing over Tim Settle

Edited October 10, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[SCBills]

37 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You talk about an overreaction. This is the complete opposite over action in positivity. A total down play of very key losses on the Bills defense. 

 

Not sure how you justify the losses as anything but very significant. Mind boggling optimism in my eyes. I just can't get behind what you are saying or selling. 

 

You can't replace Tre number one CB on the team, Milano one of the best LB in the league, and Jones an anchor on the Dline line.  

 

To boot, the replacements are who? Ford looks terrible and couldn't even get on the field for a reason, Williams is a rookie and clearly not ready, and Elam looked like as$. 

 

Optimism is great but come on. I could get behind something like the Bills offense is going to have to win games. Allen is going to have to be superman, let him cook and don't restrict him. The offense has to be much more assertive and aggressive. 

 

 

 

When did I say those guys were going to be studs?

 

We still have enough on defense.  
 

People would say “we can’t lose Ed” if we lost Oliver.  “Can’t lose Groot” if we lost Rousseau. “Can’t lose Taron” if we lost Johnson.  “Can’t lose Von again” if we lost Von again.  
 

Enough already.  
 

It sucks.  But Tre is the only one that should be a fatal flaw if we can’t get baseline production at corner.   You can scheme and/or find a linebacker.   You can get by without a stud 1T DT. 
 

And these injuries hit before the trade deadline. 
 

We held a good offense with a QB that was on point to 11 points until the 4th quarter.  That was without Benford, Roussea, Shaq and essentially Von as well.  

Scheme and Pass Rush can mask A LOT. 

 

[MasterStrategist]

20 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I'd like to talk about the Bills defense vs the Jags especially after the injuries. Let's take a deeper dive here. 

 

Did the Bills D really do a good job against a Medicare Jags offense? The Jags ran 82 plays for 475 yards and kept the ball for 40 minutes. Let that sink in! No way in hell is that a winning formula. 

 

The Bills D had a couple of big turnovers to their credit. That's what really kept them in the game. Turnovers are fantastic but usually not sustainable long term. 

 

This defense is severely depleted of its best players. You just can't gloss that over. They still are having trouble stopping the run and getting off the field on 3rd down. A staple of a McD defense. McD is good but he isn't a miracle worker. Who know what kind of Von the Bills get? At best, the defense will be a bend but don't break defense. Get some big turnovers and get stout in the red zone.

 

I suspect Allen will have less possession time and plays to run. The offense is going to have to be very precise with it's limited opportunities. I think the Bills should go back to a more aggressive offense and take the lease off Allen. Let him run, scramble, create plays, pass deep, RPOs, seam routes to Kincaid, etc ..Open it up and let it rip.

If you wanna take a closer look, then please include:

1. 4th qtr defense: at this point we're gassed, Von being out (snap counts), and injuries.  175 yards given up.  We had still just given up only 11 points

 

2. Medicare Jags offense: as you said.  T Lawrence had been playing better.  Ridley, Kirk, Etienne, Engram, and Zay is not Medicare offense.  Not to mention their starting LT back from 4 game suspension

 

3. This style of defense is how we will need to keep playing. Without those key players, we need to rely on turnovers and we got critical ones to keep points off the board

 

Jags TOP also influenced by our offense playing putrid for a good chunk of the game.  If we even got average to above average play, we win and we're just stuck discussing injuries.  At this point, we need to accept our defense will be giving up long drives to good offenses.  Getting timely sacks, turnovers, forcing FGs is our game.  

 

Our offense has to be the catalyst and driving force.  Coach can dial up blitz/pressures and we can get good rush with our front 4 to play winning football.  Just can't expect our offense to go into a shell of itself for >half of the game

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

They're both season ending. A torn pec takes about 4 months to heal. A rupture about 6. Either way, that's the whole season and playoffs.

 

Matt Milano and Daquan Jones were the two best performers on our Defense. The ramifications of this on the Defensive side of the ball, is massive. Especially following losing Tre. That's the best player on 3 different levels of our squad. 

 

It's so frustrating because I felt injuries were the biggest thing that held us back last year. So I was hoping for better luck this year. 5 games in and it's the same story.

 

There's really no replacing those guys. Jordan Phillips, Dorian Williams, and Dane Jackson can only hope to lessen the drop off. But it's still going to be a drop off, even if they play their best all year.

Don’t sleep on Jordan Phillips. If he can stay healthy he’s a one man wrecking crew rushing the passer.

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Don’t sleep on Jordan Phillips. If he can stay healthy he’s a one man wrecking crew rushing the passer.

Thus far, Phillips has been sleeping. He's done very little to date. The Bills need him to step up. 

[MasterStrategist]

28 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I don't disagree with any of that...but that doesn't change the mathematical realities facing this team specifically about winning the division I was discussing.

 

Like I said in my last post, we each have 12 games remaining, one of which is against each other in the last game of the season and Miami currently has a 1 game lead on us.  For us to for sure win the division, we need to at least match their win total over the next 11 games.  There is no path to the divisional title if Miami has a better record than us in the next 11 games.  

 

Week 17 win:  If we do at the every least match their win total in the next 11 games and win in week 17, then we have a tied record with the head to head tie breaker having swept the series.

 

Week 17 loss:  The only way we can win the division while losing week 17 is if Miami finishes with a worse record than us even with a win in week 17 by them.  That means the Fins must lose 3 more games than us in the next 11 games, which doesn't seem likely barring injuries to key players.

So my post wasn't about whether we can still be a good team or not, it was about the difficulty of winning the division just went up significantly between 2 bad losses to Jets and Jags coupled with losing 3 key players on defense.  There is no margin of error, we have to match Miami win for win over the next 11 games.  

Sorry misread your post as being more focused on overcoming the injuries.  

 

Agree, it will be a challenge to win the division.  I'd say it is not too different than LY or prior (NE).  Injuries aside, those were both situations we had to "catch up"/take care of our business against them toward end of year.

 

I think it's still way too early/alot can happen, and we've seen alot happen in years past.  1 game differential can be made up literally in a week.  Even being 2 back isn't the end of world.  If we had Miami next week, I'd be more concerned given where we're at injury wise.  I think we need to see what this team does in these circumstances, and get back on track.