Does the 2023 Bills defence get a pass because McD is coaching it?

[boyst]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

Your first sentence is a contradiction. Zeroing in and focusing on one unit (all the while refusing to talk about or acknowledge the impact the other has on that unit) is by definition ignoring the offense. Doesn’t work like that. Can’t throw away circumstances.

 

This team will go as far as the offense carries them, so while all the defensive injuries suck, if the offense can’t duke it out with the KCs and MIAs, and any other unit across from them, it won’t matter anyway. I’m concerned about it all because I hope for a SB win.
 

 

This thread is about defense. I am simply asking people to talk about the problems on defense specifically.

 

I don't think anyone in the NFL doesn't think the bills are capable of "duking it out" with anyone on offense. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I thought they were amazing yesterday.  They were on the field almost twice as long as the offense.

 

I give up.  500 yards and they were amazing?  Unbelievable what homers are here.

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

This thread is about defense. I am simply asking people to talk about the problems on defense specifically.

 

I don't think anyone in the NFL doesn't think the bills are capable of "duking it out" with anyone on offense. 

Problems on defense were pretty apparent: untimely penalties, Jags had 4 first downs converted by a flag IIRC. They had multiple starters get hurt and already had a few missing from the lineup. They couldn’t win with 4, so McD resorted to blitzing to get the ball out of Trevor’s hand quick (which resulted in a crucial completion with Hyde covering Ridley). What matters most is points, so if the Jags moved the ball up and down the field, but the Bills got a timely sack that pushes them out of FG range, or a turnover to negate a drive, you can say they made the plays when it counted. Because they were missing so many crucial starters? I called their performance “admirable.” Anyone on this board would’ve signed up for 11 pts through 3 quarters. 

And of course the Bills offense can go toe to toe with any other in the league… but they have to do it. And if they don’t, it’s another year without the Lombardi trophy. 

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How did they get into the red zone?  The D let them there.  40 minutes time of possession is all you need to know. Always excuses and sorry A lot of it has to do because McDermott is the coach on that side of the ball now.

40 minutes of TOP was because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

 

Look at this drive chart:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401547228

 

1. 3 plays, 1:25, punt

2. 3 plays, 1:56, punt

3. 6 plays, 2:06, punt

4. 4 plays, 2:24, punt

5. 11 plays 4:30, TD

6. 4 plays, 1:26, punt

7. 4 plays, 1:34, punt

8. 4 plays, 1:43, INT  (remarkably, the score was only 11-7 at this moment and the game was winnable)

9. 4 plays, 0:45, TD

11 minutes ago, boyst said:

This thread is about defense. I am simply asking people to talk about the problems on defense specifically.

 

I don't think anyone in the NFL doesn't think the bills are capable of "duking it out" with anyone on offense. 

We have losses to two of the shittiest offenses in the NFL.  So theres that.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I give up.  500 yards and they were amazing?  Unbelievable what homers are here.

 

The Jags didn't move the ball with any consistency until the 4th and the game was 11-7.

We've seen this before.  You don't think the score is what matters, its yards.

 

We were down:

• Matt Milano
• DaQuan Jones
• Von Miller
• Greg Rousseau
• Leonard Floyd
• Tre White
• Christian Benford
• Shaq Lawson

I honestly think you believe that back ups and practice squad players who are exhausted should have the same level of productivity as All Pro's.  

 

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Problems on defense were pretty apparent: untimely penalties, Jags had 4 first downs converted by a flag IIRC. They had multiple starters get hurt and already had a few missing from the lineup. They couldn’t win with 4, so McD resorted to blitzing to get the ball out of Trevor’s hand quick (which resulted in a crucial completion with Hyde covering Ridley). What matters most is points, so if the Jags moved the ball up and down the field, but the Bills got a timely sack that pushes them out of FG range, or a turnover to negate a drive, you can say they made the plays when it counted. Because they were missing so many crucial starters? I called their performance “admirable.” Anyone on this board would’ve signed up for 11 pts through 3 quarters. 

And of course the Bills offense can go toe to toe with any other in the league… but they have to do it. And if they don’t, it’s another year without the Lombardi trophy. 

so can we just focus on one statement here now that you're addressing defense? 

 

we couldn't win with 4 and with 4 we were getting toasted in the backfield... we tried 5 and 6 and it made no difference. don't you think we should have tried somethign else?

[teef]

1 minute ago, High Football IQ said:

Nope, even with the injuries mounting this defense wasn't/isn't as good as some folks thought especially since they padded their stats against bottom feeders like the Raiders and Redskins.

 

Injuries will now be the annual excuse again watching this unit get lit up the rest of the year by much better teams than the Jets and Jaguars that's for sure.

well hey you.

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

40 minutes of TOP was because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

 

Look at this drive chart:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401547228

 

1. 3 plays, 1:25, punt

2. 3 plays, 1:56, punt

3. 6 plays, 2:06, punt

4. 4 plays, 2:24, punt

5. 11 plays 4:30, TD

6. 4 plays, 1:26, punt

7. 4 plays, 1:34, punt

8. 4 plays, 1:43, INT  (remarkably, the score was only 11-7 at this moment and the game was winnable)

9. 4 plays, 0:45, TD

We have losses to two of the shittiest offenses in the NFL.  So theres that.

i mean, we did make lawrence and dude from the jets look all pro

 

i hate pulling on mcdermott all the time but it's been a theme with him being here that we play to our opponents level. i don't remember that with cinci the last few years, or vrabel ever... not saying they are better coaches but they are two that come to mind that get their guys going. oh, and carpenter in detroit always brings his squad out to play

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

so can we just focus on one statement here now that you're addressing defense? 

 

we couldn't win with 4 and with 4 we were getting toasted in the backfield... we tried 5 and 6 and it made no difference. don't you think we should have tried somethign else?

If 4, 5, and 6 isn’t working, what’s the only other alternative? Rush 3 and cover with 8? With a defense missing much of their top end talent? 

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

40 minutes of TOP was because the offense couldn't stay on the field.

 

Look at this drive chart:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401547228

 

1. 3 plays, 1:25, punt

2. 3 plays, 1:56, punt

3. 6 plays, 2:06, punt

4. 4 plays, 2:24, punt

5. 11 plays 4:30, TD

6. 4 plays, 1:26, punt

7. 4 plays, 1:34, punt

8. 4 plays, 1:43, INT  (remarkably, the score was only 11-7 at this moment and the game was winnable)

9. 4 plays, 0:45, TD

We have losses to two of the shittiest offenses in the NFL.  So theres that.

How about looking at Jax and their possessions.  9,9,8,7,7,17,10,5(TD).....  That's the offences fault?

[GerstAusGosheim]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep not Frazier so many are happy.

 

Yes injuries too.

 

Yesterday they were not good, but get a pass.  Is this because of McD

 

Frazier certainly did not get a pass in the Bengals playoff game missing Von, Daquon Jones, Hyde, Damar and 1/2 Poyer – while the O absolutely sucked. 

 

Why would Sean?

 

But this isn't the right game to ask that question, because the D played pretty well.

 

[Low Positive]

19 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

Nope, even with the injuries mounting this defense wasn't/isn't as good as some folks thought especially since they padded their stats against bottom feeders like the Raiders and Redskins.

 

Injuries will now be the annual excuse again watching this unit get lit up the rest of the year by much better teams than the Jets and Jaguars that's for sure.

I'm a little confused. Reading your post, I see that the Bills played the Jets, Raiders, Commanders, and Jags. That's only 4 teams. How can that be? Did the BIlls get a week 4 bye? Something's missing.

[RiotAct]

our defense has been excellent so far this season.  Yes we gave up 25 (about league-average?) yesterday against the Jags, but we were fielding a M.A.S.H. unit who was out there for like 40 minutes of the contest.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

How about looking at Jax and their possessions.  9,9,8,7,7,17,10,5(TD).....  That's the offences fault?

The offenses fault is that they couldn't stay on the field or score points.  You cited 40 minutes of Jax TOP as if its only a function of defense.  If offense puts together the occasional drive, the Bills TOP improves.  If Bills TOP improves the defense has more time to rest.  Since games are of finite length, that leaves less time for the opponent to possess the ball.  Do you understand these concepts?

The offense hung a defensive unit missing half its starters out to dry all game.  Any other interpretation of the game is critically flawed.  But sure, maybe if the defense got off the field a little sooner then Martin could have uncorked a few more bombs.

 

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The offenses fault is that they couldn't stay on the field or score points.  You cited 40 minutes of Jax TOP as if its only a function of defense.  If offense puts together the occasional drive, the Bills TOP improves.  If Bills TOP improves the defense has more time to rest.  Since games are of finite length, that leaves less time for the opponent to possess the ball.  Do you understand these concepts?

The offense hung a defensive unit missing half its starters out to dry all game.  Any other interpretation of the game is critically flawed.  But sure, maybe if the defense got off the field a little sooner then Martin could have uncorked a few more bombs.

 

No TOP is due to the defence not getting a stop and allowing long drives.  I've already said I think Dorsey needs to unleash Allen and was obvious the dinks and dunks weren't working.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

The offenses fault is that they couldn't stay on the field or score points.  You cited 40 minutes of Jax TOP as if its only a function of defense.  If offense puts together the occasional drive, the Bills TOP improves.  If Bills TOP improves the defense has more time to rest.  Since games are of finite length, that leaves less time for the opponent to possess the ball.  Do you understand these concepts?

The offense hung a defensive unit missing half its starters out to dry all game.  Any other interpretation of the game is critically flawed.  But sure, maybe if the defense got off the field a little sooner then Martin could have uncorked a few more bombs.

 

It's obviously a two sided coin but the fact that a Falcons defense of whom I would challenge you to name one single starter managed a significantly better performance despite a wholly inept offensive counterpart just a week prior has to be mentioned imo

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

did you see or notice anything was wrong with the defense or see flaws in any part of that 1/3?

 

Yes, Elam was hung out to dry by McDummy.  Elam was clearly rusty and had no business covering Ridley.  It was comical after a while, except the lack of adjustment by McDummy was no laughing matter.  He had no answers.  So McD decides to humiliate the kid even further by benching him late.  How to win friends and waste first-round draft picks.

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yesterday they were not good

WTF have you been smoking.

They were great considering the situation that they found themselves in.

It was the O that was the problem…..👿

[boyst]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

If 4, 5, and 6 isn’t working, what’s the only other alternative? Rush 3 and cover with 8? With a defense missing much of their top end talent? 

We will never know because it wasn't tried. What we tried didn't work and we kept trying. 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Success said:

I thought they were amazing yesterday.  They were on the field almost twice as long as the offense.

 

 

Funny you mention that, I took a glance. 

 

Not one team in the league this weekend allowed more 1st-Downs. 

 

Only one team allowed more total yards, that was the Giants' D against Miami.  

 

Only one team allowed greater Time-of-Possession, that was the pathetic Pats.  

 

So we're essentially being asked to believe that considering the injuries, the D that we fielded yesterday was literally the worst in the entire league.  

 

That's a tough sell even if it were true.  

 

 

3 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Defense was not why we lost yesterday.  

 

We lost for several reasons, primarily that we were simply outcoached.  Let's not forget to give credit to Pederson and his staff, Lawrence and their team.  They outplayed us. 

 

Otherwise, and to what extent, poor (travel) planning, injuries, and per the above, play-calling.  

 

Two of those three were entirely avoidable.