24 Hours after London, The Good (yes there is good), The Bad, The Ugly.

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If we are talking on paper from last year, yes.  But this year, our ends are both playing at elite levels without Miller.

 

Rosseau and Floyd and our back up Epenesa have created havoc all year.

 

I'm not saying it's a runaway, but the Bills DL all year have played well.  While the Eagles have struggled in pass defense this year.

 

Agree, our DL has been very good and amongst the best in the NFL this year.

 

32 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think we can be fine at DT if Poona doesn't suck.  He's not going to be dominant like Jones was wear he's wrecking havoc....he just needs to not hurt us.

 

This is where I disagree.  Jones loss is big, maybe almost as big as Milano.  The impact of losing Jones will be felt on all 3 levels of the defense.  Those guys wreaking havoc as you mentioned above is true, but Jones impact has been a big reason why.  His ability to wreck the middle and bring pressure there makes the jobs of Ed and the edge guys so much easier to get home.  It disrupts the center of the pocket and timing of the QB to buy time for the others to get there if Jones doesn't get there himself.  Not only does this help the upfront guys coming after the QB, but it often forces the QB into rushed or ill advised throws creating opportunities for the back end of the defense to make plays, PBU's, and interceptions.  

 

We were leading the league in Interceptions, Turnovers, and Sacks heading into the London game, and Jones impact was a big reason why.  He was arguably the best DT in the NFL this season in terms of his level of play thus far.  

 

Im not saying we are doomed, but if we have lost Jones for the season, its a substantial loss.  I said in another thread, we lost our best player at each level of the defense in Tre at CB, Milano at LB, and Jones on the DL (he has been the best player on the DL this year).  And while Milano is the biggest loss, Jones is almost as bad.  In fact, I would not hesitate to take Jones back over Tre if given the choice to get one of them back right now.  Not a knock on Tre, but this team is better equipped for life without Tre than life without Jones who impacts the game more overall than Tre does.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 penalties for 100+ yards seems like a pretty ugly thing. 
 

Then there was the one play screwed the entire game …. 3rd and 5 pass incomplete but Milano hurt and flag on Ed for a personal foul … with the automatic first down, they go on to score, Ed commits another PF and they decide to get 2 points. That ends up being the 5 pt difference on the scoreboard. 

 

defense was on the field 2/3s of the game- They kept gifting drive extending penalties while committing drive killing holds on offense. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agree, our DL has been very good and amongst the best in the NFL this year.

 

 

This is where I disagree.  Jones loss is big, maybe almost as big as Milano.  The impact of losing Jones will be felt on all 3 levels of the defense.  Those guys wreaking havoc as you mentioned above is true, but Jones impact has been a big reason why.  His ability to wreck the middle and bring pressure there makes the jobs of Ed and the edge guys so much easier to get home.  It disrupts the center of the pocket and timing of the QB to buy time for the others to get there if Jones doesn't get there himself.  Not only does this help the upfront guys coming after the QB, but it often forces the QB into rushed or ill advised throws creating opportunities for the back end of the defense to make plays, PBU's, and interceptions.  

 

We were leading the league in Interceptions, Turnovers, and Sacks heading into the London game, and Jones impact was a big reason why.  He was arguably the best DT in the NFL this season in terms of his level of play thus far.  

 

Im not saying we are doomed, but if we have lost Jones for the season, its a substantial loss.  I said in another thread, we lost our best player at each level of the defense in Tre at CB, Milano at LB, and Jones on the DL (he has been the best player on the DL this year).  And while Milano is the biggest loss, Jones is almost as bad.  In fact, I would not hesitate to take Jones back over Tre if given the choice to get one of them back right now.  Not a knock on Tre, but this team is better equipped for life without Tre than life without Jones who impacts the game more overall than Tre does.

 

I know he's important and expect a step back.

 

However, Jones went down on the first drive.  Oliver still ended up with 3 TFL and a sack.  Epenesa was insane.  We had Vickers playing mostly edge.

Jonathan went down a bit.  Oliver went down for a bit.  Floyd went down.  Miller was on a strict pitch count.  Yet the game was 11-7 starting in the 4th.  We started getting gashed when we ran out of gas in the 4th.

 

If I was a Jags fan, I actually would be a little concerned if you look at the context.  The box score looks good and he nailed big throws in the 4th....but it took a gassed out and back up defense of the Bills before they started moving the ball.  

 

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

The Bills will be fine! Look at the AFC as a hole outside of KC is there another Elite team to compete with the Bills. In the NFC I would say the Eagles and 49ers.  My rankings of the 4 teams is:

 

1. 49ers

2. Bills

3. Chiefs

4. Eagles

 

they are all close so come playoff time they could all beat eachother. So in the words of a hippie QB Bills fans should “RELAX”

It’s week 5.  Lots can happen between now and the playoffs.  Looks how much things have changed for the bills in 7 days.  White, Milano and (likely) Jones out for the season. 
 

Some teams improve.  Some teams will regress.  Some will remain the same.  We don’t know how many elite will exist in the afc come playoff times.

[PatsFanNH]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s week 5.  Lots can happen between now and the playoffs.  Looks how much things have changed for the bills in 7 days.  White, Milano and (likely) Jones out for the season. 
 

Some teams improve.  Some teams will regress.  Some will remain the same.  We don’t know how many elite will exist in the afc come playoff times.

Also still time to make trades to improve the team this year. As I mentioned in another thread I am shocked the Bills didn’t try and get JC Jackson.  (Pats got him for a swap of picks in the 6th and 7th round and LA paying most of his salary)

[Alphadawg7]

44 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I know he's important and expect a step back.

 

However, Jones went down on the first drive.  Oliver still ended up with 3 TFL and a sack.  Epenesa was insane.  We had Vickers playing mostly edge.

Jonathan went down a bit.  Oliver went down for a bit.  Floyd went down.  Miller was on a strict pitch count.  Yet the game was 11-7 starting in the 4th.  We started getting gashed when we ran out of gas in the 4th.

 

If I was a Jags fan, I actually would be a little concerned if you look at the context.  The box score looks good and he nailed big throws in the 4th....but it took a gassed out and back up defense of the Bills before they started moving the ball.  

 

 

 

You are not wrong, and I am optimistic about even Dorian who I felt looked pretty solid considering the situation.  But end of the day, it was the Jags who don't have a good OL, who haven't been a good offense, and Trevor hasn't been very good all year.  

 

We still got gashed by Etienne and lost the game.  We still couldn't stop the air attack at times and got saved multiple times by penalties by the Jags negating good plays and taking negative yards and putting them behind the sticks where our defense could make more of an impact.  

 

I am much more concerned about the loss of Jones when we face teams like Eagles, Chiefs, Miami, and even the Bengals (whose offense looked substantially better this week).

 

I mean think about the Dolphins game alone.  If we had played last week without Milano and Jones, I think that is potentially a much different game.  Maybe we still win because Allen and the O were perfect, but it sure wouldn't have been a blow out.  I mean Jones and Milano were huge reasons why the defense turned it around after giving up those first 2 TD's with little resistance.  

 

Next time we face Miami we wont have the best player at all 3 levels of our defense in Tre, Milano, and Jones.  And those are the ones just guaranteed to not play, who knows if anyone else will be dealing with any injuries that week, those are just the guys we today know for sure won't play.  That means we are going to need Allen and the O to be near perfect again.  And we can't win this division without sweeping Miami IMO unless Miami goes on another skid like last year as they are already up a game on us as it is, but its hard to see where they do it looking at their remaining schedule.  And going into Miami down Tre, Milano, and Jones makes that game a lot different than this last time we played them.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are not wrong, and I am optimistic about even Dorian who I felt looked pretty solid considering the situation.  But end of the day, it was the Jags who don't have a good OL, who haven't been a good offense, and Trevor hasn't been very good all year.  

 

We still got gashed by Etienne and lost the game.  We still couldn't stop the air attack at times and got saved multiple times by penalties by the Jags negating good plays and taking negative yards and putting them behind the sticks where our defense could make more of an impact.  

 

I am much more concerned about the loss of Jones when we face teams like Eagles, Chiefs, Miami, and even the Bengals (whose offense looked substantially better this week).

 

I mean think about the Dolphins game alone.  If we had played last week without Milano and Jones, I think that is potentially a much different game.  Maybe we still win because Allen and the O were perfect, but it sure wouldn't have been a blow out.  I mean Jones and Milano were huge reasons why the defense turned it around after giving up those first 2 TD's with little resistance.  

 

Next time we face Miami we wont have the best player at all 3 levels of our defense in Tre, Milano, and Jones.  And those are the ones just guaranteed to not play, who knows if anyone else will be dealing with any injuries that week, those are just the guys we know for sure won't play today.  And we can't win this division without sweeping Miami IMO unless Miami goes on another skid like last year, but its hard to see where they do it looking at their remaining schedule.  And going into Miami down Tre, Milano, and Jones makes that game a lot different than this last time we played them.

 

 We did but I think the in game injuries are a significant reason why Lawrence looked good and Etienne ran well.  

 

Losing Jones and Milano is rough.  But I think if Miller wasn't on a pitch count and Floyd was able to continue to play...just having fresh bodies would have helped.

As bas as the Jags oline is, it shouldn't be a worse situation of us only having one healthy DE in Epenensa who was exhausted.  

We had 3 DE's rotating at the end of the game.  One was breathing oxygen, the other came off twice for an injury, the other was a back up DT.

 

If this happened to Allen, I would expect Allen to put up 50.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 We did but I think the in game injuries are a significant reason why Lawrence looked good and Etienne ran well.  

 

Losing Jones and Milano is rough.  But I think if Miller wasn't on a pitch count and Floyd was able to continue to play...just having fresh bodies would have helped.

As bas as the Jags oline is, it shouldn't be a worse situation of us only having one healthy DE in Epenensa who was exhausted.  

We had 3 DE's rotating at the end of the game.  One was breathing oxygen, the other came off twice for an injury, the other was a back up DT.

 

If this happened to Allen, I would expect Allen to put up 50.

 

Fair points all around there.  Still doesn't change my concern about what it will be like to play Miami in Miami down Tre, Milano, and possibly Jones for the whole game.  Like you said, you would expect Allen to put up 50 there...Tua and that offense have the same capability to capitalize on those players missing.  

 

Not to mention the other tough offenses in the AFC and NFC we will face down the stretch, playoffs, or Super Bowl if we reached it.  Don't get me wrong, I am still optimistic the defense can still be good enough, but at the same time, Dorsey and this offense need to be on point moving forward, and my confidence in Dorsey is not very high right now.  

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, poblano said:

Instead of look at the numbers look the actual games

I would if I could but am in Buffalo so can't see Philly or San Fran every week, yet I do see the Bills and week after week we get to QBs. 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

11 penalties for 100+ yards seems like a pretty ugly thing. 
 

Then there was the one play screwed the entire game …. 3rd and 5 pass incomplete but Milano hurt and flag on Ed for a personal foul … with the automatic first down, they go on to score, Ed commits another PF and they decide to get 2 points. That ends up being the 5 pt difference on the scoreboard. 

 

defense was on the field 2/3s of the game- They kept gifting drive extending penalties while committing drive killing holds on offense. 

The refs were an International disgrace. They ruined the flow of the game for everyone

The penalty on Poyer was a JOKE 

[BullBuchanan]

There is no good. The season died with certainty yesterday. An already bad run defense lost its two most important pieces, and we do not have an NFL level talent to replace Milano. Our offense still doesn't have the consistency required of a championship team and is unlikely to get it before the end of the season. The worst part is that the team just has no grit. It's a very soft culture McD has built here and ultimately it will be our undoing as this team loves to shrink in big moments.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

It’s week 5.  Lots can happen between now and the playoffs.  Looks how much things have changed for the bills in 7 days.  White, Milano and (likely) Jones out for the season. 
 

Some teams improve.  Some teams will regress.  Some will remain the same.  We don’t know how many elite will exist in the afc come playoff times.

This is true. How the team is performing in December , as well as their overall health at that point is much more important than in week 6. 

[Success]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

There is no good. The season died with certainty yesterday. An already bad run defense lost its two most important pieces, and we do not have an NFL level talent to replace Milano. Our offense still doesn't have the consistency required of a championship team and is unlikely to get it before the end of the season. The worst part is that the team just has no grit. It's a very soft culture McD has built here and ultimately it will be our undoing as this team loves to shrink in big moments.

 

On Saturday, most had us as the best or 2nd best team in the league.

 

We lost a LB.  He's great, but that makes us go from a top 2 team to "the season died w/ certainty?"

 

That really doesn't compute.

 

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

There is no good. The season died with certainty yesterday. An already bad run defense lost its two most important pieces, and we do not have an NFL level talent to replace Milano. Our offense still doesn't have the consistency required of a championship team and is unlikely to get it before the end of the season. The worst part is that the team just has no grit. It's a very soft culture McD has built here and ultimately it will be our undoing as this team loves to shrink in big moments.

This is a bit overdramatic.  We just steamrolled an elite Dolphins team by playing physical.   

IMO the biggest mistake was not going to London on Monday or Tuesday.
 

I bet the players would have enjoyed seeing London at night for a few days

They would have had enough time to get fully acclimated.

 

I don't understand the "sports science"  of flying there on Thursday night - Friday afternoon. 

[poblano]

36 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I would if I could but am in Buffalo so can't see Philly or San Fran every week, yet I do see the Bills and week after week we get to QBs. 

But  if you didn't see them how can make a statement?

 

 

I've seen Philly only a couple of weeks, but SF the five games and SF is above us and despite Bosa not being at his level of play, until last night.

[frostbitmic]

The Good ... AJ Epenesa, extend him.

 

The Bad ... Giving up a home game to a conference competitor as part of an experiment, stupid stupid decision. I take that back, it had to be a home game, we had the annoying train noise.

 

The Ugly ... Losing Milano for the year and Jones for most of, if not all of it as well. Taron Johnson complained about the condition of the field. Dare I say that if we played the game at home, we probably don't lose either Milano or Jones, much less both of them.

[Big Blitz]

Nothing against McD - let me put aside the unforgivable 13 seconds for a minute - he’s a great coach.  I personally love him and would run thru a wall for him.   
 

 

But the inconsistency on offense is the risk you run with inexperienced OCs or revolving doors at OCs.  
 

Great points OP about the “what is the Bills “go to” play?”  
 

It appears it’s still “Let Josh make the incredible happen.”

 

 

I really wanted that win yesterday because it would have completely erased the “I can feel a let down game coming” vibe this team has at least twice a season that’s costed them home field advantage.  A game the coaches assert themselves as elite coaches.  
 

The inconsistency on a fully healthy offense is maddening.  

[LABILLBACKER]

I agree scrubbing the play action yesterday was a disaster. And I disagree that Ford or Settle are "solid interior" players.  The key to the remainder of this season will be:

 

1. Minimize injuries 

2. Keep using play action

3. Develop Bernard/ Williams 

4. Keep the 4 headed pass rushers healthy (Von, Groot, Floyd & AJE).

5. Trade for Surtain

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Also still time to make trades to improve the team this year. As I mentioned in another thread I am shocked the Bills didn’t try and get JC Jackson.  (Pats got him for a swap of picks in the 6th and 7th round and LA paying most of his salary)

Yeah…time got lots of teams to make trades…..

 

JC Jackson sucks.  Beane is smarter than to trade for a player that refused to go into the game and forced an injured player to l play while hurt.  He’s a bum. 

[london_bills]

I feel like we are close but the offence is lacking speed. 49ers, chiefs, dolphins all the elite Os have fast YAC players. I feel like if we could add one piece to an already good offence it could get us playoffs and deeper. (yes I know corner is an issue)