Bills vs Jags Postgame thread

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Johnnycage46 said:

It does lead to questioning why.  It's not only injuries but season enders and lingering injuries.  Sucks.

It doesn’t feel like we lose a guy in the divisional and get them back for a Super Bowl or something like that. It’s always in the middle of the year and we wait to see them again next year. 
 

I think the intent was for Von to get a lot more than 5 snaps but guys started dropping like flies.

[Johnnycage46]

Just now, RichRiderBills said:

Not like we lost to the Bears or anything, Jags are a top AFC team. The game was close. We nearly won despite playing bad. I don't buy that the Jags dominated or the score didn't indicate how close it was. We will be fine. 

 

 

It's the injuries really.  Milano is everywhere and a beast.  Jones is vital up front.  And Tre was playing well.  Going to be tought to overcome...and that's assuming more guys don't get dinged up.

Just now, Mango said:

It doesn’t feel like we lose a guy in the divisional and get them back for a Super Bowl or something like that. It’s always in the middle of the year and we wait to see them again next year. 
 

I think the intent was for Von to get a lot more than 5 snaps but guys started dropping like flies.

Yeah exactly.  When the injuries hit they are big ones.  Last year and so far this year is crazy.  Maybe just bad luck but does make me wonder if training staff is doing the right things.

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

The effort given by our players was enough to run through a brick wall. 

 

I've measured a lot of our coaches by the highs and lows. We aren't an even keel team like more established teams are, even if they're younger. They're better coached teams than we are: 9ers, Chiefs, Eagles, Patriots, and Seahawks. Those teams have coaches and systems where they punch in and go to work. Sure, they have fun and play with passion but it's different with us and I'm just not the best to describe it. But my eyes know what I see and I don't see us contending for the Super Bowl.

You described it well. I will try to elaborate in more detail. 

 

McD is a very good defensive coach. His schemes are effective in many ways. They will often beat inferior teams. He can scheme well vs limited QB passers like Matt Jones, Lamar, and Tua. However, the likes of Burrow and Mahomes are a different animal. His scheme will almost always fall short. To be fair, they are almost unstoppable for any team. Come playoff time I have little confidence a McD led D will be good enough to represent the AFC. 

 

Offensively, the Bills have no identity. Under Daboll they were a quick strike explosive offense. Not anymore. The run game is sporadic. Cook isn't the answer sorry. He's just a decent RB that you can find on any teams roster. Besides Diggs the pass catchers aren't very good, decent, average, poor, or under utilized. Coaching, play calling, schemes, etc...are problematic. Just look at their 12 personnel sets. Look at how they are using Knox and Kincaid. Still can't complete a screen pass to save their life. Add in Allen doesn't run anymore. No need for a spy anymore. The offense is not dynamic, not creative, not explosive. People will point to the stats but don't buy into that. Allen will put up numbers because he's excellent. Today is a perfect example of that. I redirect you to the highly rated Bills defenses the last few years under Fraizer. I believe they were ranked 1 and or 2. Come playoff time those defenses got throttled. Stats are deceiving. I'd argue the same goes with this Bills offense. 

 

Let's dig a little deeper:

 

Jets D (excellent)- Terrible Allen

 

Raiders D (terrible) - Bills O looks good

 

Commanders D (not good) - Bills O looks good 

 

Fins D (not good) Awesome Offense.

 

Jags D (average at best)  Bills O poor

 

This team has only played one good defense and they flopped. 

 

The Bills offense needs an identity. They need to get other going in the offense besides Diggs. They need Allen to start running. RPOs please. More motion, play action passes, and screens. More Murray and Harris less Cook. Get Kincaid downfield. 

 

 

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

After 8 hours of feeling like crap I feel pretty good about Josh, again, today.

 

Another solid day of mostly smart quarterbacking.

He played really well.

 

The offensive struggles were not on him today.

 

Dropped passes, horrible play calling and tons of holding penalties 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

So many missed interceptions today.

 

Can not believe we lost to this team.

 

 

[Cray51]

We were down to our bottom corners, against a team with 3-4 viable pass catchers each down.  They converted tons of third downs specifically against Elam.

 

then, we lose our top DT, with Milano, and we already are down Rousseau.  I’m not shocked they killed in time of possession, and while the offense was subpar, our defense couldn’t do much either.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Calvin Ridley still open

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Calvin Ridley still open

 

 

What Elam up to? 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

What Elam up to? 

 

he retired

 

 

[jahnyc]

Some post-game thoughts:

 

1.  I doubt we will find any replacements, by trade or otherwise, that are upgrades at this point for the players lost for the season due to injury.  If we could, not sure which position is most critical to prioritize.  All seem critical, which is really unfortunate going forward.

2.  Elam did not play well in coverage and missed tackles.  Ingram replaced him late in the game.  At this point, I am not optimistic that we will see improvement and there is a reason he has not been on the active roster in prior games.  I don't think he will be with the Bills at the start of next season.

3.  I don't think Cook is a three down back.  He is not blazing fast around the edge and he is not a power back.  He is a good receiver out of the backfield.  I know he had good stats up until this game, but I think we can do better at RB1.

4.  Bernard has been a pleasant surprise so far this season.  Interesting how well Moss has played for Indy.   Maybe Beane deserves less criticism for some of his recent picks, other than Elam (although it was clear that the Bills wanted McDuffie (KC), who has been great).

5.  I have not understood the Kincaid pick, particularly given his use so far this season.  Still think that a fast #3 WR was needed for the offense to open things up.  Unfortunately, Harty does not seem to be that guy.

6.  The injuries so far this season are incredibly depressing.  We only have played five games and we have lost three top defensive players for the season and maybe longer.

7.  I think McD has done a great job with the defense overall.  Given the injuries today and the players that missed the game due to injury, I thought the unit played about as well as they could have under the circumstances.

8.  The offensive play calling was poor today, or there was poor execution, or both.  The offense continues to be frustrating the way it is so up and down.  The offense was the reason we lost today.

[Billsatlastin2018]

“Offensively, the Bills have no identity. Under Daboll they were a quick strike explosive offense. Not anymore. The run game is sporadic. Cook isn't the answer sorry. He's just a decent RB that you can find on any teams roster. Besides Diggs the pass catchers aren't very good, decent, average, poor, or under utilized. Coaching, play calling, schemes, etc...are problematic. Just look at their 12 personnel sets. Look at how they are using Knox and Kincaid. Still can't complete a screen pass to save their life. Add in Allen doesn't run anymore. No need for a spy anymore. The offense is not dynamic, not creative, not explosive. People will point to the stats but don't buy into that. Allen will put up numbers because he's excellent. Today is a perfect example of that. I redirect you to the highly rated Bills defenses the last few years under Fraizer. I believe they were ranked 1 and or 2. Come playoff time those defenses got throttled. Stats are deceiving. I'd argue the same goes with this Bills offense. “

I agree with all of this take.

 

Bit of a hot take mess and I have no belief it will get seriously better! Once again, balls clanged off Davis!
The OC is out to Lunch and badly misusing available personnel.

Allen + Diggs cannot carry the Bills into any semblance of serious playoff success. 

[newcam2012]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

He played really well.

 

The offensive struggles were not on him today.

 

Dropped passes, horrible play calling and tons of holding penalties 

Did he really play well? Serious question there. I don't think he played poorly at all. I thought he was ok but nothing really special or elite. I didn't see an it factor, a chip on his shoulder, or a lot of emotion. I never felt like he was going to lead the team to victory. He really didn't use his legs as a weapon or extend plays that led to huge plays. In fact, his two long throws to Diggs were under thrown which negated easy TDs. That's not playing really well. He's the leader of the offense and they sucked for three quarters. Diggs was the only one showing emotion on the sidelines. Meanwhile, we saw a muted Allen who almost looked distracted or disinterested. No Allen chatting with his players. No pep talk. No pats on the back. No emotion. He looked like he was going through the motions. Another day at the office. I saw very little emotion and leadership in Allen today. 

 

If you look at stats and didn't see the game; I can see how you think he played "really well."  His intangibles were not good today. I disagree he played really well. The whole offense including Allen gets a D grade. 

7 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

Some post-game thoughts:

 

1.  I doubt we will find any replacements, by trade or otherwise, that are upgrades at this point for the players lost for the season due to injury.  If we could, not sure which position is most critical to prioritize.  All seem critical, which is really unfortunate going forward.

2.  Elam did not play well in coverage and missed tackles.  Ingram replaced him late in the game.  At this point, I am not optimistic that we will see improvement and there is a reason he has not been on the active roster in prior games.  I don't think he will be with the Bills at the start of next season.

3.  I don't think Cook is a three down back.  He is not blazing fast around the edge and he is not a power back.  He is a good receiver out of the backfield.  I know he had good stats up until this game, but I think we can do better at RB1.

4.  Bernard has been a pleasant surprise so far this season.  Interesting how well Moss has played for Indy.   Maybe Beane deserves less criticism for some of his recent picks, other than Elam (although it was clear that the Bills wanted McDuffie (KC), who has been great).

5.  I have not understood the Kincaid pick, particularly given his use so far this season.  Still think that a fast #3 WR was needed for the offense to open things up.  Unfortunately, Harty does not seem to be that guy.

6.  The injuries so far this season are incredibly depressing.  We only have played five games and we have lost three top defensive players for the season and maybe longer.

7.  I think McD has done a great job with the defense overall.  Given the injuries today and the players that missed the game due to injury, I thought the unit played about as well as they could have under the circumstances.

8.  The offensive play calling was poor today, or there was poor execution, or both.  The offense continues to be frustrating the way it is so up and down.  The offense was the reason we lost today.

Great post!

[BillzFreak]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Did he really play well? Serious question there. I don't think he played poorly at all. I thought he was ok but nothing really special or elite. I didn't see an it factor, a chip on his shoulder, or a lot of emotion. I never felt like he was going to lead the team to victory. He really didn't use his legs as a weapon or extend plays that led to huge plays. In fact, his two long throws to Diggs were under thrown which negated easy TDs. That's not playing really well. He's the leader of the offense and they sucked for three quarters. Diggs was the only one showing emotion on the sidelines. Meanwhile, we saw a muted Allen who almost looked distracted or disinterested. No Allen chatting with his players. No pep talk. No pats on the back. No emotion. He looked like he was going through the motions. Another day at the office. I saw very little emotion and leadership in Allen today. 

 

If you look at stats and didn't see the game; I can see how you think he played "really well."  His intangibles were not good today. I disagree he played really well. The whole offense including Allen gets a D grade. 

Awful take you blame dorsey for bad game planning and now Josh Allen for playing bad. If the game plan was bad and Allen still managed to actually have as good a game as he did what does that say to you? You're spinning in circles here so was Josh the issue or Dorsey?

[theRalph]

Sports science my ass. They should have flown days before. Then maybe you don't have four !@#$ punts to start on offense because you're not still in a daze from jet lag (which is terrible going East to the UK). Without the four punts, Milano probably doesn't get hurt because he wouldn't have been on the field for the entire first quarter. #PhuckingBillsy

 

OUt. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by theRalph

[BillsFan130]

10 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Did he really play well? Serious question there. I don't think he played poorly at all. I thought he was ok but nothing really special or elite. I didn't see an it factor, a chip on his shoulder, or a lot of emotion. I never felt like he was going to lead the team to victory. He really didn't use his legs as a weapon or extend plays that led to huge plays. In fact, his two long throws to Diggs were under thrown which negated easy TDs. That's not playing really well. He's the leader of the offense and they sucked for three quarters. Diggs was the only one showing emotion on the sidelines. Meanwhile, we saw a muted Allen who almost looked distracted or disinterested. No Allen chatting with his players. No pep talk. No pats on the back. No emotion. He looked like he was going through the motions. Another day at the office. I saw very little emotion and leadership in Allen today. 

 

If you look at stats and didn't see the game; I can see how you think he played "really well."  His intangibles were not good today. I disagree he played really well. The whole offense including Allen gets a D grade. 

Great post!

Maybe “really well” is to generous.

 

But he played well in my opinion.

 

What did he really do wrong? James cook had what, -4 yards rushing? so had no help in the rushing game.

 

I didn’t really see one mistake/poor decision by him.

 

On the INT he under threw diggs, but he also was chucking it 50 yards downfield with a guy in his face.

 

Dorsey had the wrong game plan for 2.5 quarters as it seemed like he was anticipating JAX playing a 2 deep shell, but they were taking away the run/underneath stuff. That ain’t on Josh

[Buffalo Barbarian]

There's another flag on the field

 

over -officious jerks !!!

 

 

1 minute ago, theRalph said:

Sports science my ass. They should have flown days before. Then maybe you don't have four !@#$ punts to start on offense because you're not still in a daze from jet lag (which is terrible going East to the UK). Without the four punts, Milano probably doesn't get hurt because he wouldn't have been on the field for the entire first quarter. #PhuckingBillsy

 

OUt. 

 

I got a thread for that

 

 

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, BillzFreak said:

Awful take you blame dorsey for bad game planning and now Josh Allen for playing bad. If the game plan was bad and Allen still managed to actually have as good a game as he did what does that say to you? You're spinning in circles here so was Josh the issue or Dorsey?

I never said Allen played bad. Reread my post please. I said he played ok and made the point that he didn't play really well. I stand behind what I said and tried to give some evidence to why. Feel free to disagree. Just please don't inaccurately paraphrase me. 

 

Dorsey sucked today. His offense had no creativity and was too predictable. He failed to use his tight ends as passing weapons, never called a screen, goes into shotgun on what could be running plays, didn't use Allen as a runner, continues to run Cook between the tackles, and fails to make good gametime adjustments. 

 

The issue is the offense which includes both Dorsey and Allen. I have no identity to the Bills offense. I'm afraid Dorsey doesn't either. 

 

Allen had no pep in his step today. He was emotionless throughout the game. I remember the Josh on the sidelines going up and the bench and sidelines giving his offensive players words of encouragement. I remember believing he's going to get the ball and lead the team to victory. I saw and felt none of that today. I saw an Allen going through the motions. Yes he's that good he can still put up numbers. He lacked intangibles today. I saw much more passion and spark from Diggs. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Need more puna Ford with how bad our run defense is

 

 

[Best Williams Available]

3 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

IMO Jones is the crushing loss (if he's out all year).  Oliver can play but without Jones I bet he'll be game planned for and disappear at times.  Phillips can't stay healthy if he's going starter reps and Settle has yet to do anything that moves a meter.

I agree. Jones is a one man wrecking crew who makes it easier for the rest of the line. The potential loss of the best playmakers at all 3 levels of D is crushing.

[BillzFreak]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

I never said Allen played bad. Reread my post please. I said he played ok and made the point that he didn't play really well. I stand behind what I said and tried to give some evidence to why. Feel free to disagree. Just please don't inaccurately paraphrase me. 

 

Dorsey sucked today. His offense had no creativity and was too predictable. He failed to use his tight ends as passing weapons, never called a screen, goes into shotgun on what could be running plays, didn't use Allen as a runner, continues to run Cook between the tackles, and fails to make good gametime adjustments. 

 

The issue is the offense which includes both Dorsey and Allen. I have no identity to the Bills offense. I'm afraid Dorsey doesn't either. 

 

Allen had no pep in his step today. He was emotionless throughout the game. I remember the Josh on the sidelines going up and the bench and sidelines giving his offensive players words of encouragement. I remember believing he's going to get the ball and lead the team to victory. I saw and felt none of that today. I saw an Allen going through the motions. Yes he's that good he can still put up numbers. He lacked intangibles today. I saw much more passion and spark from Diggs. 

So Josh had a sucky game plan to work with and did what he could. If dorsey sucked that bad how exactly was Josh supposed to fix that. That was the game plan they went over all week, should he just say f it and call his own plays then? I'm not here saying Josh was excellent today but if the game plan was as bad as you are saying I don't know what you expected Allen to do then.