Israel and Iran

[Einstein]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:52 AM, Justice said:

I can assure you of this country (I assume you’re American) ever gets occupied you will not love your oppressors. 

 

Historically speaking, the ancestors of Palestinians invaded and occupied Jewish land - not the other way around.

 

Dating back to 1,000 BC Jerusalem and Judah had been inhabited by the Jews. As far back as our current understanding of history exists, it has been Israeli and or Jewish land.

 

It wasn’t until 650 or so AD (1,650 years later) that the Muslim Caliphate left the Arab Peninsula to conquer the Byzantine empire and forcefully take over large areas of land by force, including Jerusalem and modern day Israel.

 

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Edited October 21, 2023 by Einstein

[Justice]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Historically speaking, the ancestors of Palestinians invaded and occupied Jewish land - not the other way around.

 

Dating back to 1,000 BC Jerusalem and Judah had been inhabited by the Jews. As far back as our current understanding of history exists, it has been Israeli and or Jewish land.

 

It wasn’t until 650 or so AD (1,650 years later) that the Muslim Caliphate left the Arab Peninsula to conquer the Byzantine empire and forcefully take over large areas of land by force, including Jerusalem and modern day Israel.

 

.

I’ve never denied that but 1,650 years is a long time. Are you serious with this post? 

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Justice said:

I’ve never denied that but 1,650 years is a long time. Are you serious with this post? 

 

1,650+ years is how long it was Israeli/Jewish land until it was forcefully occupied by Palestinian ancestors. 

 

In my opinion that matters, because it gives context to the current situation. Context is something that is sorely lacking in numerous facets of todays society.

 

It is disingenuous for people to state that Palestinians have been occupied when Israel has been stating for centuries “they occupied us!” 

[SCBills]

This is the content I’m here for…

 

 

[Justice]

38 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

1,650+ years is how long it was Israeli/Jewish land until it was forcefully occupied by Palestinian ancestors. 

 

In my opinion that matters, because it gives context to the current situation. Context is something that is sorely lacking in numerous facets of todays society.

 

It is disingenuous for people to state that Palestinians have been occupied when Israel has been stating for centuries “they occupied us!” 

Hypothetical question. If the Native Americans took their back from us somehow you don’t think we Americans would revolt? And after 75 years of it you don’t think our tactics would become more and more barbaric?

[Warcodered]

45 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

1,650+ years is how long it was Israeli/Jewish land until it was forcefully occupied by Palestinian ancestors. 

 

In my opinion that matters, because it gives context to the current situation. Context is something that is sorely lacking in numerous facets of todays society.

 

It is disingenuous for people to state that Palestinians have been occupied when Israel has been stating for centuries “they occupied us!” 

Guess we better give Mexico the bad news about needing to reform the Aztec Empire with the land they currently occupy, and I guess we'll trade places with the Native Americans and the tiny ass reservations we put them on instead of the continent they were spread across.

 

Context does matter and ignoring that the Palestinians had lived on that land at that point for generations themselves is just baffling. Hell if I remember correctly shouldn't we be looking for some Canaanites to give that land back to or did Israel already "take care" of that problem.

 

Reality is at this point both sides have a claim to live in the region, and they need to stop murdering each other unless that's just what they want their reality to be.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Warcodered

[Motorin']

59 minutes ago, Justice said:

I’ve never denied that but 1,650 years is a long time. Are you serious with this post? 

 

I mean, the Romans named the land area after the Jews ancient nemesis, the Philistines, in order to spite the Jews and erase their history in Judea. 

 

How do Palestinians pronounce Palestine? Philistine, right? 

[Justice]

21 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I mean, the Romans named the land area after the Jews ancient nemesis, the Philistines, in order to spite the Jews and erase their history in Judea. 

 

How do Palestinians pronounce Palestine? Philistine, right? 

 Very close. It’s falastine. 

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, Justice said:

Hypothetical question. If the Native Americans took their back from us somehow you don’t think we Americans would revolt? And after 75 years of it you don’t think our tactics would become more and more barbaric?

 

Sure. 

But in that case I certainly wouldn't be making the argument that Native Americans were colonizing "our" land. That would sound a bit tone-deaf... no?

 

18 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

if I remember correctly shouldn't we be looking for some Canaanites to give that land back to or did Israel already "take care" of that problem.

 

That is part of the reason Lebanon doesnt like Israel.
 

[Dukestreetking]

20 hours ago, Justice said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyoD_-jswVP/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

 

This should be all over the msm. We need to promote unity. 

Yeah, fair enough.

 

Mo Amer is pretty funny; seen him twice. Love the way he explains kos imak(!!)...and other Arabic swearing.

 

But, gun to head, who's he really supporting? I mean he's a Pal, wearing a friggin coat that mirrors the Pal keffiyeh.

 

If he showed up wearing a half-checked/half blue-white coat (or whatever) then I'd give him a little more credibility.

 

But, ok, I'll give him benefit of the doubt on this one.

[Einstein]

25 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I mean, the Romans named the land area after the Jews ancient nemesis, the Philistines, in order to spite the Jews and erase their history in Judea. 

 

That's right.

 

It was renamed Palaestina by Emperor Hadrian to ethnically cleanse Jewish identity from the territory.

[Motorin']

44 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Guess we better give Mexico the bad news about needing to reform the Aztec Empire with the land they currently occupy, and I guess we'll trade places with the Native Americans and the tiny ass reservations we put them on instead of the continent they were spread across.

 

Context does matter and ignoring that the Palestinians had lived on that land at that point for generations themselves is just baffling. Hell if I remember correctly shouldn't we be looking for some Canaanites to give that land back to or did Israel already "take care" of that problem.

 

Reality is at this point both sides have a claim to live in the region, and they need to stop murdering each other unless that's just what they want their reality to be.

 

The Jews have lived in the land of Judea continuously for over 3000 years. 

 

Most of the arab immigration to Israel began in an attempt to block the creation of the Jewish state post 1917... You know the Islamic law, something about any land ruled by the Quaran shall always be ruled by the Quaran. 

 

Likewise the notion of a Palestinian identity only emerged in an attempt to prevent the Jews from establishing a Jewish state in the 20th century. 

 

The entire region had been ruled from Turkey for hundreds of years. There was never a Palestinian state. 

 

Yes, there are legitimate grievances about being driven off of their land. But most of those people only flocked there in the first place to try block the establishment of Israel, and the 1948 removal of Arabs from areas in the West bank only happened after Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and others invaded Israel to try to stop it from coming into existence.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Motorin'

[Justice]

6 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Yeah, fair enough.

 

Mo Amer is pretty funny; seen him twice. Love the way he explains kos imak(!!)...and other Arabic swearing.

 

But, gun to head, who's he really supporting? I mean he's a Pal, wearing a friggin coat that mirrors the Pal keffiyeh.

 

If he showed up wearing a half-checked/half blue-white coat (or whatever) then I'd give him a little more credibility.

 

But, ok, I'll give him benefit of the doubt on this one.

He’s standing for those he thinks needs standing up for more. Israel has been given a green light to kill their adversary and anyone in their way. Palestinians weren’t given the same. Israel can wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth if they wanted to. Therefore Mo speaks up for those that are voiceless. He just wants peace like most of us. 

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Sure. 

But in that case I certainly wouldn't be making the argument that Native Americans were colonizing "our" land. That would sound a bit tone-deaf... no?

 

 

That is part of the reason Lebanon doesnt like Israel.
 

I think anyone that thinks the Jewish people don’t belong in that region are being unreasonable. 

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Jews have lived in the land of Judea continuously for over 3000 years. 

 

Most of the arab immigration to Israel began in an attempt to block the creation of the Jewish state post 1917... You know the Islamic law, something about any land ruled by the Quaran shall always be ruled by the Quaran. 

 

Likewise the notion of a Palestinian identity only emerged in an attempt to prevent the Jews from establishing a Jewish state in the 20th century. 

 

The entire region had been ruled from Turkey for hundreds of years. There was never a Palestinian state. 

 

Yes, there are legitimate grievances about being driven off of their land. But most of those people only flocked there in the first place to try block the establishment of Israel, and the 1948 removal of Arabs from areas in the West bank only happened after Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and others invaded Israel to try to stop it from coming into existence.

 

 

Right and nobody lived there earlier...

 

"I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the desert to the Euphrates River. I will give into your hands the people who live in the land, and you will drive them out before you. Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you."- Exodus 23:31–33

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Warcodered

[Justice]

29 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Jews have lived in the land of Judea continuously for over 3000 years. 

 

Most of the arab immigration to Israel began in an attempt to block the creation of the Jewish state post 1917... You know the Islamic law, something about any land ruled by the Quaran shall always be ruled by the Quaran. 

 

Likewise the notion of a Palestinian identity only emerged in an attempt to prevent the Jews from establishing a Jewish state in the 20th century. 

 

The entire region had been ruled from Turkey for hundreds of years. There was never a Palestinian state. 

 

Yes, there are legitimate grievances about being driven off of their land. But most of those people only flocked there in the first place to try block the establishment of Israel, and the 1948 removal of Arabs from areas in the West bank only happened after Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and others invaded Israel to try to stop it from coming into existence.

 

 

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out Arabs have been there all along as well. I mean it’s the Middle East right? The entire region is Arab. It defies all logic to suggest otherwise. At the end of the day enough generations of Arabs has passed for that to be their home. The very fact they’re called Palestinians to begin with gives it legitimacy. Palestinians need a Palestine. The Jewish people need an Israel. It’s pretty simple.
 

They can go on hating each other and fighting but that won’t be much of a life for any of them. The PA territory minus settlements would be good enough for most of us. Allow them to control their own borders, trade and everything else that goes along with having a state minus a military. That should be part of the agreement. No military so Israel can never feel threatened. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Justice

[Motorin']

23 minutes ago, Justice said:

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out Arabs have been there all along as well. I mean it’s the Middle East right? The entire region is Arab. It defies all logic to suggest otherwise. At the end of the day enough generations of Arabs has passed for that to be their home. The very fact they’re called Palestinians to begin with gives it legitimacy. Palestinians need a Palestine. The Jewish people need an Israel. It’s pretty simple.
 

They can go on hating each other and fighting but that won’t be much of a life for any of them. The PA territory minus settlements would be good enough for most of us. Allow them to control their own borders, trade and everything else that goes along with having a state minus a military. That should be part of the agreement. No military so Israel can never feel threatened. 

 

Israel would agree to that 75 years ago. And 50 years ago. And in a heart beat. 

 

They just don't believe the Arabs ever will truly be ok with Israel'S existence.  

 

With that said, I've seen enough of footage of the dead Arab women and children in Gaza to realize something has the change. It is heartbreaking, and I pray it ends soon. 

 

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Israel would agree to that 75 years ago. And 50 years ago. And in a heart beat. 

 

They just don't believe the Arabs ever will truly be ok with Israel'S existence.  

 

With that said, I've seen enough of footage of the dead Arab women and children in Gaza to realize something has the change. It is heartbreaking, and I pray it ends soon. 

 

Much more recent than 50 years ago actually.

In 2000 there was the Camp David Summit where Israel offered to relinquish 90% of the West Bank and all of Gaza. They also offered sovereignty of the dome of the rock, and agreed to establish Palestine as an official state, fully governed by Palestinians.

 

Palestinians rejected it.

As you mentioned, after that summit, Israel came away with the belief that Palestine will simply never be okay with Israel existing.

[Andy1]

The Palestinians will never get a better deal than what was offered in 2000. 

[Justice]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

Israel would agree to that 75 years ago. And 50 years ago. And in a heart beat. 

 

They just don't believe the Arabs ever will truly be ok with Israel'S existence.  

 

With that said, I've seen enough of footage of the dead Arab women and children in Gaza to realize something has the change. It is heartbreaking, and I pray it ends soon. 

 

What’s funny is they’re already completely surrounded by enemies and yet they not only exist but they’re thriving. I don’t think the Palestinians would make it any different. 
 

And I agree to an extent. The Palestinians wouldn’t make nor accept that offer. I would though. Gladly. 
 

Yes indeed. Innocent Palestinians and Israelis don’t deserve to die an early death. It’s tragic and devastating. 

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Much more recent than 50 years ago actually.

In 2000 there was the Camp David Summit where Israel offered to relinquish 90% of the West Bank and all of Gaza. They also offered sovereignty of the dome of the rock, and agreed to establish Palestine as an official state, fully governed by Palestinians.

 

Palestinians rejected it.

As you mentioned, after that summit, Israel came away with the belief that Palestine will simply never be okay with Israel existing.

The right of return and the assassination of Rabin were the major hiccups in the way to a peaceful negotiation. 
 

Arafat was short sighted and idiotic for not taking that deal. I guess he didn’t want to be seen as a sellout. All those ppl trying to get the right of return back will all be dead soon. What a stupid thing to fight over. 

[SCBills]

This murder could, of course, be unrelated .. but people are going to make assumptions.