Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: the unfortunate byproduct of a desirable place to be. there’s a reason you can buy a house in downtown Buffalo for less than a decent SUV. if you've got a good job, that's a good thing. I thought about moving back to Lewiston after a reunion there. But it was in the summer and I remembered the winters. The summer is excellent. The area is beautiful, the people are nice and the food is great. houses weren't cheap tho.... but we average less than 15 inches of snow per year even in the mountains here and it's home. 7 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Fact checked. All true. The deal they rejected in 2000 was the closest we’ve ever come or will ever come to a peace deal - they walked away essentially saying there’s never going to be a deal. nice map. for context, you might wanna mention the the state of Israel is only 70 years old...they exist because we and the British let them. On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day. Creation of Israel, 1948 - History State Gov U.S. Department of State (.gov) https://history.state.gov › milestones › creation-israel Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, sherpa said: From historical observation and a little knowledge of past aid including military to Israel, they are far more reluctant to agree to controls as precondition. They'll go a certain distance, but not nearly as far as other countries. Because of their history, they pretty much refuse to allow any other country to control their actions. They don't share intel beyond a very basic level, as they think the US is incapable of controlling leaks. See Operation Opera, the brilliant strike on the Baghdad nuclear plant, Operation Orchard, which was their undetected strike on a Syrian nuclear reactor, and Operation Thunderbolt, the Entebbe rescue mission which was probably the greatest rescue mission ever. The US knew nothing of these until completed. On a smaller scale, Operation Bayonet, which was the Mossad operation to assassinate all of the folks involved directly in the Munich Olympic killing of the Israeli team, and scores of other Mossad assassinations in the middle east and those targeting various Iranian nuclear program players. In addition, they not only modify specific weapons purchased from the US to suit their needs, they always resist any joint air to air exercises, which is the norm for the US and its other allies. The US has tried to engage in this, but they have never agreed, though they did send us gun camera film of their exploits. Anyway, they have a unique, singular attitude about agreeing to any restrictions. yes...so threaten to cut them off and do it if they don't comply. Do we need another rogue nuclear barbaric country in the world? btw, you couldn't pay me enough to live in NoVA... Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 48 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: yes...so threaten to cut them off and do it if they don't comply. Do we need another rogue nuclear barbaric country in the world? btw, you couldn't pay me enough to live in NoVA... If you "cut them off," the risk of a really bad outcome is multiplied. The US has been mostly comfortable with this long relationship, and has provided them significant support when they have been attacked, and that leverage has worked to end two wars when they had every opportunity to take over Damascus and Cairo. If Israel's existence is threatened, it is likely that they use their "Temple" weapons. They were about a day from getting into deployable situations during the Yom Kippur war. I can't imagine the danger involved in denying them support, especially against a group that not only wants to destroy the state of Israel but advocates ridding the entire earth of all Jews. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, sherpa said: If you "cut them off," the risk of a really bad outcome is multiplied. The US has been mostly comfortable with this long relationship, and has provided them significant support when they have been attacked, and that leverage has worked to end two wars when they had every opportunity to take over Damascus and Cairo. If Israel's existence is threatened, it is likely that they use their "Temple" weapons. They were about a day from getting into deployable situations during the Yom Kippur war. I can't imagine the danger involved in denying them support, especially against a group that not only wants to destroy the state of Israel but advocates ridding the entire earth of all Jews. there's risk to letting them run rogue too...they have nukes. they have vengeance. it's never going away and it's understandable but not a good combo...hell, we've interfered in other countries affairs in efforts to strengthen ourselves. why not Israel? there are greedy, dishonest, unethical pols there in abundance. they can be used...trump and kushner were doing just that but for personal gain, not national interest. Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: there's risk to letting them run rogue too...they have nukes. they have vengeance. it's never going away and it's understandable but not a good combo...hell, we've interfered in other countries affairs in efforts to strengthen ourselves. why not Israel? Israel has proven to be a responsible party regarding its nuclear capabilities for many years. While they don't talk about it, they've never signed non proliferation treaties, so its not like they lie about it. As trusted allies, we certainly influence them, but as I mentioned above, they are a bit different and will never compromise control of their sovereignty by being jawboned beyond what they think is reasonable. Not to move in a different direction, but what is really disturbing is that with their extremely strong history of sniffing this stuff out before it occurs, something has happened to diminish their intel capabilities in the occupied areas. They have always been very good at this, while the US has almost no HUMINT there and relies on technology which has not only been figured out how to deny, which isn't that tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, sherpa said: Israel has proven to be a responsible party regarding its nuclear capabilities for many years. While they don't talk about it, they've never signed non proliferation treaties, so its not like they lie about it. As trusted allies, we certainly influence them, but as I mentioned above, they are a bit different and will never compromise control of their sovereignty by being jawboned beyond what they think is reasonable. Not to move in a different direction, but what is really disturbing is that with their extremely strong history of sniffing this stuff out before it occurs, something has happened to diminish their intel capabilities in the occupied areas. They have always been very good at this, while the US has almost no HUMINT there and relies on technology which has not only been figured out how to deny, which isn't that tough. yes, epstein was killed in prison...kidding Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Why isn't Egypt opening its border with Gaza to let all the Palestinians out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 All by design…. The Israel-Hamas War Is Drowning X in Disinformation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) The Spy In the 1960s, Israeli clerk-turned-secret agent Eli Cohen goes deep undercover inside Syria on a perilous, years-long mission to spy for Mossad. Watch all you want. Sacha Baron Cohen ("Borat," "Da Ali G Show") takes a dramatic turn as real-life spy Eli Cohen in this thriller inspired by true events. I believe this is still on Netflix. if you haven't seen it, you should. Then read more about Eli Cohen....and his alias. Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Why isn't Egypt opening its border with Gaza to let all the Palestinians out? hmmm....maybe they don't want hamas garbage there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day. Creation of Israel, 1948 - History State Gov U.S. Department of State (.gov) https://history.state.gov › milestones › creation-israel while everyone knows what happened after ww2, this naive limited uneducated understanding omits the realities of history. that or when they wrote the Old Testament they will really prescient about this Israel place becoming a thing in thousands of years Edited October 10, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said: omits the realities of history. splain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said: it is way too late for that. Israel is obviously going to retaliate and innocent people are going to be killed all over the region. look, they can’t launch a terror attack and then not expect a response. If there are Palestinians that reject Hamas (not sure there is) then they should’ve kicked them out years ago it is likely too late. so why didn't we help them destroy hamas in Palestine long ago? wouldn't the Israelis want that too. Or would they? Nothing here is obvious. Deception is one of their most successful tactics... Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: it is likely too late. so why didn't we help them destroy hamas in Palestine? wouldn't the Israelis want that too. Or would they? Nothing here is obvious. Democracy. the Palestinians voted them in. and continue to. Jesus. here is Routers explaining what Hamas is. and calling the terrorism, a Suprise attack. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-is-palestinian-group-hamas-2023-10-07/ Edited October 10, 2023 by Tommy Callahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Democracy. the Palestinians voted them in. and continue to. Jesus. here is Routers explaining what Hamas is. and calling the terrorism, a Suprise attack. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-is-palestinian-group-hamas-2023-10-07/ Finally, you link a decent source...yes, that all looks correct to me. perhaps someone else here will critique it. Democracy my ass...it's a terrorist state as you and REUTERS said. But somehow in all the time since 1987, we couldn't infiltrate and take them down. Just a thought, but their presence kinda justifies Israel's terrible treatment of the Palestinians.... democracy trump style: The Hamas takeover of Gaza followed its win in Palestinian parliamentary elections in 2006 – the last time they were held. Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 19 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: Why isn't Egypt opening its border with Gaza to let all the Palestinians out? One of the uncomfortable realities regarding the actions of countries that constantly claim support for the Palestinians is that they've been throwing them out of their own lands. It's happened many times over many years. They "support" them as long as they don't have to deal with them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, sherpa said: One of the uncomfortable realities regarding the actions of countries that constantly claim support for the Palestinians is that they've been throwing them out of their own lands. It's happened many times over many years. They "support" them as long as they don't have to deal with them. out of morbid curiosity, do you believe Epstein might have been an Israeli spy? He certainly had access to powerful people and his mo was very similar to Cohens. It wouldn't be beneath the Israelis to use young girls to further their ends....No country in the middle east wears white cowboy hats... Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, sherpa said: One of the uncomfortable realities regarding the actions of countries that constantly claim support for the Palestinians is that they've been throwing them out of their own lands. It's happened many times over many years. They "support" them as long as they don't have to deal with them. Thank you. I just figured it's a point that the narrative keeps missing. its not just Israel that shares borders with Palestine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said: Because the Palestinian people do not reject Hamas. yes, that why they haven't had a parliamentary election since 2006. They just knew they would win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said: Hamas has been very popular among Palestinians especially in recent years link? how would we know. they haven't had an election in 17 years...but I agree. Many of the palestinians, at this point, want vengeance. hardly surprising. it didn't have to be this way. there'd still be fighting about something however. the culture of the entire region tends towards barbarism. Edited October 10, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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