Joe Ferguson forever Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago (edited) 3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Don't let them foool you. It's all about maintaining "order," in the Middle East to keep the oil supply flowing at reasonable prices. Its all just business. This continued strategy communicates the government analysts conclude oil and gas are going to be around for much longer than the renewable story being peddled to the public. Otherwise, we'd just get out of this snakepit. Ok. reasonable answer. but if Israel is militarily independent why do we need to help them? the outcomes will be the same with or without our help then Edited 19 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago 9 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Ok. reasonable answer. but if Israel is militarily independent why do we need to help them? the outcomes will be the same with or without our help then Good question. Some of it is a show of force to discourage Iran from taking action. And tactical support for operations. But it's not a good look to act as a mediator in trying to bring the parties together to negotiate a settlement while clearly taking one side over the other when things heat up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted 19 hours ago Share Posted 19 hours ago 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Good question. Some of it is a show of force to discourage Iran from taking action. And tactical support for operations. But it's not a good look to act as a mediator in trying to bring the parties together to negotiate a settlement while clearly taking one side over the other when things heat up. But once again, no deterrent is needed if Israel already has the capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted 14 hours ago Share Posted 14 hours ago Israel’s ceasefire plan: Blow terrorists up and they stop fighting. The best way to end a war is to win it, and winning generally means killing the enemy until they quit. https://donsurber.substack.com/p/getting-terrorists-to-cease-fire . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted 14 hours ago Share Posted 14 hours ago 15 minutes ago, B-Man said: Israel’s ceasefire plan: Blow terrorists up and they stop fighting. The best way to end a war is to win it, and winning generally means killing the enemy until they quit. https://donsurber.substack.com/p/getting-terrorists-to-cease-fire . The Middle East is like when I used to fight with my younger brother. We would fight and then get tired and be like ok truce and go to shake hands but then I would kick him in the junk and it would start all over again. Just imagine that for thousands of years and that's the Middle East 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago 19 minutes ago, K D said: The Middle East is like when I used to fight with my younger brother. We would fight and then get tired and be like ok truce and go to shake hands but then I would kick him in the junk and it would start all over again. Just imagine that for thousands of years and that's the Middle East Not quite. You weren't trying to kill him. Iran's surrogate militias are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago (edited) 46 minutes ago, sherpa said: Not quite. You weren't trying to kill him. Iran's surrogate militias are. The Israelis aren't using rubber bullets either. why do we send aid to Israel if they can independently protect themself? Do you agree with All Pro that this is about fossil fuel and business? Those are our interests here? When he said "don't let them fool you", I think he meant you. Edited 12 hours ago by Joe Ferguson forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago 34 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: The Israelis aren't using rubber bullets either. why do we send aid to Israel if they can independently protect themself? Do you agree with All Pro that this is about fossil fuel and business? Those are our interests here? When he said "don't let them fool you", I think he meant you. Because unlike Ukraine, Israel is our Allie. We should and will protect our allies. Do you have a problem with helping our allies defend themselves against terrorists? That would be weird if you do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago 3 minutes ago, Westside said: Because unlike Ukraine, Israel is our Allie. We should and will protect our allies. Do you have a problem with helping our allies defend themselves against terrorists? That would be weird if you do. they don't need it according to Sherpa. It would be analogous to giving tax breaks to wealthy people. So yes, I'm against it. Oh and Ukraine is an ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago (edited) 48 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: The Israelis aren't using rubber bullets either. why do we send aid to Israel if they can independently protect themself? Do you agree with All Pro that this is about fossil fuel and business? Those are our interests here? When he said "don't let them fool you", I think he meant you. I don't care to guess who he meant, but I don't agree with view that supporting Israel has to do with oil supply. In fact, I don't know how that point can be defended, but anyway, not my issue. What you do in these recent posts is falsely claim a point never made. What I stated is this: "Clearly, if we stopped supporting them they would lose capability, over time. But, Israel is quite capable of handling it's military needs for a period of time." There are three basic components to war. Strategic, tactical and logistical. The Israelis don't have any strategic or tactical need from the US. They have great systems and great planning. One would have to be completely ignorant of the history of the Six Day war or Yom Kippur to not conclude this. What they do require, since they are surrounded by many countries who are trying to kill them, is logistical support. They have nowhere near the size of economy to develop and produce a capable air force fighter, among other things. They have limited ability in electronic warfare, and very limited air to air refueling capability. They are brilliant producers of electronics, medical products and advanced technological devices. They also develop what weapons they buy from us into into variations that suit their needs. They also have an incredible on the the ground human intel component, which allows them to succeed in doing things like they have done in the past two weeks, since snubbed by the US administration. 7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: they don't need it according to Sherpa. It would be analogous to giving tax breaks to wealthy people. So yes, I'm against it. Oh and Ukraine is an ally. Stop the stupid BS. Edited 12 hours ago by sherpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted 12 hours ago Share Posted 12 hours ago 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: What they do require, since they are surrounded by many countries who are trying to kill them, is logistical support. They have nowhere near the size of economy to develop and produce a capable air force fighter, among other things. They have limited ability in electronic warfare, and very limited air to air refueling capability. ok, so not independently capable indefinitely. So, if they do need our money and logistical support, we need something in return. That would be influence over their military operations using our resources. You act shocked at this take while almost half the country is going to vote for a man that sees everything in economic transactional terms, especially alliances like NATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted 11 hours ago Share Posted 11 hours ago 10 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: ok, so not independently capable indefinitely. So, if they do need our money and logistical support, we need something in return. That would be influence over their military operations using our resources. You act shocked at this take while almost half the country is going to vote for a man that sees everything in economic transactional terms, especially alliances like NATO. This has gotten too stupid to continue. Not interested in the least about thread creep to discuss our election. We don't control Israel. They are a fierce and capable ally, our only truly reliable one in that area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted 11 hours ago Share Posted 11 hours ago 22 hours ago, Roundybout said: Biden’s foreign policy is very poor. He is not able to control Bibi from his dream of WW3 in the Middle East Sounds good, just don’t you f-ing dare to say the GOP is the party of “world peace” then. Just like we can dispense with the notion that Islam is the “religion of peace.” 21 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Bibi ignoring our requests is much worse than our "insults". He wants war to solidify his tenuous position and to take out Irans Nuke sites. I'm not at all sure that he is an ally. Don't trust him at all. No more than the murderous Saudi prince trump likes so much. Middle east is full of despotic, evil leaders right now. We all should want Israel to take out Iran’s nuke sites. And I hope they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted 11 hours ago Share Posted 11 hours ago 44 minutes ago, Doc said: We all should want Israel to take out Iran’s nuke sites. And I hope they do. A very difficult task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted 10 hours ago Share Posted 10 hours ago 1 hour ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: they don't need it according to Sherpa. It would be analogous to giving tax breaks to wealthy people. So yes, I'm against it. Oh and Ukraine is an ally. Hoax. Ukraine is not and have never been our Allie. What the hell does helping our allies in their time of need have to do with tax breaks to the rich? Totally horrible analogy. You’re letting your antisemitism get in the way of rational thinking. You're so full of hate it’s actually quite sad. Your life must really suck. Maybe it’s not as great as you claim it to be. 🤷🏻 You’re very weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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