All_Pro_Bills Posted April 11 Posted April 11 17 hours ago, Tiberius said: Trump shouldn't have pulled out of the nuclear deal. Now Iran is on the way to a bomb much sooner That nuclear deal was a sham. It was we pretend to not be developing atomic weapons and you pretend to be watching us not do it. 1 1
Tiberius Posted April 11 Author Posted April 11 7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: That nuclear deal was a sham. It was we pretend to not be developing atomic weapons and you pretend to be watching us not do it. No, it actually worked. We had monitors, they were not making a bomb, then Trump pulled us out, and now they are making a bomb. Pretty straight forward 1
sherpa Posted April 11 Posted April 11 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, it actually worked. We had monitors, they were not making a bomb, then Trump pulled us out, and now they are making a bomb. Pretty straight forward No. They never stopped. They were able to hide it a bit better, but they never stopped. Very similar to the "Agreed Framework," with North Korea, negotiated by Carter without advice from the Clinton Administration. North Korea didn't stop, and Iran didn't either. Edited April 11 by sherpa 1 1
Tiberius Posted April 11 Author Posted April 11 Just now, sherpa said: No. They never stopped. They were able to hide it a bit better, but they never stopped. Very similar to the "Agreed Framework," negotiated by Carter without advice from the Clinton Administration. North Korea didn't stop, and Iran didn't either. Got any proof? 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 11 Posted April 11 30 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, it actually worked. We had monitors, they were not making a bomb, then Trump pulled us out, and now they are making a bomb. Pretty straight forward No really. They were faking it all along. 1
Tiberius Posted April 11 Author Posted April 11 1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said: No really. They were faking it all along. Sure, I believe you 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 11 Posted April 11 Just now, Tiberius said: Sure, I believe you As much as I believe you too. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted April 11 Posted April 11 Stuxnet was in 2010. the planning spanned Bush and Obamas term. Stuxnet explained: The first known cyberweapon | CSO Online Who created Stuxnet? It’s now widely accepted that Stuxnet was created by the intelligence agencies of the United States and Israel. Stuxnet was first identified by the infosec community in 2010, but development on it probably began in 2005. The U.S. and Israeli governments intended Stuxnet as a tool to derail, or at least delay, the Iranian program to develop nuclear weapons. The classified program to develop the worm was given the code name “Operation Olympic Games“; it was begun under President George W. Bush and continued under President Obama. While neither government has ever officially acknowledged developing Stuxnet, a 2011 video created to celebrate the retirement of Israeli Defense Forces head Gabi Ashkenazi listed Stuxnet as one of the successes under his watch. However, he explained that a lot about code could be understood from examining the binary in action and reverse-engineering it. For instance, he says, “it was pretty obvious from the first time we analyzed this app that it was looking for some Siemens equipment.” Eventually, after three to six months of reverse engineering, “we were able to determine, I would say, 99 percent of everything that happens in the code,” O’Murchu said.
sherpa Posted April 11 Posted April 11 48 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Got any proof? Yes. I have proof that I keep in my basement. The Iranian nuclear program was unable to hide their nuclear program from me. Seriously, there are intel sources I trust way more than political hacks in the US. Israel has far better capability in that area than we do, and they determined the program was ongoing. Further, this so called JCPOA was negotiated by John Kerry, who has loves the camera far more than he likes deals that are actually effective. He's another Dem wind bag who has publicity interests that outweigh his patriotism, and it's been that way since his Viet Nam service. The JCPOA guaranteed that Iran would develop a nuclear weapon over time. Clearly, Trump doing what he did removed speed bumps in that process, but they are NEVER going to abandon their nuc weapon program. They can be stopped, but it involves a lot of kinetic energy that is unpleasant. That's the reality. 1
Justice Posted April 11 Posted April 11 2 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: And at the same time you have no issue with Netanyahu giving them millions. Also they knew the funds were going through Qatar and allowed it. 1 hour ago, sherpa said: No. They never stopped. They were able to hide it a bit better, but they never stopped. Very similar to the "Agreed Framework," with North Korea, negotiated by Carter without advice from the Clinton Administration. North Korea didn't stop, and Iran didn't either. But you’re ok with Israel having them. Got it.
Justice Posted April 11 Posted April 11 5 minutes ago, sherpa said: Yes. I have proof that I keep in my basement. The Iranian nuclear program was unable to hide their nuclear program from me. Seriously, there are intel sources I trust way more than political hacks in the US. Israel has far better capability in that area than we do, and they determined the program was ongoing. Further, this so called JCPOA was negotiated by John Kerry, who has loves the camera far more than he likes deals that are actually effective. He's another Dem wind bag who has publicity interests that outweigh his patriotism, and it's been that way since his Viet Nam service. The JCPOA guaranteed that Iran would develop a nuclear weapon over time. Clearly, Trump doing what he did removed speed bumps in that process, but they are NEVER going to abandon their nuc weapon program. They can be stopped, but it involves a lot of kinetic energy that is unpleasant. That's the reality. We’ve been hearing Iran is months away from having a nuclear bomb for years… https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRT7LVXX/
Tiberius Posted April 11 Author Posted April 11 20 minutes ago, sherpa said: Yes. Clearly, Trump doing what he did removed speed bumps in that process, Glad you agree with me. Trump sped up Iran's nuclear program. That's all I said Really, you should control your emotions better, they lead to silly back peddling and tortured logic to simply arrive at what I was saying anyway
sherpa Posted April 11 Posted April 11 17 minutes ago, Justice said: But you’re ok with Israel having them. Got it. Yep. I am absolutely OK with Israel having them, as I am with the US. A regime which routinely promises to rid the world of the nation of Israel is a different story. A nation that has a main square in it's capitol that has a countdown clock to mark the end of Israel. A nation run by wacky religious nuts who treat one gender as inferior, to the point of executing them for clothing is, in my mind, not one that I hope had the ability to deliver a nuclear warhead to it's avowed enemy, who isn't bothering it at all. No problem with Israel having them at all. No problem with Israel brilliantly taking out Iraqi and Syrian nuc facilities. 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Glad you agree with me. Trump sped up Iran's nuclear program. That's all I said Really, you should control your emotions better, they lead to silly back peddling and tortured logic to simply arrive at what I was saying anyway You do this stupid nonsense of claiming that people are angry or emotional. You don't have that capability to effect that with anyone, certainly not me. Further, I disagree with you immensely on this issue. 2
Tiberius Posted April 11 Author Posted April 11 2 minutes ago, sherpa said: Further, I disagree with you immensely on this issue. Your emotion is clouding your already faulty reasoning. You agree with me. Speed bumps removed. Yes! 1
Justice Posted April 11 Posted April 11 1 minute ago, sherpa said: Yep. I am absolutely OK with Israel having them, as I am with the US. A regime which routinely promises to rid the world of the nation of Israel is a different story. A nation that has a main square in it's capitol that has a countdown clock to mark the end of Israel. A nation run by wacky religious nuts who treat one gender as inferior, to the point of executing them for clothing is, in my mind, not one that I hope had the ability to deliver a nuclear warhead to it's avowed enemy, who isn't bothering it at all. No problem with Israel having them at all. No problem with Israel brilliantly taking out Iraqi and Syrian nuc facilities. It’s hypocritical. Guess you never heard of the Samson Option. I also guess you never heard what many Jewish people said about Christians and how they spit on them. They hate Muslims and Christians. Every accusation is a confession with these people. ‘Iran will use the nukes’ B word so will you. Foh. 2 1
sherpa Posted April 11 Posted April 11 2 minutes ago, Justice said: It’s hypocritical. Guess you never heard of the Samson Option. You are quite incorrect. I am very familiar with the Samson option, to a degree of what I think they actually possess, and their reluctance to use it, although they were a day away from moving in that direction under Golda Meir. So.....You're wrong. 1
sherpa Posted April 11 Posted April 11 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Your emotion is clouding your already faulty reasoning. You agree with me. Speed bumps removed. Yes! I have no emotion. This is a repeated fallacy that you continuously claim. BS now. BS always. Of of your nonsense claims, and back to the issue, Iran never stopped developing their nuclear capability and they never will as long as the current theocratic lunatics are in place. Moving the date of this confrontation, however that occurs, is not really that meaningful. The Obama/Kerry JCPOA might have changed the date, but it delivered inevitability, which may have been less desirable. Something is going to happen with them, and it doesn't matter who is in power in the US executive. They are sworn to it, believe it to be determined by their god, and their god given mission, and are tracking in that direction. They are either overthrown internally, or engaged externally, but the path is clear, and not pleasant. 2
Justice Posted April 11 Posted April 11 (edited) 29 minutes ago, sherpa said: You are quite incorrect. I am very familiar with the Samson option, to a degree of what I think they actually possess, and their reluctance to use it, although they were a day away from moving in that direction under Golda Meir. So.....You're wrong. I said “I guess”, because logic dictates if you knew then you shouldn’t have the stance you have regarding Israel having nukes. Here is a country more than willing to use them and you’re ok with it. So yes it’s hypocritical. And let us not forget how they obtained those nukes in the first place. They most likely obtained that knowledge from the people that made ours and that method was most likely illegal. With allies like that who needs enemies? Edited April 11 by Justice 1
sherpa Posted April 11 Posted April 11 5 minutes ago, Justice said: I said “I guess”, because logic dictates if you knew then you shouldn’t have the stance you have regarding Israel having nukes. Here is a country more than willing to use them and you’re ok with it. So yes it’s hypocritical. And let us not forget how they obtained those nukes in the first place. They most likely obtained that knowledge from the people that made ours and that method was most likely illegal. With allies like that who needs enemies? I have no issue with Israel having them. I am aware of when they achieved that capability and aware of the restraint since then. Israel was attacked on the first day of its existence by a multi nation consortium. They have been threatened and attacked ever since. They are not going to be eliminated without massive response. That is the reality and I have no problem with that posture. On the other hand, I have serious concerns about a lunatic regime that does little other than export death and terror. I wish the majority of sane people there would get rid of their scourge, but the don't seem willing. Additionally, there seems to be pretty good evidence that the rogue group with significant weapon access, the IRGC, is somewhat uncontrolled. This is going to get hotter. The Biden admin should authorize the US Navy to sink the Iranian ship that is providing targeting information, and they should sink it yesterday. Daily defending against attacks on shipping is a foolish posture, and further encourages them. 4
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