Israel and Iran

[Tiberius]

33 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Putin has been using Iranian drones against the Ukrainians.

 

like a win, win?

 

 

Iran is both the enemy of Ukraine and Israel. Common ground there 

[Tiberius]

Ending the war in Gaza is needed to calm people the f down. Nazis and Jihadist are joining forces to cause this nightmare. 

 

Hopefully no more Nazis like the Tree of life mass murderer appear. 

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/us/jewish-facilities-bomb-threats/index.html

 

Serhii Khomiak/Adobe Stock

CNN — 

More than 400 Jewish facilities across the US have received false bomb threats over email since Saturday, according to the Anti-Defamation League, an international Jewish non-profit organization.

Oren Segal, Vice President of the Center on Extremism at the Anti-Defamation League, told CNN they believe one person or a small number of individuals were behind the series of threats.

The email messages contained several similarities, Segal – who had seen the messages – told CNN, including the nature of the alleged threats, and variations in the name of a group claiming to be responsible for them.

While the threats were all deemed to be hoaxes, Segal added, “the Jewish community doesn’t take any threat lightly. We don’t have the luxury to ignore them.”

The Secure Community Network, a non-profit tracking threats against Jewish communities, earlier reported more than 200 bomb threats and “swatting calls” were made against Jewish institutions.

[Tommy Callahan]

Adl and CNN highlights the outliers while saying the mobs calling for the end of Israel is blowback. 

[B-Man]

 

[Justice]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:56 AM, B-Man said:

 

You know we live in a crazy world when Bill Maher is a voice of sanity. But these days, that is sometimes true. On his show last night, Maher gave viewers a history lesson and explained why the path of “resistance” for Arabs and their useful idiots on American campuses is futile. He’s wrong about a few things, but even if it’s not perfect, given his audience this is a pretty powerful dose of truth:

 

 

 

Oh yeah just move on. Forget about your country and heritage and lands. Never mind all that nonsense. Besides you won’t lose all

your culture anyways… the Israelis stole that too so at least you can still enjoy your clothing, food, and music. Just give up! 
 

 

As for the tunnels of course they exist. Israel built many of them. 

[The Frankish Reich]

8 minutes ago, Justice said:

Oh yeah just move on. Forget about your country and heritage and lands. Never mind all that nonsense. Besides you won’t lose all

your culture anyways… the Israelis stole that too so at least you can still enjoy your clothing, food, and music. Just give up! 
 

 

As for the tunnels of course they exist. Israel built many of them. 

I watched Maher's season-ending monologue. I think this mischaracterizes his point. 

He was saying that the "river to the sea" rhetoric is just not productive now. Israel will not cease to exist. The Jews in Israel will not move/be moved elsewhere. Israel will continue to exist.

So the point was this: knowing that, acknowledging that, what can we do that is productive? He pointed out that Arafat shot down the Clinton brokered plan back in 2000, a plan that would have created a real Palestinian state with control over the vast majority of disputed territory. And that since that time there really hasn't been a viable two-state solution plan advanced by either side - not by the increasingly militant, West Bank settler-driven Israelis, nor by anything resembling leadership among the Palestinians.

It wasn't "move on from your dream of having your own country." It was "move on from your fantasy of taking control of the entirety of the West Bank AND the entirety of Israel.

[Justice]

Wanted to get this on record. I absolutely hate the “from the river to the sea” slogan. I even argue the meaning with some of my Palestinian friends and family. They try to explain it doesn’t mean to rid the world of Israel but it sure sounds like it. It’s idiotic. 

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I watched Maher's season-ending monologue. I think this mischaracterizes his point. 

He was saying that the "river to the sea" rhetoric is just not productive now. Israel will not cease to exist. The Jews in Israel will not move/be moved elsewhere. Israel will continue to exist.

So the point was this: knowing that, acknowledging that, what can we do that is productive? He pointed out that Arafat shot down the Clinton brokered plan back in 2000, a plan that would have created a real Palestinian state with control over the vast majority of disputed territory. And that since that time there really hasn't been a viable two-state solution plan advanced by either side - not by the increasingly militant, West Bank settler-driven Israelis, nor by anything resembling leadership among the Palestinians.

It wasn't "move on from your dream of having your own country." It was "move on from your fantasy of taking control of the entirety of the West Bank AND the entirety of Israel.

I didn’t even get to read, and still haven’t in all, when I posted what I said about that slogan lol 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Justice

[Justice]

Now that I have read it in all he definitely meant that. He said many people have been moved off their lands in the past. He also said Israel isn’t going anywhere so that obviously implies the Palestinians are those that should move. 
 

It can be argued and has been by many that Arafat wasn’t the only one to blame for the peace process falling apart and the Israelis are equal in blame. Either way he should have unequivocally accepted that deal. He was a shortsighted idiot for that. Maybe some ego and pride was involved in his decision too. Idk. 

[sherpa]

12 minutes ago, Justice said:

Maybe some ego and pride was involved in his decision too. Idk. 

 

He was making a lot of money off of the situation.

 

There seems to be an extreme resistance among the Islamic/Arab world to ever be the first to agree to a serious agreement leading to a long term coexistence with Israel.

The Sadat lesson was learned.

[Justice]

25 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

He was making a lot of money off of the situation.

 

There seems to be an extreme resistance among the Islamic/Arab world to ever be the first to agree to a serious agreement leading to a long term coexistence with Israel.

The Sadat lesson was learned.

Yeah true. Maybe. Sure. Maybe the Rabin lesson was learned as well… no? 

[B-Man]

 

 

To Win This War, We Cannot Be Distracted by the New York Times

RABBI MICHAEL BARCLAY 

 

A recent New York Times article goes into detail about the financial machinations of Hamas over the last decade, and posits that the Israeli government and Benjamin Netanyahu not only knew about the hundreds of millions of dollars that were being funneled into Hamas, but allowed it to happen in the hope that financial success in Gaza would keep peace.

 

Written by Jo Becker, the article uses many sources, including ex-Mossad personnel. Becker is an investigative reporter for the Times, having won Pulitzer Prizes for exposing Dick Cheney’s hidden power in 2008, for a series of articles in  2017 about Vladimir Putin’s efforts to undermine the 2016 election, and for stories in 2018 about Russian influence on the Trump administration.  She additionally wrote a book in 2014 about “marriage equality,” detailing the legal battle to get same-sex marriage before the Supreme Court. The book was endorsed by LGBT activist David Mixner for “capturing our struggle for freedom perfectly”.

 

 What matters about this New York Times article is not whether it is totally accurate or not. The reality is that it is a distraction from what is important. The information in it doesn't matter: our response needs to be the same whether it is accurate or inaccurate. The information that she shares in the article must be ignored… for now.

 

 But, Rabbi, you may ask, how can we ignore something like this? It is possible that their funding sources contributed greatly to allowing Hamas to attack?  We have to hold people responsible, and there must be investigations.

 

 There will be a time to investigate Becker’s findings.  But that is not--and cannot--be now.

 

Whatever mistakes were made in the past are inconsequential right now. Israel is at war with an enemy that is truly evil.  An enemy that must not only be defeated, but utterly destroyed. As long as Hamas exists in any form, their commitment to the destruction of Israel also exists; and like Amalek, Hamas must have "their remembrance be blotted off the earth" (Deut. 25:19). We must remember that Israel is just the front line in their war against the world in an attempt to create a global Islamic theocracy.

 

 We have a war for our survival to win right now. We cannot allow ourselves to be distracted by anything that takes us away from that goal.

 

https://pjmedia.com/rabbi-michael-barclay/2023/12/16/to-win-this-war-we-cannot-be-distracted-by-the-new-york-times-n4924811

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, Justice said:

Yeah true. Maybe. Sure. Maybe the Rabin lesson was learned as well… no? 

 

I think the contrast in history of attempted resolution is as clear as the history of achievement between the cultures.

The Israelis are not free of guilt.

In no way does their history compare to the barbarism and total dependence on leveraging civilian deaths as a military strategy.

That is Hamas, and Hezbollah, and there is no current leader or vector in the Arab world to change course.

[B-Man]

 

 

Gaza Hospital Boss Admits He’s a Hamas
Commander, Used Medical Facility as Terror Base

by Ari Blaff

 

Ahmed al-Kahlout, the manager of the Kamel Adnan Hospital in northern Gaza, admitted during an interrogation with Israeli security forces that Hamas used the medical facilities to advance its military operations. “I know 16 employees in the hospital — doctors, nurses, paramedics and clerks — who also have different positions in the Qassam Brigades,” Kahlout told Israel’s Shin Bet in a video clip released on Tuesday afternoon, referring to the military of Hamas. “They hide in hospitals because, for them, a hospital is a safe place.” Kahlout, whose hospital is located in the Jabaliya neighborhood of northern Gaza, explained to Israeli security officials, “They [Hamas] won’t be targeted

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gaza-hospital-boss-admits-hes-a-hamas-commander-used-medical-facility-as-terror-base/

 

.

[Tiberius]

Yup 

 

 

Oceana has always been at war with Eurasia 

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/19/middleeast/netanyahu-hamas-war-mission-reelected-intl/index.html

From the United Nations to NGOs and even influencers, critics of the way Israel is waging war against Hamas in Gaza are not in short supply; even US President Joe Biden has decried its “indiscriminate bombing.” But if there’s one area where Israel is arguably beyond reproach, it’s in the consistency of its stated war aims:

• Destroy Hamas so it can’t fulfil its goal of repeating the October 7 massacre. 
• Bring back the remaining hostages held by Hamas.

There are other aims, such as reestablishing deterrence to Israel’s foes, and reassuring Israelis the state can still protect them. But those were the main ones – until last week.

In recent days, a third objective has unashamedly wormed its way into the open: getting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reelected.

It began in earnest about a week ago, when US calls were growing for the Palestinian Authority (PA), which administers parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank, to take control of post-war Gaza. Netanyahu’s response: Not on my watch.

In comments to lawmakers, the prime minister claimed the Oslo Accords – a series of pacts between Israel and the Palestinians which laid the groundwork for discussions on a possible future Palestinian state, and which he previously said he would honor — had caused as many deaths as Hamas’ October 7 massacre, “though over a longer period”.

Later that day, Netanyahu – whose reputation as “Mr. Security” lies in tatters, and whose popularity has plunged – was at it again.

“Gaza will be neither Hamastan nor Fatahstan,” he said, referring to Fatah, the largest Palestinian faction, which was instrumental in the signing of the Oslo Accords, and continues to control the PA, which administers parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

[sherpa]

This Houthi thing.

 

While cooperating nations have announced joint support in protecting Red Sea-Bab el Mandeb Strait-Gulf of Aden shipping, I'm afraid we need to go a step further.  This silly named operation "Prosperity Guardian" is an ill conceived plan that begs for more aggression from Iranian proxies.

 

The concept is to provide an umbrella coverage of commercial shipping in those international waters. Already, commercial shippers have re-routed ships around Africa to avoid this, and are bearing 3x insurance costs. Long term the additional 3-4 weeks to sail these unplanned distances will obliterate shipping schedules and result in supply chain issues.

 

Militarily, the strategy makes no sense.

This past weekend, if sources are to be believed, the US Navy destroyed 14 Iranian drones launched from Yemen. The cost of those drones is about $20k/per. The cost of the missiles used to destroy them is about $2.5 million per.

 

The proper choice is obvious, and goes back to the age old military strategy of "shoot the Indian, not the arrow."

(cultural sensitivities acknowledged).

 

The point is that with the carrier Eisenhower repositioned much closer to, or in, the Gulf of Aden, it is time to use the US Navy to do what it is in existence for, which is to protect shipping.

 

If the US has the intel to determine where these drones/cruise/ballistic missiles are being launched from in Yemen, it is time to go ashore and demolish those sites.

I am not a fan of this administration at all, but another weekend of wasting US taxpayer's money is not justified.

Time to go "feet dry," as we used to say. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by sherpa

[yall]

11 minutes ago, sherpa said:

This Houthi thing.

 

While cooperating nations have announced joint support in protecting Red Sea-Bab el Mandeb Strait-Gulf of Aden shipping, I'm afraid we need to go a step further.  This silly named operation "Prosperity Guardian" is an ill conceived plan that begs for more aggression from Iranian proxies.

 

The concept is to provide an umbrella coverage of commercial shipping in those international waters. Already, commercial shippers have re-routed ships around Africa to avoid this, and are bearing 3x insurance costs. Long term the additional 3-4 weeks to sail these unplanned distances will obliterate shipping schedules and result in supply chain issues.

 

Militarily, the strategy makes no sense.

This past weekend, if sources are to be believed, the US Navy destroyed 14 Iranian drones launched from Yemen. The cost of those drones is about $20k/per. The cost of the missiles used to destroy them is about $2.5 million per.

 

The proper choice is obvious, and goes back to the age old military strategy of "shoot the Indian, not the arrow."

(cultural sensitivities acknowledged).

 

The point is that with the carrier Eisenhower repositioned much closer to, or in, the Gulf of Aden, it is time to use the US Navy to do what it is in existence for, which is to protect shipping.

 

If the US has the intel to determine where these drones/cruise/ballistic missiles are being launched from in Yemen, it is time to go ashore and demolish those sites.

I am not a fan of this administration at all, but another weekend of wasting US taxpayer's money is not justified.

Time to go "feet dry," as we used to say. 

It's probably a matter of optics and not giving the impression of widening the conflict. 

 

Not sure I agree with that approach but I understand the motivation to hang back (assuming my take is correct).

 

I'd be shocked if we didn't know the exact location of every launch site. I'm with you in that I'd prefer we put that Intel to good use.

[sherpa]

10 minutes ago, yall said:

It's probably a matter of optics and not giving the impression of widening the conflict. 

 

I get your point, but the conflict has been widened.

Interfering with navigation of non combatants in international waters is war. They have gone beyond interfering. They are attacking them.

Optics be damned.

Time to make a stand and stop putting up with this.

If we don't the message will be sent to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard regarding the Strait of Hormuz.

The Administration is putting the Navy in an unnecessary defensive position.

It is time to get offensive re the Houthi group launching missiles against non combatant merchant ships.

[Tiberius]

29 minutes ago, yall said:

It's probably a matter of optics and not giving the impression of widening the conflict. 

 

Yup, people will ask, "Another Middle Eastern war?" 

 

Saw one fellow saying if we just let them know we have an eye directly on them, they might just feel they are being targeted and might stop. Who knows. Try that first, then take it to the next step. Something needs to be done, though. This is outrageous

[sherpa]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Saw one fellow saying if we just let them know we have an eye directly on them, they might just feel they are being targeted and might stop. Who knows. Try that first, then take it to the next step. Something needs to be done, though. This is outrageous

 

Could not disagree with this more.

Doing nothing offensive does nothing other than invite more or this.

 

There is an old military axiom. You don't build something, just so you can defend it.

 

We need to move mud in Yemen, and we need to do it now rather than put up with another defense of 14 x $20k missiles using 16 x $2.5m missiles.

Innocent non combatants are in jeopardy, and sailors from the cooperative nations are sitting on their hands waiting to be attacked instead of  using what they are capable of to eliminate the threat.

[Tommy Callahan]