Israel and Iran

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, yall said:

Care to elaborate?

That was it.  Sometimes he goes with yada yada, but spell-check changes it to yoga yoga, and that’s gibberish. 

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

Just a thought.

I found out today that Eisenhower is in the Persian Gulf.

Putting a carrier task force in the Persian Gulf is a lot different than operating east of the Strait of Hormuz, in the northern Indian Ocean.

For a carrier, it's like fighting in a phone booth, when the other option gives you just as much offensive capability.

Very limited response times and constant alert status requirements.

 

This is a very dangerous operating area vis a vis Iran, and tells me one of two things:

 

The US is challenging Iran to make a first move, fully confident that it will lead to a repeated destruction of the Iranian Navy, as happened in Operation Preying Mantis, or:

The US believes that Iran will never support a Hamas/Hezbollah operation that would trigger US direct involvement against Iran.

 

I think Iran will continue to use pin-prick surrogate operations, but is de facto, backing down. 

 

As an aside, Ford needs to be relieved and get those folks home, or there will be a very undesirable price paid.

 

Thanks for this.  
 

Can you elaborate on “…very undesirable price paid”?  Are you thinking exhausted, overworked people make mistakes? 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said:

English?

Tibsy took a page out of German nationalism.  

 

“Deutschland über alles” is the national anthem of Germany.  Probably more than a little distasteful to insert Israel into the sentence, but it goes a long way towards explaining his disdain for Israel. 
 

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/joseph-haydn/deutschland-uber-alles

Edited December 1, 2023 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[sherpa]

18 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

Can you elaborate on “…very undesirable price paid”?  Are you thinking exhausted, overworked people make mistakes? 

 

Sure.

A military deployment is supposed to last until a certain time.

If extended, it disrupts the personal and family plans of those involved.

This group is typically mid level enlisted who are still highly employable in the economy, and mid level officers who are always recruited by US industry at greater salary.

Babies are born with a missing parent. People make serious, family plans based on presumed deployments, and count on those plans.

 

A month is not a big deal.

 

Three months is, and retention rates among those two critical groups suffer immensely, as history has proven.

 

The Navy needs to get the Ford group home, or do something they have never done, which is to embark on a rapid replacement of those folks while still underway, which would not work that well re operational capability.

 

It is a big issue.

[Tiberius]

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

 

 

Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7.

[Tiberius]

Then, in July, just three months before the attacks, a veteran analyst with Unit 8200, Israel’s signals intelligence agency, warned that Hamas had conducted an intense, daylong training exercise that appeared similar to what was outlined in the blueprint.

But a colonel in the Gaza division brushed off her concerns, according to encrypted emails viewed by The Times.

“I utterly refute that the scenario is imaginary,” the analyst wrote in the email exchanges. The Hamas training exercise, she said, fully matched “the content of Jericho Wall.”

“It is a plan designed to start a war,” she added. “It’s not just a raid on a village.”

Officials privately concede that, had the military taken these warnings seriously and redirected significant reinforcements to the south, where Hamas attacked, Israel could have blunted the attacks or possibly even prevented them.

[Justice]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Then, in July, just three months before the attacks, a veteran analyst with Unit 8200, Israel’s signals intelligence agency, warned that Hamas had conducted an intense, daylong training exercise that appeared similar to what was outlined in the blueprint.

But a colonel in the Gaza division brushed off her concerns, according to encrypted emails viewed by The Times.

“I utterly refute that the scenario is imaginary,” the analyst wrote in the email exchanges. The Hamas training exercise, she said, fully matched “the content of Jericho Wall.”

“It is a plan designed to start a war,” she added. “It’s not just a raid on a village.”

Officials privately concede that, had the military taken these warnings seriously and redirected significant reinforcements to the south, where Hamas attacked, Israel could have blunted the attacks or possibly even prevented them.

They knew and allowed it. They might have even helped facilitate it. 
 

‘Sometimes you have to get bombed into going to war’-Netanyahu 

[Andy1]

 

6 hours ago, Justice said:

They knew and allowed it. They might have even helped facilitate it. 
 

‘Sometimes you have to get bombed into going to war’-Netanyahu 

Looks like a complete failure of the leadership of their national defense. Certainly Israel’s obsession/policy of providing protection to settlers in West Bank consumed their military attention along with Hamas fooling them into thinking that Hamas was more interested in economic development. 

[Tiberius]

6 hours ago, Justice said:

They knew and allowed it. They might have even helped facilitate it. 
 

‘Sometimes you have to get bombed into going to war’-Netanyahu 

How do you not guard a border that shelters you from an organization who's whole purpose is your destruction? Suspicious, to say the least 

[Tommy Callahan]

28 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

How do you not guard a border that shelters you from an organization who's whole purpose is your destruction? Suspicious, to say the least 

 OBL openly talked of attacking the west. Thats where Alex jones (bill cooper) got famous.  Late night radio shows were warning of OBL and his talk of attacking the USA.  Our FBI was monitoring at least one of the cells when they were taking flying lessons.

 

Eff, how many times do we read that a mass shooter (terror) was on the radar of the officials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

 

 

Eff, how many times do we read that a mass shooter (terror) was on the radar of the officials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Radar? They were right next door with a f'n mission statement to destroy Israel. The Israelis didn't have a response team ready with mobile troops, attack helicopters and attack drones ready? 

 

Why? 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Radar? They were right next door with a f'n mission statement to destroy Israel. The Israelis didn't have a response team ready with mobile troops, attack helicopters and attack drones ready? 

 

Why? 

IRAN has at least 6 groups including HAMAS on all sides of Israel with the same intent. Same for IRAN itself.  

 

I imagine they get a crap load of threats, daily.

 

 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

IRAN has at least 6 groups including HAMAS on all sides of Israel with the same intent. Same for IRAN itself.  

 

I imagine they get a crap load of threats, daily.

 

 

So they just ignore that border? It's not like it would of taken a huge force to watch it. 

 

Pretty sure the settlers had to call the police when the attack began. The police! 

 

The door was left, if not wide open, secured with a weak lock. 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

So they just ignore that border? It's not like it would of taken a huge force to watch it. 

 

Pretty sure the settlers had to call the police when the attack began. The police! 

 

The door was left, if not wide open, secured with a weak lock. 

if the door was left wide open. they wouldn't have needed little airplanes to go over it.

 

Its interesting but predictable how the narrative has moved to victim blaming and parroting HAMAS narratives.

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Tommy Callahan said:

if the door was left wide open. they wouldn't have needed little airplanes to go over it.

 

Its interesting but predictable how the narrative has moved to victim blaming and parroting HAMAS narratives.

 

 

 

 

Yup, little, low tech flying machines, Where was the Israeli quick response to this obvious threat? 

 

Parroting a Hamas narrative? No. Stupid, Analyzing failure is what improves defense.  

[Tommy Callahan]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Yup, little, low tech flying machines, Where was the Israeli quick response to this obvious threat? 

 

Parroting a Hamas narrative? No. Stupid, Analyzing failure is what improves defense.  

Little machines that are so small they were not seen on radar, but looked like birds?

 

Im just stating the fact this is the HAMAS narrative you're promoting.

 

and victim blaming.

 

Got a feeling no intel is being ignored now.

 

It is what it is.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Tommy Callahan

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Tommy Callahan said:

Little machines that are so small they were not seen on radar, but looked like birds?

 

Im just stating the fact this is the HAMAS narrative you're promoting.

 

and victim blaming.

 

Got a feeling no intel is being ignored now.

 

It is what it is.

 

 

And once they got there? Why was there no force in place to fight? 

 

It's unbelievable. 

 

The people who were attacked were the victims, not the clowns that failed to protect them. 

 

Gonna be some fall out from this. Public hearings, documents uncovered. What a mess! 

 

 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

TEL AVIV, Israel — Israeli officials obtained Hamas’ battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

The approximately 40-page document, which Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

 

NYT doesn't have the integrity to source itself.

 

 

And not new for them to be pushing a grand conspiracy theory.

 

According to the Times, the “Jericho Wall” document was circulated widely among Israeli military and intelligence leaders, but it was unclear whether Netanyahu or other top political leaders saw the document

 

This is all based on NYT article.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Tommy Callahan

[Tiberius]

This is even crazier, Hamas posted on line their preparation for the attack 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67480680

 

Prior to 2018, Hamas had formally coordinated with Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Gaza's second largest armed faction and - like Hamas - a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK and other countries.

Hamas had also fought alongside other groups in previous conflicts, but the 2020 drill was billed in propaganda as evidence a wider array of groups were being unified.

Hamas's leader said the first drill reflected the "permanent readiness" of the armed factions.

The 2020 exercise was the first of four joint drills held over three years, each of which was documented in polished videos posted on public social media channels.

 

 

Telling the world

The second Strong Pillar drill was held almost exactly one year later.

Ayman Nofal, a commander in the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades - the official name for Hamas's armed wing - said the aim of the exercise on 26 December 2021 was to "affirm the unity of the resistance factions".

He said the drills would "tell the enemy that the walls and engineering measures on the borders of Gaza will not protect them".

Another Hamas statement said the "joint military manoeuvres" were designed to "simulate the liberation of settlements near Gaza" - which is how the group refers to Israeli communities.

[Tommy Callahan]

12 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

This is even crazier, Hamas posted on line their preparation for the attack 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67480680

 

Prior to 2018, Hamas had formally coordinated with Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Gaza's second largest armed faction and - like Hamas - a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK and other countries.

Hamas had also fought alongside other groups in previous conflicts, but the 2020 drill was billed in propaganda as evidence a wider array of groups were being unified.

Hamas's leader said the first drill reflected the "permanent readiness" of the armed factions.

The 2020 exercise was the first of four joint drills held over three years, each of which was documented in polished videos posted on public social media channels.

 

 

Telling the world

The second Strong Pillar drill was held almost exactly one year later.

Ayman Nofal, a commander in the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades - the official name for Hamas's armed wing - said the aim of the exercise on 26 December 2021 was to "affirm the unity of the resistance factions".

He said the drills would "tell the enemy that the walls and engineering measures on the borders of Gaza will not protect them".

Another Hamas statement said the "joint military manoeuvres" were designed to "simulate the liberation of settlements near Gaza" - which is how the group refers to Israeli communities.

Time to put lasers on that wall.  

[Tiberius]

Just now, Tommy Callahan said:

Time to put lasers on that wall.  

Why? Hamas will be gone soon, remember! 

 

I mean they post videos of them training to attack and Israel does nothing? 

 

Wow. 

 

I wonder is a treason trial won't follow all this