PFF says we have the 8th WORST pass rush?

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

To be honest I don't agree with PFF's take on our pass rush. It doesnt match with what i've seen on the field.

However, I think we find out if they're correct this week. Tre is obviously out and Benford is practicing with a red jersey, so he may be out. If the pass rush is really a benefit of great coverage then we may realize it on Sunday morning.

 

No, things aren't determined on one week.  

 

And no, if you're down to the 3rd and 4th string corners, your passing defense overall takes a hit.  Just like any team who is down to the 3rd and 4th positional players in any area.

[CNYfan]

PFF has a substantial adjustment in scoring based in the market size of the team for which a graded player is employed.  Skewed for larger markets

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

if you're down to the 3rd and 4th string corners, your passing defense overall takes a hit.  

Either your pass rush can get home independent of pass coverage or it can't. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Ed Oliver is literally 3rd in the league in pressures from the DT position but he’s their 43rd rated DT. 
I’m at a loss for words but it is what it is. 

Maybe he's a poor run defender ?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Either your pass rush can get home independent of pass coverage or it can't. 

 

This is true to an extent because you also have to take in context.

 

You don't know what changes an offense will make when facing 2 starting corners vs 2 back up corners.  What do offenses typically do against back up corners?  They attack them.  Well now against 2 back up corners, you have more open.  Back up corners typically are separated on more so QB's see windows quicker.

 

If the QB can get the ball out in under 2.5 seconds consistently, then the only pressure you're getting their are missed assignments and whiffs.

 

I expect teams to get the ball our quickly against us and attack the corners....especially Elam.  

 

[Chaos]

Inside the Numbers.  Bills



Top Ranked 49ers

 

Note the big difference in win Percentage.

PFF considers every down as equal. It is not a situational statistic.   Top ranked team wins a lot more of the battles according to their review of the games. 

I can't personally confirm or deny because I don't am not going to review the games at that level of detail.   But they accurately count the sacks and pressures, so it is not like their analysis does not understand sacks and pressures. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

29 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

PFF has a substantial adjustment in scoring based in the market size of the team for which a graded player is employed.  Skewed for larger markets

 

Can you share a link?  Really interesting.  

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Inside the Numbers.  Bills



Top Ranked 49ers

 

Note the big difference in win Percentage.

PFF considers every down as equal. It is not a situational statistic.   Top ranked team wins a lot more of the battles according to their review of the games. 

I can't personally confirm or deny because I don't am not going to review the games at that level of detail.   But they accurately count the sacks and pressures, so it is not like their analysis does not understand sacks and pressures. 

 

 

Am I reading Ed Oliver as a mediocre pass rusher correctly at 58 rating?

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Inside the Numbers.  Bills



Top Ranked 49ers

 

Note the big difference in win Percentage.

PFF considers every down as equal. It is not a situational statistic.   Top ranked team wins a lot more of the battles according to their review of the games. 

I can't personally confirm or deny because I don't am not going to review the games at that level of detail.   But they accurately count the sacks and pressures, so it is not like their analysis does not understand sacks and pressures. 

 

It's a flawed stat, but PFF grades pass rushers on their "win" on the initial rush at the snap.  It's like an extension of training camp discussions where we talk about DL X "winning their rep" against OL Y or vice versa. All those sacks against Washington would not count as pass rush wins because they were due to Sam Howell holding the ball too long. Why did he do that? Because the BIlls DBs took away his first read. In the end, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that the defense made a play. But just like with PFF OL ratings, they are trying to quantify something that is not really quantifiable but because as humans we love numbers and rankings we eat it up. 

[GETTOTHE50]

PFF are flat earthers.

[billsfan89]

PFF says a lot of things…

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, sunshynman said:

YES! We can hate PFF again!

Collinsworth and inconsistent formulas. What's not to hate.

[MJS]

Maybe it is a typo and they meant in the games he missed last year?

 

There is no way the Bills have "graded" poorly in pass rush when they are dominating every single conceivable metric.

[sunshynman]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Collinsworth and inconsistent formulas. What's not to hate.

Collinsworth is like fingernails on a chalk board. I don't know how he can talk so much with Maholmes jock in his mouth!

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Either your pass rush can get home independent of pass coverage or it can't. 

That's not true... It's a symbiotic relationship between coverage and pass rush

 

Your pass rush could get home fast allowing your corners to not cover for a long time.. masking bad corners

 

A great pass rush could get neutralized by Max protection.. and if you don't have the defensive backs to cover you will lose downfield

 

And a great secondary can also make quarterbacks hold the ball longer.. allowing less of pass rushers to get home ..

 

There are a lot of ways it can happen

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Maybe he's a poor run defender ?

I guess that’s it cause when I watch them he looks like a completely different player this year 

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

Just because you do not like or agree with the grades do not mean that they are trash. 

Every single NFL team as well as 80+ college teams pay PFF for their data. And it's not because these teams like to waste money.

Like I said, good or bad, they're grades are trash. It's not about me liking it or not. I couldn't care less.

 

PFF gets plenty of raw data, which is great. However, they are not football analysts. They are not qualified "graders."

 

Teams pay for the raw data. They are not paying PFF to grade and analyse their players. If they are, they're failing.

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

To be honest I don't agree with PFF's take on our pass rush. It doesnt match with what i've seen on the field.

However, I think we find out if they're correct this week. Tre is obviously out and Benford is practicing with a red jersey, so he may be out. If the pass rush is really a benefit of great coverage then we may realize it on Sunday morning.

groot is also out though. 

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, julian said:

Are these calculations all over the map intentionally ? To cause conversation ? I’m not sure why some of these results are so absurdly contradictory to what you’re actually watching.

 

 Are they just determined to be smarter than the old guard prior to analytics. Strange.

 

Yes, but posters can't help themselves so they rush to post it. PFF has literally said they do stuff to rile up fanbases for traffic. 

[julian]

1 minute ago, Malazan said:

 

Yes, but posters can't help themselves so they rush to post it. PFF has literally said they do stuff to rile up fanbases for traffic. 

Yeah it’s so obvious something isn’t right, they’re looking like the TMZ of analytics 

[CNYfan]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Can you share a link?  Really interesting.  

 

Am I reading Ed Oliver as a mediocre pass rusher correctly at 58 rating?

I made it up, but typical follow the money.  NFL Radio is 40%  Cowboys and Cowboys have been meh, forever.  Good D, but meh.

It is all about the money and in review PFF over the years, I don't trust them and it is usually about the fans dollars