It was always play action.

[FireChans]

Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns.

 

Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. 

 

Need Dorsey to keep that going.

 

Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal.

[GoBills808]

Play action improves protection

 

Whenever Allen has reasonable (doesn't even have to be good) pass protection he is the best QB in the league

[Motorin']

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns.

 

Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. 

 

Need Dorsey to keep that going.

 

Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal.

 

There's a world of difference when the Bills utilize play action from under center when they have a viable run game that the defense has to worry about, versus never lining up under center and half assing play action out of shotgun to a running back the defense doesn't respect. 

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns.

 

Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. 

 

Need Dorsey to keep that going.

 

Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal.

 

Rex Ryan said as much that whether you can run the ball or not makes no difference in terms of the success of play action because it causes a split second hesitation for the players to locate the ball and then they have to make a decision on what to do.  That hesitation is going to happen no matter what and that is enough time for the offense to create separation or give Allen a little extra time to attack deep.

[Warcodered]

Can playaction be effective without a running game, sure, would it be more effective with a good running game, obviously.

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Rex Ryan said as much that whether you can run the ball or not makes no difference in terms of the success of play action because it causes a split second hesitation for the players to locate the ball and then they have to make a decision on what to do.  That hesitation is going to happen no matter what and that is enough time for the offense to create separation or give Allen a little extra time to attack deep.

Yeah I hate to give credit to the old Blowhard but I heard him and he is right.

 

Josh under center with lay action is hard to beat,

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

There's a world of difference when the Bills utilize play action from under center when they have a viable run game that the defense has to worry about, versus never lining up under center and half assing play action out of shotgun to a running back the defense doesn't respect. 

this is the relationship between EPA/rush and EPA/play action dropback

 

as you can see very little correlation

 

the quality of your run game does not impact the effectiveness of play action passes

[boyst]

josh also needs to be under center.

[YattaOkasan]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Can playaction be effective without a running game, sure, would it be more effective with a good running game, obviously.

What seems to matter (and would like to see some data) is if the formation is under center or not.  My thought is under center the ball gets hidden better and thus the LBs come a bit further forward.  I also suspect a down and distance aspect to this.  3 & 10 is not gonna bring the LBs up as much as 3 & 3.  

[co_springs_billsfan]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

this is the relationship between EPA/rush and EPA/play action dropback

 

as you can see very little correlation

 

the quality of your run game does not impact the effectiveness of play action passes

Never been a fan of Jackson Pollock

[SoonerBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns.

 

Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. 

 

Need Dorsey to keep that going.

 

Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal.

I posted last week he needed to be under center a lot more and got blasted for it.

[LABILLBACKER]

I've always hated the shotgun draw. It completely neutralizes the speed of Cook.  Now with 3 different rbs, we have the luxury to freeze lbs and take a few shots downfield.  We as fans have been screaming for it (along with more motion) and its finally happening.  Hats off to Dorsey & McD recognizing this missing piece.

[Motorin']

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

this is the relationship between EPA/rush and EPA/play action dropback

 

as you can see very little correlation

 

the quality of your run game does not impact the effectiveness of play action passes

 

Oh ok then. So if the Bills line up in shotgun 100% of the time, never run the ball once, the play cation would be just as effective as lining up under center 50% of the time and having a pass / run ratio of 50 / 50?

 

Your scatter plot reminds me of the study Purdue pharma used to insist that less than 1% of patients will become addicted to oxycontin. 

9 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

What seems to matter (and would like to see some data) is if the formation is under center or not.  My thought is under center the ball gets hidden better and thus the LBs come a bit further forward.  I also suspect a down and distance aspect to this.  3 & 10 is not gonna bring the LBs up as much as 3 & 3.  

 

Who needs context when you have maths?

Edited October 2, 2023 by Motorin'

[That's No Moon]

26 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns.

 

Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. 

 

Need Dorsey to keep that going.

 

Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal.

It's not about the run, it's the threat of the run. Need to keep showing it in early downs, even if it's not working that well.

[McBean]

26 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Prior to yesterday's beat down, Allen was 18 of 23 on play-action passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns.

 

Yesterday in play-action, Josh was 9/11 for 206 yards and 3 TD's. 

 

Need Dorsey to keep that going.

 

Some folks will say that the run game helps, which is understandable, but most of the data suggests that PA effectiveness is not predicated on run game success. So regardless, this is when Josh is at his most lethal.

Can you imagine Josh with Kyle Shannahan 

[RobbRiddick]

I get a tingly feeling when I see Josh under center. It could be sexual but I think it's that part of me that loves the old school 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Oh ok then. So if the Bills line up in shotgun 100% of the time, never run the ball once, the play cation would be just as effective as lining up under center 50% of the time and having a pass / run ratio of 50 / 50?

correct

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Oh ok then. So if the Bills line up in shotgun 100% of the time, never run the ball once, the play cation would be just as effective as lining up under center 50% of the time and having a pass / run ratio of 50 / 50?

 

Your scatter plot reminds me of the study Purdue pharma used to insist that less than 1% of patients will become addicted to oxycontin. 

Yep and it is. 

 

Also you can line up under center 100% of the time and NEVER run and play action will still just be as effective. 

 

As proven OVER and OVER and OVER again.  You do not NEED an effective Running Game for Play action to work.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by MAJBobby

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

correct

 

Tell me you don't know how to interpret statistics without telling me you don't know how to interpret statistics. 

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep and it is. 

 

Also you can line up under center 100% of the time and NEVER run and play action will still just be as effective. 

 

And there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow too! 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Motorin'

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Tell me you don't know how to interpret statistics without telling me you don't know how to interpret statistics. 

 

And there's a pot at the end of the rainbow. 

Sorry you do not. The reality is all the analytics SHOW THAT. 

 

Why?

 

LBers play of KEYS. 

 

G-C-G Triangle (run action they play Run)

Through QB to RB

 

A RUN ACTION the LBers will play RUN.  That is the reality.