Matt_In_NH Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 Hopefully they dont get their act together too soon before we play them 1 1 1 Quote
SoTier Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: Fun fact: The Titans scored 3 touchdowns in the second quarter against the Bengals. The Bengals have scored 3 touchdowns the entire season. IIRC, one of the commentators said yesterday that the Bengals haven't scored a TD in the first half. ☹️ Quote
Billsfan1972 Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: I remember an article in The Athletic and the debate who's #2 (after Mahomes) in 2022 prior to the season I think with Burrow, Herbert & Allen and being so frustrated that Burrow & Herbert were elevated to that status. Then the Jackson fans were indignant too. With Allen people want to find fault with him. Burrow is faultless in the medias' eyes. Found it..... And yes was upset then and still am. Things can however change. Joe Burrow, Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? Which rising young QB would NFL coaches and execs take now? Mike Sando Jan 27, 2022 Three young quarterbacks soared toward superstar status as the 2021 NFL regular season concluded. Joe Burrow and Josh Allen continued their ascent with memorable playoff performances. The third, Justin Herbert, ranked behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady in Total QBR during a second consecutive impressive season to start his career. Burrow, Allen and Herbert are three of the most exciting young players in the game. Each has shown enough to enhance his profile since entering the league, but none has played well enough for long enough to cement himself with Rodgers, Brady and Patrick Mahomes as the elite of the elite. Allen has grown into the role, emerging as a consistently dynamic force over the past two seasons. Burrow and Herbert have played only two seasons — Burrow less than that, thanks to a knee injury suffered as a rookie. Which one of these three rising quarterbacks would you take if allowed to choose just one? I posed that question to two NFL offensive coaches, a former general manager, one long-time evaluator, one younger evaluator, former NFL executive of the year Randy Mueller and The Athletic NFL Draft analyst Dane Brugler. The seven voters ranked the quarterbacks 1-2-3. The results are below, along with explanations. There was almost a tie at the top. Burrow, Allen, Herbert? Ballots, please VOTER BURROW ALLEN HERBERT Former GM 1 2 3 Evaluator 1 1 2 3 Coach 1 1 3 2 Coach 2 1 3 2 Evaluator 2 2 1 3 Brugler 2 1 3 Mueller 3 1 2 Avg Vote 1.6 1.9 2.6 1. Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals Average vote: 1.6 Burrow was the surest bet of the three coming out of college. Any team would have selected him first. Allen and Herbert required more projection, for different reasons, which is why they were not No. 1 overall choices. “You can make a case for all three, easily,” one of the offensive coaches said. “My gut is it’s Burrow because he’s the best decision maker and he’s the toughest mentally, the most resilient, the best leader.” The Bengals went from zero playoff victories for 31 years to the AFC Championship Game in Burrow’s first full season as a starter. “I would take any one of the three, obviously — they are all impressive,” the other offensive coach said. “I just think Burrow has that little extra something. Maybe it’s because he has (Ja’Marr) Chase, but he was that was at LSU. He’s so accurate. He sees things so well.” Burrow was first on both coaches’ ballots. He was first or second on six ballots overall. Mueller’s ballot was the exception. He had Allen first, Herbert second. “Coaches want the processor and the most coachable of them all,” Mueller said. “Burrow is the highest level of instincts. To me, that’s why all these offensive coaches were in love with Mac Jones. I just want the best guy, the most talent that we can manage going forward.” Burrow edged Allen for the top spot because the two offensive coaches dropped Allen to third on their ballots, the only No. 3 votes Allen received. If those coaches had ranked Allen second and Herbert third, then Burrow and Allen would have tied at the top. “What Burrow is doing with that offensive line is impressive,” said the long-time evaluator, who had Burrow atop his ballot. “His eyes are so quick. He sees it like Brady, Peyton, Brees at their primes. It is almost like Joe Montana, seeing it that quick and delivering it accurately.” What about all the sacks, including nine against Tennessee in the divisional round? Mueller thought Burrow would always take sacks at a higher rate for a variety of reasons, including the Bengals’ roster construction. “You can get on him if you like for getting sacked nine times,” the former GM said, “but he is kind of like the general who said, ‘You know what, we are going to have to take some casualties here, men — I’m going to take some sacks, but I’m not going to turn it over and I’m going to get you 20 points on the board and they are going to beat the heck out of me.’ ” 2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills Average vote: 1.9 Mueller, Brugler and the younger evaluator all had Allen atop their ballots. “I think he’s John Elway,” Mueller said. “He does not have the body of work Elway has, but the skill set is so similar that it’s crazy.” Allen is ahead of Elway in at least one respect. He has 31 rushing touchdowns in 61 career games. Elway had 33 rushing touchdowns in 234 games. “To be to be a top-tier guy in today’s NFL, you need a superhero trait, and I think Josh Allen has a few of them with the way he can impact the game in so many different ways,” Brugler said. “It doesn’t come without concerns. He takes so many hits. He is more expensive than the other two guys. But if I’m just talking about the player and the guy that I feel most confident is going to lead my team to a chance at a Super Bowl championship, I’m going with Josh Allen.” One of the evaluators loved the way the Bills developed Allen: addressing his accuracy issues early while using his running ability as a complement rather than turning Allen into primarily a runner early in his career. “They did not say, ‘We have to be run-first to fix your arm second,’ ” this evaluator said. “They have done the reverse. They deconstructed his motion and improved that, so they can lean into the running when they have to, but he has done enough from a pocket standpoint that he can stand there.” Mueller said he thought accuracy concerns regarding Allen were always overblown. “Without being anchored to this position, I’ve never been a believer that this guy had inaccuracy problems that couldn’t be fixed,” Mueller said. “I could explain those things when he came out, so I’ve always been a little bit aligned behind that theory of, he just needs training, comfort level, processing and learning, and he’ll be fine.” Some expressed concern about what might happen in Buffalo if offensive coordinator Brian Daboll leaves and the system changes. “You’re going to have more ups and downs with Allen once his contract affects the talent around him,” one of the offensive coaches said. 3. Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers Average vote: 2.6 Recency bias could favor Burrow and Allen following their strong performances in the playoffs. Not for Mueller, however. He had Herbert second, ahead of Burrow. “The hard one for me is Herbert vs. Burrow,” Mueller said. “I think Herbert’s offense holds him back. If you put Herbert in Buffalo, he is not wired the same as Josh Allen, but he could do a lot of similar things. Those are the athletes and that is where I yielded at the end of the day.” Both offensive coaches had Herbert over Allen, but behind Burrow. One noted that Herbert succeeded the minute he walked into the league, on a team that had question marks on the offensive line and a defense that fell off. “I think you look at what Burrow does above the neck, I’d probably just go Burrow second and Herbert third, even though Herbert may be the best thrower of them all,” an evaluator who ranked Allen first said. As retirement approached for Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers and others, it wasn’t always certain if the league would develop quarterbacks talented enough to replace them. Burrow, Allen and Herbert are easing those concerns. “What I love about all three is just how they’ve overcome so much,” Brugler said. “Josh Allen did not grow up going to quarterback camps where playing the position a specific way is ingrained at a young age. He learned organically and had just a very different upbringing and journey. He’s still learning, growing and evolving and becoming better. Joe Burrow went to Ohio State, so he was a big recruit, but he had to go somewhere else and do it. Justin Herbert, small hometown guy in Eugene, a quiet guy by nature, coming out of his shell. “There’s not a wrong answer here. You can really make the case for any of these guys.” Quote
teef Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Found it..... And yes was upset then and still am. Things can however change. Joe Burrow, Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? Which rising young QB would NFL coaches and execs take now? Mike Sando Jan 27, 2022 Three young quarterbacks soared toward superstar status as the 2021 NFL regular season concluded. Joe Burrow and Josh Allen continued their ascent with memorable playoff performances. The third, Justin Herbert, ranked behind only Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady in Total QBR during a second consecutive impressive season to start his career. Burrow, Allen and Herbert are three of the most exciting young players in the game. Each has shown enough to enhance his profile since entering the league, but none has played well enough for long enough to cement himself with Rodgers, Brady and Patrick Mahomes as the elite of the elite. Allen has grown into the role, emerging as a consistently dynamic force over the past two seasons. Burrow and Herbert have played only two seasons — Burrow less than that, thanks to a knee injury suffered as a rookie. Which one of these three rising quarterbacks would you take if allowed to choose just one? I posed that question to two NFL offensive coaches, a former general manager, one long-time evaluator, one younger evaluator, former NFL executive of the year Randy Mueller and The Athletic NFL Draft analyst Dane Brugler. The seven voters ranked the quarterbacks 1-2-3. The results are below, along with explanations. There was almost a tie at the top. Burrow, Allen, Herbert? Ballots, please VOTER BURROW ALLEN HERBERT Former GM 1 2 3 Evaluator 1 1 2 3 Coach 1 1 3 2 Coach 2 1 3 2 Evaluator 2 2 1 3 Brugler 2 1 3 Mueller 3 1 2 Avg Vote 1.6 1.9 2.6 1. Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals Average vote: 1.6 Burrow was the surest bet of the three coming out of college. Any team would have selected him first. Allen and Herbert required more projection, for different reasons, which is why they were not No. 1 overall choices. “You can make a case for all three, easily,” one of the offensive coaches said. “My gut is it’s Burrow because he’s the best decision maker and he’s the toughest mentally, the most resilient, the best leader.” The Bengals went from zero playoff victories for 31 years to the AFC Championship Game in Burrow’s first full season as a starter. “I would take any one of the three, obviously — they are all impressive,” the other offensive coach said. “I just think Burrow has that little extra something. Maybe it’s because he has (Ja’Marr) Chase, but he was that was at LSU. He’s so accurate. He sees things so well.” Burrow was first on both coaches’ ballots. He was first or second on six ballots overall. Mueller’s ballot was the exception. He had Allen first, Herbert second. “Coaches want the processor and the most coachable of them all,” Mueller said. “Burrow is the highest level of instincts. To me, that’s why all these offensive coaches were in love with Mac Jones. I just want the best guy, the most talent that we can manage going forward.” Burrow edged Allen for the top spot because the two offensive coaches dropped Allen to third on their ballots, the only No. 3 votes Allen received. If those coaches had ranked Allen second and Herbert third, then Burrow and Allen would have tied at the top. “What Burrow is doing with that offensive line is impressive,” said the long-time evaluator, who had Burrow atop his ballot. “His eyes are so quick. He sees it like Brady, Peyton, Brees at their primes. It is almost like Joe Montana, seeing it that quick and delivering it accurately.” What about all the sacks, including nine against Tennessee in the divisional round? Mueller thought Burrow would always take sacks at a higher rate for a variety of reasons, including the Bengals’ roster construction. “You can get on him if you like for getting sacked nine times,” the former GM said, “but he is kind of like the general who said, ‘You know what, we are going to have to take some casualties here, men — I’m going to take some sacks, but I’m not going to turn it over and I’m going to get you 20 points on the board and they are going to beat the heck out of me.’ ” 2. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills Average vote: 1.9 Mueller, Brugler and the younger evaluator all had Allen atop their ballots. “I think he’s John Elway,” Mueller said. “He does not have the body of work Elway has, but the skill set is so similar that it’s crazy.” Allen is ahead of Elway in at least one respect. He has 31 rushing touchdowns in 61 career games. Elway had 33 rushing touchdowns in 234 games. “To be to be a top-tier guy in today’s NFL, you need a superhero trait, and I think Josh Allen has a few of them with the way he can impact the game in so many different ways,” Brugler said. “It doesn’t come without concerns. He takes so many hits. He is more expensive than the other two guys. But if I’m just talking about the player and the guy that I feel most confident is going to lead my team to a chance at a Super Bowl championship, I’m going with Josh Allen.” One of the evaluators loved the way the Bills developed Allen: addressing his accuracy issues early while using his running ability as a complement rather than turning Allen into primarily a runner early in his career. “They did not say, ‘We have to be run-first to fix your arm second,’ ” this evaluator said. “They have done the reverse. They deconstructed his motion and improved that, so they can lean into the running when they have to, but he has done enough from a pocket standpoint that he can stand there.” Mueller said he thought accuracy concerns regarding Allen were always overblown. “Without being anchored to this position, I’ve never been a believer that this guy had inaccuracy problems that couldn’t be fixed,” Mueller said. “I could explain those things when he came out, so I’ve always been a little bit aligned behind that theory of, he just needs training, comfort level, processing and learning, and he’ll be fine.” Some expressed concern about what might happen in Buffalo if offensive coordinator Brian Daboll leaves and the system changes. “You’re going to have more ups and downs with Allen once his contract affects the talent around him,” one of the offensive coaches said. 3. Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers Average vote: 2.6 Recency bias could favor Burrow and Allen following their strong performances in the playoffs. Not for Mueller, however. He had Herbert second, ahead of Burrow. “The hard one for me is Herbert vs. Burrow,” Mueller said. “I think Herbert’s offense holds him back. If you put Herbert in Buffalo, he is not wired the same as Josh Allen, but he could do a lot of similar things. Those are the athletes and that is where I yielded at the end of the day.” Both offensive coaches had Herbert over Allen, but behind Burrow. One noted that Herbert succeeded the minute he walked into the league, on a team that had question marks on the offensive line and a defense that fell off. “I think you look at what Burrow does above the neck, I’d probably just go Burrow second and Herbert third, even though Herbert may be the best thrower of them all,” an evaluator who ranked Allen first said. As retirement approached for Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers and others, it wasn’t always certain if the league would develop quarterbacks talented enough to replace them. Burrow, Allen and Herbert are easing those concerns. “What I love about all three is just how they’ve overcome so much,” Brugler said. “Josh Allen did not grow up going to quarterback camps where playing the position a specific way is ingrained at a young age. He learned organically and had just a very different upbringing and journey. He’s still learning, growing and evolving and becoming better. Joe Burrow went to Ohio State, so he was a big recruit, but he had to go somewhere else and do it. Justin Herbert, small hometown guy in Eugene, a quiet guy by nature, coming out of his shell. “There’s not a wrong answer here. You can really make the case for any of these guys.” You don’t have to quote yourself. I’ll pay attention to you. Quote
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 16 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said: other than Mixon, and Hurst last year they were pretty classy toward us it seemed to me Posters are disagreeing with you but I agree with you. They were very supportive of the entire Damar situation. Quote
nucci Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 16 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said: I bet this is barely a topic all week. If Diggs did this after a loss, it would be everywhere! it's because you're a Bills fan and follow them that's it's everywhere because you read and listen to everything. I'm sure this is big in Cincinnati Quote
LabattBlue Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 Last year Chase averaged around 11 targets a game. So far this year…10. Just your typical diva WR spouting off. Quote
Fleezoid Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 In an upcoming game, I would love to see a DB break up a pass to Chase, turn to him and say, 'Man, I'm sorry, I forgot you were open'. 2 Quote
Billsfan1972 Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 31 minutes ago, teef said: You don’t have to quote yourself. I’ll pay attention to you. Just helping people who don't have a subscription to The Athletic. However duly noted. 2 Quote
RobbRiddick Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 I think he's finally grown tired of Burrow blowing smoke Quote
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 16 hours ago, Process said: I'm on record saying Burrow is the most overrated player in the league. Is he as bad as he is playing right now? No of course not. Is he a good QB? Yes he's good Is he's elite? No, and he never has been. Nah, you’re thinking of Justin Herbert. At least Burrow has won some big games. Quote
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 24 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Posters are disagreeing with you but I agree with you. They were very supportive of the entire Damar situation. I mean what else are they supposed to do? A man literally died on the field. I’d expect a respectful reaction from any normal decent human being. Quote
BigAl2526 Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 I just hope when Buffalo plays Cincinnati a little later in the season they are this year's version of the team so far and not last year's playoff version. Buffalo is clearly a better team now than the team that played Cincinnati in the playoffs though. 1 Quote
Freddie's Dead Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 No no no no, there's two "r"s in Ja'Marr, boys 1 1 Quote
Warcodered Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 5 hours ago, RobbRiddick said: I think he's finally grown tired of Burrow blowing smoke Honestly considering what he said about not wanting Joe to play hurt against the Rams, he's probably pissed about what they're doing. Quote
PatsFanNH Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 21 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Uh oh…trouble in paradise? Lol. I caught heat here for saying Burrow was overrated and that Bengals won’t win their division this past offseason. Let see if the media treats Chase the same way they treated Diggs this off-season who actually seems pissed from actual games being played. Let’s see if the media covers Burrows struggles over the whole season so far as harshly as they did Allen over just 1 game. I disagree about Burrows, he is a great QB who is trying to play hurt and it shows. As for Chase he is a typical diva WR who is crying because he is losing for the first time in at least 7 years for him. Quote
Mark92 Posted October 2, 2023 Posted October 2, 2023 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Suck it Bengals. " Gonna need to refund those tickets. " 🖕 Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted October 2, 2023 Author Posted October 2, 2023 18 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: I disagree about Burrows, he is a great QB who is trying to play hurt and it shows. As for Chase he is a typical diva WR who is crying because he is losing for the first time in at least 7 years for him. Why does Burrow get the injury excuse and Allen didn't last year even though Allens injury was more serious and more impactful in actually throwing the football? Curious, have you watched a Bengals game? Burrow does not look good at all, and it goes beyond anything to do with his calf. 1 Quote
PatsFanNH Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Why does Burrow get the injury excuse and Allen didn't last year even though Allens injury was more serious and more impactful in actually throwing the football? Curious, have you watched a Bengals game? Burrow does not look good at all, and it goes beyond anything to do with his calf. First I never blamed Allen for anything.. the entire Bills team just crapped the bed at the end of the year. That said your legs when throwing are very important and they should sit him and let him heal. I think he proven that when healthy he is a top 3 QB. Quote
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