2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Ravens give up 13 less yards/ game than us, 4 more sacks, and 2 less points/ game.  
 

additionally, they only have 2 more takeaways (26-24).  But the reason they are 12-3 and we are 9-6 is they are a +10 while we are even. So to the people who favor Jackson, that and the losses, are the biggest case against Allen. 

 

The Ravens defense is ranked 2nd by DVOA. Ours is ranked 12th. Their special teams is ranked 4th. Ours is ranked 18th. It is not debatable that the other two phases of the game have heavily favored Lamar over Allen.

 

The only reason the Bills are even in a playoff spot right now is because Allen had clutch game winning drives against the Giants, Chiefs, and Chargers. He also had clutch game winning drives against the Pats, Broncos, and Eagles, but unfortunately...

[CincyBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The most absurd reason for Lamar being MVP and not Allen that I heard this week on TV...  "Lamar would have 45 TD's by now if he called him own number by the goal line like Allen does".   Ok, so now we're going to award the MVP based on reasoning like that for things that never happened?

 

 

That would be true for Hurts who scores a lot of 1 yard tush push TD's but I believe more then half of Allen's rushing TD's were scored from more then 5 yards out.

 

 

[dma0034]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The Jets game and Broncos game are both games Allen single-handedly put us in serious danger of losing, and imo hurt his case far more than they help him.

 

I mean... every QB has bad games. I think the Jets game was his worst but seriously the Broncos? He hits Gabe Davis who can't catch it and it gets picked. The pick before the half was bad but the entire team played sloppy. 

 

This isn't even including drops... which is the excuse everyone makes about Mahomes being average thos year

[HappyDays]

Just now, FireChans said:

He got tripped by the ref for the safety. Talk about “watching the games” lol.

 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You can't run straight backwards for 20 yards from your own 20 and expect things to turn out well. That's the kind of play Allen had to get out of his system after his first couple years. I don't blame the official there at all.

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

The Ravens defense is ranked 2nd by DVOA. Ours is ranked 12th. Their special teams is ranked 4th. Ours is ranked 18th. It is not debatable that the other two phases of the game have heavily favored Lamar over Allen.

 

The only reason the Bills are even in a playoff spot right now is because Allen had clutch game winning drives against the Giants, Chiefs, and Chargers. He also had clutch game winning drives against the Pats, Broncos, and Eagles, but unfortunately...

Yep and those short fields against SF brought to the Ravens by their D certainly helped Jackson's TD totals. 

 

 

[FireChans]

Just now, dma0034 said:

 

I mean... every QB has bad games. I think the Jets game was his worst but seriously the Broncos? He hits Gabe Davis who can't catch it and it gets picked. The pick before the half was bad but the entire team played sloppy. 

 

This isn't even including drops... which is the excuse everyone makes about Mahomes being average thos year

He had 3 turnovers. Sure, some bad luck involved.

 

If your QB has 3 TO’s and you lose, your QB is probably a big reason why you lost.

 

This is a fact everywhere but Bills land.

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You can't run straight backwards for 20 yards from your own 20 and expect things to turn out well. That's the kind of play Allen had to get out of his system after his first couple years. I don't blame the official there at all.

Allen still runs backward and takes horrific sacks trying to throw sideways lol.
 

Probably not the year to talk about Allen’s “improved” decision making tbh.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Ravens defense is ranked 2nd by DVOA. Ours is ranked 12th. Their special teams is ranked 4th. Ours is ranked 18th. It is not debatable that the other two phases of the game have heavily favored Lamar over Allen.

 

The only reason the Bills are even in a playoff spot right now is because Allen had clutch game winning drives against the Giants, Chiefs, and Chargers. He also had clutch game winning drives against the Pats, Broncos, and Eagles, but unfortunately...

So actual numbers don’t matter. Just some random formula made up by nerds? Gotcha. Digging deep . 👍

 

and you’re making my point for Lamar for me (and I don’t even think he should win). If Allen and the offense didn’t suck for halves of games against the Giants, Chiefs, chargers, Pats, and Broncos, they won’t need a “game winning drive.” The defense was the only reason those game were winnable. The Ravens have stomped opponents from the jump and their defense has blown leads in their 3 losses. 
 

I think the Bills are a really good team that are getting hot at the right time. But there were far too many inconsistent moments this year to have the MVP. 

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He got tripped by the ref for the safety. Talk about “watching the games” lol.

So his awareness was so bad he tripped over a ref? 

Just now, mrags said:

So his awareness was so bad he tripped over a ref? 

And people complain about Allen’s ints. Jeesh 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

I mean... every QB has bad games. I think the Jets game was his worst but seriously the Broncos? He hits Gabe Davis who can't catch it and it gets picked. The pick before the half was bad but the entire team played sloppy. 

 

This isn't even including drops... which is the excuse everyone makes about Mahomes being average thos year

Allen and the offense were awful in the game. Our defense was the  only reason that game wasn’t over at halftime (and the Broncos garbage offense). 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You can't run straight backwards for 20 yards from your own 20 and expect things to turn out well. That's the kind of play Allen had to get out of his system after his first couple years. I don't blame the official there at all.

Agree and that was one of the biggest criticisms of Allen his first two seasons in the NFL. All we heard is how terrible it was that Allen kept dropping back in a futile effort to avoid a sack. A lot of folks on 2BD called that out as an example of Allen playing "hero ball" to the detriment of the team.  Jackson does the exact same thing in his 6th year and all people can do is blame the ref.  I wonder if the ref was caught by surprise that Jackson would do something as foolish and reckless as falling back 20 yards into his own end zone?

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Yep and those short fields against SF brought to the Ravens by their D certainly helped Jackson's TD totals. 

 

 

Their defense has 2 more takeaways than us all year. 2. 

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Allen still runs backward and takes horrific sacks trying to throw sideways lol.

 

Allen has the 2nd lowest sack % in the entire NFL out of 33 qualifying QBs.

 

You guys gotta actually look at things before posting. Allen has been elite at avoiding sacks this year, and let's be honest his offensive has been improved but it is not stellar.

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You can't run straight backwards for 20 yards from your own 20 and expect things to turn out well. That's the kind of play Allen had to get out of his system after his first couple years. I don't blame the official there at all.

And they overcame those and smoked the “best” team on the road. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So actual numbers don’t matter. Just some random formula made up by nerds? Gotcha. Digging deep . 👍

 

and you’re making my point for Lamar for me (and I don’t even think he should win). If Allen and the offense didn’t suck for halves of games against the Giants, Chiefs, chargers, Pats, and Broncos, they won’t need a “game winning drive.” The defense was the only reason those game were winnable. The Ravens have stomped opponents from the jump and their defense has blown leads in their 3 losses. 
 

I think the Bills are a really good team that are getting hot at the right time. But there were far too many inconsistent moments this year to have the MVP. 

It’s very funny that Allen’s 2 TD, 3 TO performance plus a game-winning drive (and a subsequent loss) against the Broncos is somehow considered better than Lamar just cruising to a victory with 2 TD’s against the best team in the NFC.

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Allen has the 2nd lowest sack % in the entire NFL out of 33 qualifying QBs.

 

You guys gotta actually look at things before posting. Allen has been elite at avoiding sacks this year, and let's be honest his offensive has been improved but it is not stellar.

I watch the games. You somehow missed the ref tripping a QB while “watching the games” lol.

 

Josh spent a quarter of the season running out of clean pockets like Kenny Pickett this year. Short term memory.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Their defense has 2 more takeaways than us all year. 2. 

But the 49's game was what has propelled Jackson into the lead with respect to MVP.  And for the record you would have to know where the takeaways happened between the two teams to better see which QB benefited the most from the TO. 

 

 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

So his awareness was so bad he tripped over a ref? 

And people complain about Allen’s ints. Jeesh 

Refs don’t play defense.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Allen has the 2nd lowest sack % in the entire NFL out of 33 qualifying QBs.

 

You guys gotta actually look at things before posting. Allen has been elite at avoiding sacks this year, and let's be honest his offensive has been improved but it is not stellar.

Haha, why can’t you give any credit to other guys on the team? Allen is absolutely amazing. But maybe Torrence was a great pick. Dawkins and Brown improved a ton. We finally got cook the ball and he showed why he was a 2nd round pick.

 

these guys help Allen as well. Allen isn’t Jesus (though he is very good). You act like he’s on the Panthers or playing on NE’s offense. 

[FireChans]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

But the 49's game was what has propelled Jackson into the lead with respect to MVP.  And for the record you would have to know where the takeaways happened between the two teams to better see which QB benefited the most from the TO. 

 

 

Lamar jumping was also because Brock (the previous leader) melted down. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

But the 49's game was what has propelled Jackson into the lead with respect to MVP.  And for the record you would have to know where the takeaways happened between the two teams to better see which QB benefited the most from the TO. 

 

 

Jackson has been in the top 3 mvp odds for most of the year. That game made him the favorite. 

[FireChans]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Haha, why can’t you give any credit to other guys on the team? Allen is absolutely amazing. But maybe Torrence was a great pick. Dawkins and Brown improved a ton. We finally got cook the ball and he showed why he was a 2nd round pick.

 

these guys help Allen as well. Allen isn’t Jesus (though he is very good). You act like he’s on the Panthers or playing on NE’s offense. 

these Stans watched the Bills run the ball down the Cowboys throat and Allen barely play, and still think we’d be like 0-17 with Kirk Cousins.