2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[DapperCam]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You could do this for every qb in the league though. Defense also kept us in games when the offense was struggling too (NE, NYJ, Chargers, Denver). 

NE and NYJ both have bottom 3 offenses in the entire league. Denver is middle of the pack/bottom 3rd, and the Chargers with Easton Stick are also bottom 3rd.

 

So I’m not really impressed with the defense’s performances in those games. They either had average performances, or bad performances (NE game especially).

 

[Ya Digg?]

4 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

mvp or lombardi?

 

 

lombardi all day.

 

 

mvp means nothing really.

Has anyone said they would rather have Josh win the MVP as opposed to the Super Bowl?

[billieve420]

1 minute ago, Ya Digg? said:

Has anyone said they would rather have Josh win the MVP as opposed to the Super Bowl?

Yeah at this point just get into the playoffs whatever happens with the MVP is out of the team’s control 

[strive_for_five_guy]

10 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Part of that is due to Allen and this team. Buffalo should be competing for #1 seed instead of scrambling to get into the playoffs. Allen’s turnovers have directly led to some of the losses which has put team in this situation. To me the offense has underperformed this year which will end up hurting his case. I do think he is in the conversation though. My vote would go to CMC who is the MVP for the 49ers in a down year overall with the QBs. If Allen wins out in impressive fashion in these last 2 games he could make it close. I think end of the day Bills need to win the AFC east for Allen to potentially win it. 

Apparently there have been four MVPs since 2000 that did not win their division, the last being Adrian Peterson in 2012.  That path would seemingly be Miami beats Baltimore (which knocks Lamar down), and then Bills would need to have a WC spot still on the line and beat the Dolphins.  In that scenario, the Dolphins would still have the 1 seed on the line, so they’d be playing for something too.  And Josh would really need to be lights out the next two games.

 

But, if the ultimate goal is Super Bowl, we should really be cheering for the Ravens to take down the Dolphins.  I think that locks up MVP for Lamar, but gives us an opening for the #2 seed.

[DapperCam]

17 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Apparently there have been four MVPs since 2000 that did not win their division, the last being Adrian Peterson in 2012.  That path would seemingly be Miami beats Baltimore (which knocks Lamar down), and then Bills would need to have a WC spot still on the line and beat the Dolphins.  In that scenario, the Dolphins would still have the 1 seed on the line, so they’d be playing for something too.  And Josh would really need to be lights out the next two games.

 

But, if the ultimate goal is Super Bowl, we should really be cheering for the Ravens to take down the Dolphins.  I think that locks up MVP for Lamar, but gives us an opening for the #2 seed.

I think/hope voters will sober up after the season ends and realize Lamar has had a totally pedestrian season. Not bad, but not MVP level at all.

 

The betting odds changing and week-to-week flipping of favorites seems to be mostly for generating clicks on articles and driving revenue to DraftKings.

[JohnNord]

10 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

You would also need Lamar to play pretty poorly in beating Miami next week.  Bc if Bal wins, Lamar won’t be playing much or at all in Week 18, as Bal will have wrapped up the bye.

True.  But even if he plays well, it seems like the last impression is the one that sticks with people.  If the Bills somehow end up in the #2 seed because of Josh Allen have two really big games, when you stack up their stats side-by-side there isn’t a comparison.  
 

 Baltimore would be #1 and Buffalo would be #2.  Would 2 or 3 more victories be enough to say Lamar was more deserving?  I don’t think so.

 

I’ll say this though - I think this is a spot where Tyreek Hill can get back into the conversation.   If he has two monster games against Baltimore and Buffalo, I think he has a shot.

 

Bottom line, the MVP is going to be decided in the final two weeks.  

Edited December 26, 2023 by JohnNord

[CincyBillsFan]

47 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Part of that is due to Allen and this team. Buffalo should be competing for #1 seed instead of scrambling to get into the playoffs. Allen’s turnovers have directly led to some of the losses which has put team in this situation. To me the offense has underperformed this year which will end up hurting his case. I do think he is in the conversation though. My vote would go to CMC who is the MVP for the 49ers in a down year overall with the QBs. If Allen wins out in impressive fashion in these last 2 games he could make it close. I think end of the day Bills need to win the AFC east for Allen to potentially win it. 

Allen's TO's led to one loss IMO.  Those other losses had other reasons for why the Bills lost. 

[DapperCam]

6 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

True.  But even if he plays well, it seems like the last impression is the one that sticks with people.  If the Bills somehow end up in the #2 seed because of Josh Allen have two really big games, when you stack up their stats side-by-side there isn’t a comparison.  
 

 Baltimore would be #1 and Buffalo would be #2.  Would 2 or 3 more victories be enough to say Lamar was more deserving?  I don’t think so.

 

I’ll say this though - I think this is a spot where Tyreek Hill can get back into the conversation.   If he has two monster games against Baltimore and Buffalo, I think he has a shot.

 

Bottom line, the MVP is going to be decided in the final two weeks.  

I don’t think Tyreek can win because he is an unsavory character. Regardless of his on-field performance, I think enough sportswriters won’t vote for him for that reason. I also doubt the NFL wants him to win for the same reasons.

[CincyBillsFan]

50 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Maybe, I’d be curious to see that. How many QBs led late drives to put their teams ahead and what was the team record in those games. Not something I’m looking up but my guess would Josh has the most with the most losses. Jmo. Being clutch is when you show up when the game is on the line. Josh has, but the team found ways to lose after

 

Thats the thing, you don’t have to play perfect football all the time to win games. You can’t tell me a QB who has 19 passing TDs hasn’t played some ugly ball at some point in the season. Obviously the D is taking a lot of pressure off him. 
 

The biggest problem with the talking heads and the reason I never listen to them is because they believe players gotta be perfect to win games every week. It’s never gonna be that way. Josh has put up 40 TDs and he’s probably the only MVP candidate in history to have an OC change in season. That’s ***** incredible. 

In their 2nd game against Cleveland the Ravens lost in large part due to Jackson who threw 2 INT's including a backbreaking pick 6.  In their 17 - 10 loss to the Steeler's Jackson threw an INT, was tackled for a safety and lost a fumble without scoring a single TD himself.  The Ravens were shut out in the 2nd half. So yea Jackson has had some clunkers that led directly to losses to.

 

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Made a lot of sense at that time or even before the Eagles game his odds really long but he had a perfect set up to run the table so maybe a good bet risk/reward.

My thoughts exactly. Just don’t tell @transplantbillsfan

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

In their 2nd game against Cleveland the Ravens lost in large part due to Jackson who threw 2 INT's including a backbreaking pick 6.  In their 17 - 10 loss to the Steeler's Jackson threw an INT, was tackled for a safety and lost a fumble without scoring a single TD himself.  The Ravens were shut out in the 2nd half. So yea Jackson has had some clunkers that led directly to losses to.

 

He fumbled in OT against the Colts

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

56 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Has anyone said they would rather have Josh win the MVP as opposed to the Super Bowl?

you tell me. I did, you have a problem with it? 

 

let me reiterate. let's get off the mvp train and look for much greater things, YA DIGG

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

In their 2nd game against Cleveland the Ravens lost in large part due to Jackson who threw 2 INT's including a backbreaking pick 6.  In their 17 - 10 loss to the Steeler's Jackson threw an INT, was tackled for a safety and lost a fumble without scoring a single TD himself.  The Ravens were shut out in the 2nd half. So yea Jackson has had some clunkers that led directly to losses to.

 

At the end of the day team record plays a part in MVP voting.  Regardless of Lamar having a few bad games, Baltimore will probably finish first in the AFC. 

 

Had the Bills not had to scratch and claw to make the playoffs things might be different. 

[billieve420]

46 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Apparently there have been four MVPs since 2000 that did not win their division, the last being Adrian Peterson in 2012.  That path would seemingly be Miami beats Baltimore (which knocks Lamar down), and then Bills would need to have a WC spot still on the line and beat the Dolphins.  In that scenario, the Dolphins would still have the 1 seed on the line, so they’d be playing for something too.  And Josh would really need to be lights out the next two games.

 

But, if the ultimate goal is Super Bowl, we should really be cheering for the Ravens to take down the Dolphins.  I think that locks up MVP for Lamar, but gives us an opening for the #2 seed.

That is where I am at. If the Bills manage to win out which will be crazy feat. I will take Super Bowl and MVP for Allen over any regular season awards.

[Matt_In_NH]

It seems the MVP is kind of wide open still.   I think if Josh killed it the final two weeks he might get it.  

[Bill51390]

Jackson is having a good season, but not an MVP season in my opinion. I get that record matters and the Ravens are 12-3 and the Bills are 9-6. I just don’t feel that the Ravens are 12-3 because of Jackson. Their defense is great and the bigger factor in my opinion. 
 

Jackson stats:

3,357 yards passing

19tds to 7int

66.3 cmp%

63 QBR

786 yards rushing

5tds

 

24 total TDs

4143 total yards

 

Allen stats: 

3,778 yards passing 

27tds to 15int

66.5 cmp%

71.6 QBR

413 rushing yards

13tds

40 total TDs

4191 total yards

 

 

 

Seems clear to me who should be MVP between these two and crazy to me that one is being praised as the clear MVP while the other is hardly being mentioned. I’ve also seen Jackson’s performance this season being compared to his MVP season, when he had over 40tds and 1200 rushing yards. Doesn’t seem comparable.  

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Bill51390

[CincyBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

At the end of the day team record plays a part in MVP voting.  Regardless of Lamar having a few bad games, Baltimore will probably finish first in the AFC. 

 

Had the Bills not had to scratch and claw to make the playoffs things might be different. 

I agree but an analysis of what got the team to the point they are is a criteria for MVP.  Jackson has had a very good but not spectacular season and the Ravens success seems to be due more to their defense then offense.

 

 

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

you tell me. I did, you have a problem with it? 

 

let me reiterate. let's get off the mvp train and look for much greater things, YA DIGG

Actually yes I do have a big problem with you saying you would rather have an MVP than a Super Bowl. Who would rather have that? 
Wanting to see Josh win the MVP (or at least debating it) also doesn’t mean no one wants to win the Super Bowl-who thinks that linearly?

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

If Christian McCaffery or Josh Allen don’t win MVP this year then it’s BS

[finn]

1 hour ago, billieve420 said:

Yeah at this point just get into the playoffs whatever happens with the MVP is out of the team’s control 

You know what Allen would say.