2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he is most likely winner. My point isn't really about who will win. It is more about trying to get under the skin of some of the arguments. 

 

I am a Lamar fan and long since have been. But to me an MVP Quarterback with 19 passing touchdowns after 15 games is kinda mad. But it has been a messy year. 

 

I stick with my view I'd vote for Hill if I had a vote.

I pry would too and he'll take the lead if he goes off and has two monster games against the Ravens and Bills.  It's pry his only shot at this point though.  I don't see him breaking 2,000 yards though because of that game missed.

[Big Blitz]

The Ravens defense has allowed 20 or fewer points TEN times.  In the others it’s 22, 24 twice, 27, and 29.  
 

Lamar is absolutely not the MVP.  He’s a good QB playing with the best defense in the NFL.  

 

MVP is no contest to me right now.  
 

It’s either Hill, CMC, or Allen.

 

 

 

Here is the better debate - and I can’t believe I’m saying this - but if the Bills win out and get the 2 seed……the Coach of the Year is McD. 
 

Decimated defense.  Team in crisis.  Fires OC.  Serious danger of not making playoffs.  
 

Wins division.

 

It’s either him or Stefanski in that scenario - and if I’m not mistaken didn’t Stefanski win it in 2020?  McD should have.  
 

Stefanski

McD

McVay 

 

 

That’s the top 3.  

Edited December 26, 2023 by Big Blitz

[Doc Brown]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

Here is the better debate - and I can’t believe I’m saying this - but if the Bills win out and get the 2 seed……the Coach of the Year is McD. 
 

Decimated defense.  Team in crisis.  Fires OC.  Serious danger of not making playoffs.  
 

Wins division.

 

It’s either him or Stefanski in that scenario.  
 

Stefanski

McD

McVay 

 

 

That’s the top 3.  

Coach of the year usually goes to the one that either goes almost undefeated or takes a team from the dumpster to the playoffs.  There isn't a coach this year that falls neatly in either category.  However, Stefanski winning double digit games with four different starting quarterbacks is imo the most impressive coaching job of the year.

[Scott7975]

 

and this video was made before the Sunday games

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

The Ravens defense has allowed 20 or fewer points TEN times.  In the others it’s 22, 24 twice, 27, and 29.  
 

Lamar is absolutely not the MVP.  He’s a good QB playing with the best defense in the NFL.  

 

MVP is no contest to me right now.  
 

It’s either Hill, CMC, or Allen.

 

 

 

Here is the better debate - and I can’t believe I’m saying this - but if the Bills win out and get the 2 seed……the Coach of the Year is McD. 
 

Decimated defense.  Team in crisis.  Fires OC.  Serious danger of not making playoffs.  
 

Wins division.

 

It’s either him or Stefanski in that scenario - and if I’m not mistaken didn’t Stefanski win it in 2020?  McD should have.  
 

Stefanski

McD

McVay 

 

 

That’s the top 3.  

Our defense allows a whopping 2 less points less a game. 
 

I do agree McDermott might have had his best job coaching but our expectations were so high before the season plus a lot of his problems were self inflicted. But he’s done a great job keeping the team together. 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he is most likely winner. My point isn't really about who will win. It is more about trying to get under the skin of some of the arguments. 

 

I am a Lamar fan and long since have been. But to me an MVP Quarterback with 19 passing touchdowns after 15 games is kinda mad. But it has been a messy year. 

 

I stick with my view I'd vote for Hill if I had a vote.

Honestly, this is a very weak mvp class. The losses and turnovers are going to hold Allen back. Lamar doesn’t have the monster stats but his team generally has the lead and he doesn’t get really stat pad. He is also down to his 3rd string rb and beat arguably the best team on the road without his best weapon. Also, his supporting cast isn’t that good right now. 
 

I think narrative matters and qb on the best team will probably win it. I honestly think another position should win it this year but hill is a garbage human being. I won’t be mad at CMC winning it but ultimately, who cares?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Given the media narrative on Allen, he won’t win it this year.
 

He probably will need an almost perfect year in terms of interceptions to ever win it, since he is now painted as this crazy turnover machine. Just absurd.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Given the media narrative on Allen, he won’t win it this year.
 

He probably will need an almost perfect year in terms of interceptions to ever win it, since he is now painted as this crazy turnover machine. Just absurd.

It's a lazy narrative for sure.

 

I saw Purdy throw the ball behind his head to McCaffery last night while falling and the announcers said he's just trying to make a play. My son and I looked at each other and said" If Josh did that they'd say that's the part of his game we don't like, playing hero ball!"

 

Maddening is right!

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I stick with my view I'd vote for Hill if I had a vote.

 

I agree. Which is why I think Allen is still in it. IMO, the door for Lamar, is winning out and Dolphins beating the Bills to prevent Allen and the Bills from getting the division title. The hype train for Allen for MVP will be through the roof if the Bills win the division in primetime as the final game of the regular season. While Allen tally's 45 total TD's. Lamar is likely to finish with about 29 total TD's. 

 

If the Dolphins beat the Ravens I think Lamar is toast. Don't even care if they end up with the 1 seed still if the Bills beat Maimi the following week. Can't give the MVP to a QB on a 4 loss team with 29 TD's. In that scenario I would look to CMC or Hill.

 

This could be one of the oddest MVP years we've ever had with no player getting over half the vote and multiple players getting 5+ votes. 

 

 

[The Jokeman]

13 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Given the media narrative on Allen, he won’t win it this year.
 

He probably will need an almost perfect year in terms of interceptions to ever win it, since he is now painted as this crazy turnover machine. Just absurd.

If he can lead to the #2 seed he might turn some heads and make writers think better of him when it looked like we were not making the playoffs. 

[LarryMadman]

The anti Josh Allen MVP stuff from everyone is maddening. First it was Hurts, he had a bad stretch so then Dak, he crapped the bed, then Purdy, he bombed last night, CMC and now Lamar because he had one good game. Josh has been consistantly better than all these dudes and he gets overlooked and doesnt get a mention. It's always on to the next guy, yet Josh is never that next guy, that's BS! 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I agree. Which is why I think Allen is still in it. IMO, the door for Lamar, is winning out and Dolphins beating the Bills to prevent Allen and the Bills from getting the division title. The hype train for Allen for MVP will be through the roof if the Bills win the division in primetime as the final game of the regular season. While Allen tally's 45 total TD's. Lamar is likely to finish with about 29 total TD's. 

 

If the Dolphins beat the Ravens I think Lamar is toast. Don't even care if they end up with the 1 seed still if the Bills beat Maimi the following week. Can't give the MVP to a QB on a 4 loss team with 29 TD's. In that scenario I would look to CMC or Hill.

 

This could be one of the oddest MVP years we've ever had with no player getting over half the vote and multiple players getting 5+ votes. 

 

 

I struggled to see them giving a MVP to a 6 loss team. 
 

I also think we going crazy with the Td stat. If instead of giving the ball to JAG Gus Edwards for 11 tds this year, they tush pushed him for like 7 more, does that really matter? 
 

I think if situations were reversed and we will be losing our minds if we had the number 1 record, just beat the 49ers on the road, that we had the MVP. 
 

that said, I’ll put some money on Allen. 

[BRH]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm sorry, but everything you've said in this thread is just ridiculous.

 

I think you should ban yourself from this very thread after you said you don't care about total TDs for QBs.

 

Here's what I'll say about this race. I don't really care about Vegas odds because Vegas doesn't vote on the MVP.

 

MVP voters vote when the season ends. After the last game. If they do that and Buffalo has won out, I think voters will look at the 4 or 5 main candidates at that point (CMC, Tyreek, Lamar, Tua?) and dismiss Tyreek and Tua because they lost head to head against Josh and potentially Lamar. They will dismiss Lamar because he's likely going to have 20 fewer TDs than Allen (TDs equal 6 points for posters like @BullBuchanan who don't actually understand football). 

 

And then it's simply going to boil down to Allen vs CMC. And I think if Allen has 6+ TDs and 2 or fewer turnovers in the last 2 games, the voters are going to look at a QB who scored over 45 TDs leading his team to an almost improbable playoff berth based on mid-season record.

 

And Allen wins it.

I agree with everything you wrote here except the very last part.  While I think Josh *should* win it under those circumstances, I also know the voters will be looking for another reason to penalize him.  And it’ll be “their mid-season record.” It’ll go like this: “well he can’t be THAT valuable or they wouldn’t have been 6-6 in the first place.”  People are funny.  They love to talk about clutch performances when it fits their narrative.  If it doesn’t fit their narrative then they say “well he only got the opportunity to be clutch because he didn’t play well earlier.”  
 

Just seems there’s a group of voters who will NEVER vote for him and are constantly looking for a reason not to. 
 

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I struggled to see them giving a MVP to a 6 loss team. 
 

I also think we going crazy with the Td stat. If instead of giving the ball to JAG Gus Edwards for 11 tds this year, they tush pushed him for like 7 more, does that really matter? 
 

I think if situations were reversed and we will be losing our minds if we had the number 1 record, just beat the 49ers on the road, that we had the MVP. 
 

that said, I’ll put some money on Allen. 

If the Ravens tush-pushed Lamar for all those TDs they’d break him in half and they know it.

Edited December 26, 2023 by BRH

[BananaB]

If the Bills D held up when Josh put the team ahead with under 2 minutes the MVP race would be a lock right now. Losing makes the media believe he wasn’t clutch when needed. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I struggled to see them giving a MVP to a 6 loss team. 
 

I also think we going crazy with the Td stat. If instead of giving the ball to JAG Gus Edwards for 11 tds this year, they tush pushed him for like 7 more, does that really matter? 
 

I think if situations were reversed and we will be losing our minds if we had the number 1 record, just beat the 49ers on the road, that we had the MVP. 
 

that said, I’ll put some money on Allen. 

 

I put some money on Allen back when he was +5000 to win it.

 

Even if we give Lamar half of those Edwards TD's he's still about 10 behind Allen. Also, Allen, doesn't get tush pushed in at nearly the rate as someone like Hurts. Majority of Allen's rushing TD's are from beyond 3 yards out. 

 

It's about how are you playing down the stretch and credit to both Allen and Lamar. They both have their teams playing well right now. And after these last two games Lamar has risen his efficiency from a sub 60 QBR to now a 63 QBR. Allen has been pretty consistently around 71 QBR most the season and he now finds himself 0.1 behind the leader Purdy as both Brock and Dak find themselves playing poorly down the stretch. 

 

Good point about reversing the situations. I think it goes to show it's close between these two. Ironically, to continue to have a chance, they both need to beat the Dolphins. 

[Heavy Kevi]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:43 PM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

If you don’t value a team winning their division down the stretch after being left for dead and being lead by a QB that leads the NFL in total TD’s then that is on you. 
 

wins over KC (Mahomes), Cowboys (Dak) and Miami (Tua) and winning the division when about 5 weeks ago everyone thought the Bills would miss the playoffs. That is quite the story for a QB who leads the league in TD’s and has the third highest QBR in the league (one of only 3 QB’s  in the league with a QBR over 70). 
 

 

Steelers suck!  Hahahaha

 

Its on me?🤣

 

He ain't winning it, dude.

 

If you think that's still a possibility, that's on you.

 

My original comment remains. He has too many turnovers and the team has too many losses.

 

Do I think he's MVP? Yup he is. It's a 3-4 win team without him, but its not Homer Bills fans who vote for MVP, and so it's pretty freaking obvious Josh ain't winning MVP this year.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

15 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

The anti Josh Allen MVP stuff from everyone is maddening. First it was Hurts, he had a bad stretch so then Dak, he crapped the bed, then Purdy, he bombed last night, CMC and now Lamar because he had one good game. Josh has been consistantly better than all these dudes and he gets overlooked and doesnt get a mention. It's always on to the next guy, yet Josh is never that next guy, that's BS! 

 

 

To be fair, Allen has been the odds-on favorite at some point in like each of the last three seasons. He typically starts the season as the MVP favorite. He's had his chances but just like Dak and Purdy in consecutive weeks, it's hard to hold onto that top spot for long. Lamar just finally grabbed it, don't believe he ever held the top spot before last nights game. It has been a carousel of different QB's at the top this year: Allen, Tua, Mahomes, Hurts, Brock, Dak and now Lamar. 

[C.Biscuit97]

11 minutes ago, BananaB said:

If the Bills D held up when Josh put the team ahead with under 2 minutes the MVP race would be a lock right now. Losing makes the media believe he wasn’t clutch when needed. 

You could do this for every qb in the league though. Defense also kept us in games when the offense was struggling too (NE, NYJ, Chargers, Denver). 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

mvp or lombardi?

 

 

lombardi all day.

 

 

mvp means nothing really.

[billieve420]

18 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

The anti Josh Allen MVP stuff from everyone is maddening. First it was Hurts, he had a bad stretch so then Dak, he crapped the bed, then Purdy, he bombed last night, CMC and now Lamar because he had one good game. Josh has been consistantly better than all these dudes and he gets overlooked and doesnt get a mention. It's always on to the next guy, yet Josh is never that next guy, that's BS! 

 

Part of that is due to Allen and this team. Buffalo should be competing for #1 seed instead of scrambling to get into the playoffs. Allen’s turnovers have directly led to some of the losses which has put team in this situation. To me the offense has underperformed this year which will end up hurting his case. I do think he is in the conversation though. My vote would go to CMC who is the MVP for the 49ers in a down year overall with the QBs. If Allen wins out in impressive fashion in these last 2 games he could make it close. I think end of the day Bills need to win the AFC east for Allen to potentially win it. 

[BananaB]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You could do this for every qb in the league though. Defense also kept us in games when the offense was struggling too (NE, NYJ, Chargers, Denver). 

Maybe, I’d be curious to see that. How many QBs led late drives to put their teams ahead and what was the team record in those games. Not something I’m looking up but my guess would Josh has the most with the most losses. Jmo. Being clutch is when you show up when the game is on the line. Josh has, but the team found ways to lose after

 

Thats the thing, you don’t have to play perfect football all the time to win games. You can’t tell me a QB who has 19 passing TDs hasn’t played some ugly ball at some point in the season. Obviously the D is taking a lot of pressure off him. 
 

The biggest problem with the talking heads and the reason I never listen to them is because they believe players gotta be perfect to win games every week. It’s never gonna be that way. Josh has put up 40 TDs and he’s probably the only MVP candidate in history to have an OC change in season. That’s ***** incredible. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by BananaB