2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[Billznut]

I think if the 49ers handle Baltimore tomorrow and Purdy has another great game, he will solidify himself as MVP. The Lamar talk will be completely over. If the Ravens handle the 49ers and it’s Lamar who has the great game, I think he will pass Purdy. Generally QB of the team with the best record in the league will get lots and lots of MVP votes. So winner of this game will have a lot to do with final MVP voting I’d imagine. 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

Problem was what the defense gave up much of the game.

 

After the first drive (on script) where the defense gave up 90 yards but stiffened it gave up 183 yards at an average of 16 per Chargers drive. 

 

The narrative that the defense was the problem last night is insane the issues were Allen, Harty and Cook needlessly giving the ball away.

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Still I recognize he was the only reason we scored points today and had to overcome a lot of bad play from the talent around him.

 

Did he? The Oline had one disaster drive and Cook but the ball on the ground. But the other three Bills drives that failed were two Josh Allen misses to wide open guys on 3rd down and then a stupid pick he didn't need to throw. 

 

Equally the play he makes for our first touchdown was incredible. So I am not ragging on Josh. But this was not, overall, a game where Josh was superman despite failure around him. This was a game where his receivers - Davis, Diggs and Shakir all made really good plays for Allen.

[VaMilBill]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

After the first drive (on script) where the defense gave up 90 yards but stiffened it gave up 183 yards at an average of 16 per Chargers drive. 

 

The narrative that the defense was the problem last night is insane the issues were Allen, Harty and Cook needlessly giving the ball away.

 

Did he? The Oline had one disaster drive and Cook but the ball on the ground. But the other three Bills drives that failed were two Josh Allen misses to wide open guys on 3rd down and then a stupid pick he didn't need to throw. 

 

Equally the play he makes for our first touchdown was incredible. So I am not ragging on Josh. But this was not, overall, a game where Josh was superman despite failure around him. This was a game where his receivers - Davis, Diggs and Shakir all made really good plays for Allen.

The other huge issue was the costly penalties. Spencer brown on the tripping was not a smart play by him. He did his job by making the DE stumble with the initial block. No need to throw his legs. The following Morse holding was absolutely ludicrous. 
 

I honestly think that drive would have been a successful one

[Since1981]

Josh is not a league MVP this year. let’s move on. 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

The other huge issue was the costly penalties. Spencer brown on the tripping was not a smart play by him. He did his job by making the DE stumble with the initial block. No need to throw his legs. The following Morse holding was absolutely ludicrous. 
 

I honestly think that drive would have been a successful one

 

Yea that drive was almost a turnover given we went backwards ended under our own posts and Martin even getting to midfield was a triumph.

[Kirby Jackson]

Josh was not good last night. This isn’t the game where we march to Twitter (still calling it that) and demand his MVP case be taken seriously.
 

Cook, Diggs, McDermott and Brady also struggled. The Bills still found a way to win a must-win game. They’ll be better next week and enter week 18 with a chance to be in the playoffs (likely to win the division). 

 

On the flip side, shoutouts to Gabe Davis and Ed Oliver on getting the job done tonight. Ed Oliver is a star.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[finn]

2 hours ago, dma0034 said:

 

I think if the Bills end up with the #2 seed then there will be a lot of talk about Allen being MVP. He's going to have 45 Total TDs which will lead the league. Only big obstacle is the TO narrative.

Rename the prize "Most indispensable player," and Allen would win in a landslide.

 

Purdy is good. Allen is great.

[mrags]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

What wasn't hard? Finding a tweet that supported your opinion? *shocked*

You understand that prop betting odds aren't dictated solely by what is most likely to happen, right? What am I saying, of course you don't. You guys aren't even football fans, you're just Bills stans. You have a complete lack of respect for the immense amount of talent in this league and it's on full display here.

Purdy could spot Allen a full game and he still wouldn't catch him. He probably won't catch Dak either and he should be miles behind CMC.

 

 

 

 

lol. How you figure? He’s got 2 less passing TDs than Purdy right now. Like 20 yards less than Purdy while being 150 or so short of the league lead. He’s currently 3rd in passing yards,  3rd in passing TDs. And 3rd in rushing TDs for the entire league. Tied with CMC btw for rushing TDs. He currently is #1 in Touchdowns in the entire league with 40. A not even close second is Hurts with 33 and then Purdy wirh 31. Dak is 4th with 30. So…. I’d say that Josh could spot every other player in the league 2 games. And they still wouldn’t catch his TD total. 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Did he?

 

Yes. His pass catchers had trouble separating all night. The OL lost the battle in the run and pass game. Blitzes weren't picked up, as usual. The run game was non-existent. Cook fumbled one drive away. Harty fumbled one drive away. So yes I believe the only reason we did anything on offense was because of several special plays from Josh. He was Superman and he was Clark Kent. The couple of missed throws were annoying and stuck out because the volume of passing plays was so low. On the whole though there was never any rhythm or consistency to the passing game, against a really poor passing defense. And a lot of that was caused by his teammates.

 

Also Gunner I don't agree with your assessment of the defense. I know the stats are good. But it is Easton Stick missing his top 2 WRs and an OL down to their 3rd center. We should have totally dominated them... I'm talking several consecutive 3 and outs, that sort of thing. We should not have allowed a TD, even after the Harty fumble. Maybe the interim coach bump was real and we were unprepared for what they called. But on the whole I was underwhelmed by the defense. It felt like they did the bare minimum against a talent deficient offense featuring a backup QB, when a really good defense would have had the game won by the start of the 4th quarter.

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by HappyDays

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes. His pass catchers had trouble separating all night. The OL lost the battle in the run and pass game. Blitzes weren't picked up, as usual. The run game was non-existent. Cook fumbled one drive away. Harty fumbled one drive away. So yes I believe the only reason we did anything on offense was because of several special plays from Josh. He was Superman and he was Clark Kent. The couple of missed throws were annoying and stuck out because the volume of passing plays was so low. On the whole though there was never any rhythm or consistency to the passing game, against a really poor passing defense. And a lot of that was caused by his teammates.

 

Also Gunner I don't agree with your assessment of the defense. I know the stats are good. But it is Easton Stick missing his top 2 WRs and an OL down to their 3rd center. We should have totally dominated them... I'm talking several consecutive 3 and outs, that sort of thing. We should not have allowed a TD, even after the Harty fumble. Maybe the interim coach bump was real and we were unprepared for what they called. But on the whole I was underwhelmed by the defense. It felt like they did the bare minimum against a talent deficient offense featuring a backup QB, when a really good defense would have had the game won by the start of the 4th quarter.

 

 

I am afraid we watched completely different games. 

 

The reason we didn't win going away was 3 turnovers, Josh missing two easy 3rd down throws and the OL having one total brain fart drive. 

 

The Bills were well coached, had a good plan, and but for unforced errors by players would have won by miles.

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Josh missing two easy 3rd down throws

 

I was struggling to remember the 2nd one. You're talking about the pass to Kincaid that was a bit too high? In real time I thought that play had no chance of picking up more than maybe 5 yards, there was a defender immediately bearing down on Kincaid who would have hit him right after the catch. I thought that throw was just Josh conceding the drive. That play was an example of what I mean, he is patting the ball looking downfield and no one is separating. I just don't understand how against a poor pass defense we were struggling to hold the line and separate all night.

[Process]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

I was struggling to remember the 2nd one. You're talking about the pass to Kincaid that was a bit too high? In real time I thought that play had no chance of picking up more than maybe 5 yards, there was a defender immediately bearing down on Kincaid who would have hit him right after the catch. I thought that throw was just Josh conceding the drive. That play was an example of what I mean, he is patting the ball looking downfield and no one is separating. I just don't understand how against a poor pass defense we were struggling to hold the line and separate all night.

There were definitely times where Allen made the o line look worse than they were by bailing on clean pockets etc. he was a bit erratic yesterday. We saw that a lot earlier in the year. 

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Process said:

There were definitely times where Allen made the o line look worse than they were by bailing on clean pockets etc. he was a bit erratic yesterday. We saw that a lot earlier in the year. 

 

Josh has ALWAYS bailed out of clean pockets. Mahomes does the same thing. It's a feature of their game, not a bug. Both QBs become about 10x more dangerous when they roll right. If you haven't learned to live with that part of his game yet, you never will... Like on Davis's TD I don't know if Josh needed to leave the pocket there but I'm sure glad he did.

[Motorin']

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am afraid we watched completely different games. 

 

The reason we didn't win going away was 3 turnovers, Josh missing two easy 3rd down throws and the OL having one total brain fart drive. 

 

The Bills were well coached, had a good plan, and but for unforced errors by players would have won by miles.

 

Too many people are looking at the Chargers blowout loss last week like that's who they are. That was their worst moment. 

 

They have 5 wins. And 6 losses by 3 points or less to Miami, Dallas, Detroit, Green Bay, Tenn and the Bills. 

 

They've been competitive for the entire season, and Stick has played well. 

 

I thought it was going to be tight early, and expected to see the Bills wake up in the second half and cruise to a 10-14 point W.  

 

The 3 TO's gave them 13 of their 22 points... Self-inflicted yet again...  But against a team fired up after major embarrassment who were close enough to potentially win 11 games up to this point in the season. 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Josh has ALWAYS bailed out of clean pockets. Mahomes does the same thing. It's a feature of their game, not a bug. Both QBs become about 10x more dangerous when they roll right. If you haven't learned to live with that part of his game yet, you never will... Like on Davis's TD I don't know if Josh needed to leave the pocket there but I'm sure glad he did.

Right kind of like a nothing there, nothings there lets move and see if I can't scare someone into coming open.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

. I just don't understand how against a poor pass defense we were struggling to hold the line and separate all night.

 

We weren't.

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Funny how much that INT is going to hurt Allen. Really tough throw. Not necessarily a bad decision, just a bad throw.

 

Regardless, 1st QB in NFL history with 40+ TDs in 4 consecutive seasons.

 

That actually surprised me cause I thought Mahomes reached that.

 

Plus...

 

1st and only QB in NFL history to run and pass for a TD in 11 games in a season.

 

Survive and advance...

 

 

Love moments like the last tweet.  That kid will never forget that moment.

[Scott7975]

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The reason we didn't win going away

 

erm we did win.

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We weren't.

 

The line did struggle.  They were in heavy sets quite a bit.  Even putting a big fat guy in motion.  Not many other QB on that last drive would have converted that play to save the game either.  Maybe Lamar escapes and does something.  Maybe Mahomes could have made that throw.  Everyone else eats dirt there or throws an int.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Scott7975

[BullBuchanan]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

lol. How you figure? He’s got 2 less passing TDs than Purdy right now. Like 20 yards less than Purdy while being 150 or so short of the league lead. He’s currently 3rd in passing yards,  3rd in passing TDs. And 3rd in rushing TDs for the entire league. Tied with CMC btw for rushing TDs. He currently is #1 in Touchdowns in the entire league with 40. A not even close second is Hurts with 33 and then Purdy wirh 31. Dak is 4th with 30. So…. I’d say that Josh could spot every other player in the league 2 games. And they still wouldn’t catch his TD total. 

You realize that he's played an extra game over all those players and he's still that far behind, right?

[Heavy Kevi]

5 hours ago, Since1981 said:

Josh is not a league MVP this year. let’s move on. 

 

For real. Love Josh, but...

 

This thread being revived every week is so weird.

 

It does not matter what happens in next 2 games, or even in the last 5 or so. He has too many turnovers and the team has too many losses.

 

It's like discussing if my pickup truck will beat the land speed record... Ain't happening no matter how much we talk about it.