2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

What?

Tua has a higher YPG and his TD per game is equal. He has a 0.45 INT ratio compared to Allens 54% Int ratio. He also has a higher completion percentage, and blows him out of the water on Passer Rating. Most importantly, he's winning.

and yet Allen has scored 11 more TDs than him.

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

and yet Allen has scored 11 more TDs than him.

We already covered rushing TDs. I personally don't think they mean very much for a QB, because it's just siphoning TDs that in most offenses would go to a RB. What else you got?

Tua will probably drop another 3-4TDs this week and leave Allen even further in the dust in every other category.

Besides Tua, He'd also definitely be behind Dak, Jackson, Purdy, Stroud, and likely Mahomes.  Hurts, Goff, Herbert and Allen are all playing pretty equally this year with the primary difference being two of them are leading their teams to piles of wins, Allen is .500 and Herbert is in the basement. After the Bills bye, it's not unrealistic for them all to have pretty identical stat lines.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

We already covered rushing TDs. I personally don't think they mean very much for a QB, because it's just siphoning TDs that in most offenses would go to a RB. What else you got?
 

Except that over the last few years our stable of RB's haven't been very good at scoring TD's on the ground. How many times has 1st & goal from the 5 turned into 2nd a goal from the 7 after handing the ball off?  Harris was supposed to be the RB that took over scoring TD's from inside the 10 but he got hurt. And the last I looked it's not like Allen is doing the Tush Push or diving over the pile from the half yard line to score his TD's  In fact here are Allen's 9 TD runs:  1 yard, 2 yards, 3 yards, 6 yards, 9 yards, 10 yards, 11 yards, 13 yards & 16 yards.

 

I wish we had a RB that could score TD's from those distances in 12 games.  But alas we haven't had one that could do it over the last 6 seasons.

 

 

[Scott7975]

24 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

We already covered rushing TDs. I personally don't think they mean very much for a QB, because it's just siphoning TDs that in most offenses would go to a RB. What else you got?

Tua will probably drop another 3-4TDs this week and leave Allen even further in the dust in every other category.

Besides Tua, He'd also definitely be behind Dak, Jackson, Purdy, Stroud, and likely Mahomes.  Hurts, Goff, Herbert and Allen are all playing pretty equally this year with the primary difference being two of them are leading their teams to piles of wins, Allen is .500 and Herbert is in the basement. After the Bills bye, it's not unrealistic for them all to have pretty identical stat lines.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

21 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

We already covered rushing TDs. I personally don't think they mean very much for a QB, because it's just siphoning TDs that in most offenses would go to a RB. What else you got?

 

I used to think the same but Allen is one of the best QB’s in the  league in terms of scoring rushing TD’s from 5 yards out or beyond. A lot of his are in that 5-10 yard spot on the field. Those are not guaranteed TD’s for RB’s in that range. 
 

He’s not getting tush pushed into the end zone from 1 yard out very often. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I guess you're conceding?

[Scott7975]

15 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I guess you're conceding?

 

Conceding what?  It was just a joke and now it's pretty realistic... you actually do need the shot.

 

If you actually want me to respond... Not all of Allen's TDs are from Tush Push range.  How many little 1 yard flips does a QB like Mahomes or Jackson have that count as passing TDs?  Same basic idea of your flawed premise.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Scott7975

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

29 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

We already covered rushing TDs. I personally don't think they mean very much for a QB, because it's just siphoning TDs that in most offenses would go to a RB. What else you got?

 

let’s further expand on this. Because in theory I think it is usually somewhat true. How valuable really are TD’s from a QB inside the 2 yard line?

 

Josh Allen 47 career rushing TD’s

 

3 or fewer yards - 22 (47%)

10-19 yards out -  12 (26%)

4-9 yards out - 11 (23%)

30 or more - 2 (4%)

20-29 yards out -1 (2%)

 

Jalen Hurts 37 career rushing TD’s

 

3 or fewer yards out - 25 (68%)

4-9 yards out - 6 (16%)

10-19 yards out - 3 (8%)

20-29 yards our - 3 (8%)

 

There is a massive difference between the typical Jalen Hurts rushing TD and a Josh Allen rushing TD.

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Conceding what?  It was just a joke and now it's pretty realistic... you actually do need the shot.

 

If you actually want me to respond... Not all of Allen's TDs are from Tush Push range.  How many little 1 yard flips does a QB like Mahomes or Jackson have that count as passing TDs?  Same basic idea of your flawed premise.

I'm not fighting rushing TDs. Josh is clearly one of the top 2 rushing QBs in the NFL, he's also one of the overall most athletic QBs in the NFL. Most of my post was about other things.

[Scott7975]

14 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not fighting rushing TDs. Josh is clearly one of the top 2 rushing QBs in the NFL, he's also one of the overall most athletic QBs in the NFL. Most of my post was about other things.

 

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

We already covered rushing TDs. I personally don't think they mean very much for a QB, because it's just siphoning TDs that in most offenses would go to a RB. What else you got?

 

 

I'm not fighting MVP because its a record reward, not an actual play reward.  Allen will never see this reward this season.  I would argue a season he should have seen it.  Maybe even two.  He didn't win the one seed though so...  I would also argue Allen has done a lot more in his career with less than these other guys and that the standard seems much higher for him. 

 

I am commenting on just your post about QB runs though.  You clearly wrote that you don't think they mean much.  If they don't mean much then neither should these little 1 yard flips or little flips behind the los count as a passing TD mean much.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Scott7975

[ToGoGo]

16 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

let’s further expand on this. Because in theory I think it is usually somewhat true. How valuable really are TD’s from a QB inside the 2 yard line?

 

Josh Allen 47 career rushing TD’s

 

3 or fewer yards - 22 (47%)

10-19 yards out -  12 (26%)

4-9 yards out - 11 (23%)

30 or more - 2 (4%)

20-29 yards out -1 (2%)

 

Jalen Hurts 37 career rushing TD’s

 

3 or fewer yards out - 25 (68%)

4-9 yards out - 6 (16%)

10-19 yards out - 3 (8%)

20-29 yards our - 3 (8%)

 

There is a massive difference between the typical Jalen Hurts rushing TD and a Josh Allen rushing TD.

Thank you for destroying common narratives. 
 

Josh Allen is the best QB of our generation. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

 

I'm not fighting MVP because its a record reward, not an actual play reward.  Allen will never see this reward this season.  I would argue a season he should have seen it.  Maybe even two.  He didn't win the one seed though so...  I would also argue Allen has done a lot more in his career with less than these other guys and that the standard seems much higher for him. 

 

I am commenting on just your post about QB runs though.  You clearly wrote that you don't think they mean much.  If they don't mean much then neither should these little 1 yard flips or little flips behind the los count as a passing TD mean much.

I'm not arguing those should either. Frankly, trying to evaluate the best player via aggregate stats is a dumb way to measure performance regardless. They do nothing to tell you the value that a player added to a play, game, or season over another player.

[Scott7975]

57 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not arguing those should either. Frankly, trying to evaluate the best player via aggregate stats is a dumb way to measure performance regardless. They do nothing to tell you the value that a player added to a play, game, or season over another player.

 

So have you gone and removed all those and then compared TD passes?  I doubt it.

[Warcodered]

On 12/1/2023 at 5:14 PM, BullBuchanan said:

Tua will probably drop another 3-4TDs this week and leave Allen even further in the dust in every other category.

Well so much for that.

[BullBuchanan]

14 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Well so much for that.

So much for what? Did you miss his dominating performance?

[Warcodered]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

So much for what? Did you miss his dominating performance?

3-4 TDs and leave Allen in the dust...well he did catch up in passing TDs by having 2 so you know not the 3-4 day you predicted, as to leaving him in the dust in other categories yeah he didn't really do that. As to his dominating performance his running backs had a hell of a day with 3 TDs. Obviously he had a good day but he definitely didn't do what you said he would.

 

Honestly with the schedule the Dolphins have left I wouldn't be surprised if Allen passed him in passing TDs and yards again.

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

3-4 TDs and leave Allen in the dust...well he did catch up in passing TDs by having 2 so you know not the 3-4 day you predicted, as to leaving him in the dust in other categories yeah he didn't really do that. As to his dominating performance his running backs had a hell of a day with 3 TDs. Obviously he had a good day but he definitely didn't do what you said he would.

 

Honestly with the schedule the Dolphins have left I wouldn't be surprised if Allen passed him in passing TDs and yards again.

He absolutely did though. He completed 75% of his passes with a 141 passer rating. He was just shy of perfect and had his team resting by half time. He now leads Allen in every meaningful passing category. Are you trying to look silly?

[Warcodered]

11 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

He absolutely did though. He completed 75% of his passes with a 141 passer rating. He was just shy of perfect and had his team resting by half time. He now leads Allen in every meaningful passing category. Are you trying to look silly?

Not in passing TDs.

[Chicken Boo]

On 12/1/2023 at 7:14 PM, ToGoGo said:

Thank you for destroying common narratives. 
 

Josh Allen is the best QB of our generation. 

 

At his best, he sure looks like it, but he needs to be more consistent. 

 

Over these next 5 weeks, I'm expecting we'll see MVP level Josh.

[BullBuchanan]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Not in passing TDs.

He's tied and has less INTs. Try again.