2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

I wouldn't consider miami one of the bigger markets,  that's reserved for NYC, Philadelphia, San Francisco. Dallas etc..

 

Anyways,  I agree it's ridiculous how much the media gets on josh for turnovers when all these other qbs get a pass. Even mahommes has started to turn the ball over. 

 

If the bills win the next two games with Josh playing well I think he would be the front runner for mvp. Or at the very least he will be ahead of mahommes and hurts.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/22/2023 at 5:58 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

People act like Jackson is still a rb (and I think there are some other reason why) so when the media votes him a MVP, it makes those people like stupid. 
 

no one with a brain questions how good of a qb Allen is. Yes he gets flack for turnovers/ not taking the next step in the playoffs but an mvp doesn’t change how good I/ most bills fans already know how good he is. 
 

and as players leave/ change, I stop caring about the individual stuff. It’s all about Buffalo.  Sadly, a mvp is just more leverage an agent can use to drive up a contracf. 
 

but I’ve derail enough. My apologizes. And based on how he transformed that team, I would vote for McCaffrey. Purdy would be a Plummer without him 

 

Here's the ultimate question then...

 

how good of a QB is Allen?

 

I'm genuinely curious what your bar for having a brain is... because on top of seeing some interesting comments from you about Allen on this board, he gets swiped at all the time in the national media.

[Alphadawg7]

The funny thing is that the actual Bills skid could work in Allen's favor now...if Allen and the offense play like they did against the Jets and the Bills say run the table, then all of a sudden Allen is going to look like he was being impacted negatively by an OC who was the wrong fit in Dorsey and his turnovers will have less impact in the convo if he substantially lowers them under Brady.  

 

Allen plays at a high level and Bills beat Hurts and Mahomes in consecutive weeks, he is going to legit be back in the MVP convo.  But even that being said, I still think it is going to be hard for him to win it after they have spent most the season hammering him about turnovers.  If Bills run through this gauntlet winning and Allen puts up like 20+ TD's over the final 6 games and has no more than say 3 or 4 turnovers, then they will be more forced to take notice and he would have a real shot.  

 

But that is the harsh truth - Josh is just always going to get judged harder.  And this year, this offense under Dorsey for 6 weeks gave them plenty of ammo.  

 

Lets say Bills win out that means...Mahomes lost to Allen...Hurts lost to Allen...Tua and Hill lost to Allen and the Bills twice.  Allen presumably still leading the NFL in TD's if we win out, he should have a leg up on those guys.  That leaves other guys like Lamar, McCaffrey, and Purdy left in the convo.  

 

Lamar's stats fall well short of Allens, and if Allen runs the gauntlet there will be some benefit of the doubt that Dorsey was more the problem than Allen was.  So Allen likely still has a leg up on Lamar.

 

McCaffrey and Purdy though are different stories.  If the Niners continue to play this way, they will both have strong cases.  And quite honestly, if the Niners play like they have the last couple weeks for the rest of the season, I think Brock Purdy will win the MVP.  He is playing lights out, and probably better than anyone in the NFL right now.  Even in the 3 game skid he drove them down the field against the stout Cle defense and the rookie kicker missed a gimme FG (which eliminated me in my suicide pool, so I am still pissed at Moody lol).  

[LeGOATski]

22 hours ago, Chaos said:

By NFL standards, Miami is a medium sized market, 18th https://ustvdb.com/seasons/2022-23/markets/
 

Still much bigger than Buffalo. It's the 9th largest city in the US, has a team for every sport and gets tons of media attention in every regard. That's why the Dolphins are hyped every off-season. If there's a sign of them being any good, they're a favorite.

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The funny thing is that the actual Bills skid could work in Allen's favor now...if Allen and the offense play like they did against the Jets and the Bills say run the table, then all of a sudden Allen is going to look like he was being impacted negatively by an OC who was the wrong fit in Dorsey and his turnovers will have less impact in the convo if he substantially lowers them under Brady.  

 

Allen plays at a high level and Bills beat Hurts and Mahomes in consecutive weeks, he is going to legit be back in the MVP convo.  But even that being said, I still think it is going to be hard for him to win it after they have spent most the season hammering him about turnovers.  If Bills run through this gauntlet winning and Allen puts up like 20+ TD's over the final 6 games and has no more than say 3 or 4 turnovers, then they will be more forced to take notice and he would have a real shot.  

 

But that is the harsh truth - Josh is just always going to get judged harder.  And this year, this offense under Dorsey for 6 weeks gave them plenty of ammo.  

 

Lets say Bills win out that means...Mahomes lost to Allen...Hurts lost to Allen...Tua and Hill lost to Allen and the Bills twice.  Allen presumably still leading the NFL in TD's if we win out, he should have a leg up on those guys.  That leaves other guys like Lamar, McCaffrey, and Purdy left in the convo.  

 

Lamar's stats fall well short of Allens, and if Allen runs the gauntlet there will be some benefit of the doubt that Dorsey was more the problem than Allen was.  So Allen likely still has a leg up on Lamar.

 

McCaffrey and Purdy though are different stories.  If the Niners continue to play this way, they will both have strong cases.  And quite honestly, if the Niners play like they have the last couple weeks for the rest of the season, I think Brock Purdy will win the MVP.  He is playing lights out, and probably better than anyone in the NFL right now.  Even in the 3 game skid he drove them down the field against the stout Cle defense and the rookie kicker missed a gimme FG (which eliminated me in my suicide pool, so I am still pissed at Moody lol).  

I'll never be sold on Brock Purdy as an MVP. He's a product of that system, the same one that made the likes of Nick Mullens look great. He's not the MVP of his own team, let alone the league.

[Ray Stonada]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The funny thing is that the actual Bills skid could work in Allen's favor now...if Allen and the offense play like they did against the Jets and the Bills say run the table, then all of a sudden Allen is going to look like he was being impacted negatively by an OC who was the wrong fit in Dorsey and his turnovers will have less impact in the convo if he substantially lowers them under Brady.  

 

Allen plays at a high level and Bills beat Hurts and Mahomes in consecutive weeks, he is going to legit be back in the MVP convo.  But even that being said, I still think it is going to be hard for him to win it after they have spent most the season hammering him about turnovers.  If Bills run through this gauntlet winning and Allen puts up like 20+ TD's over the final 6 games and has no more than say 3 or 4 turnovers, then they will be more forced to take notice and he would have a real shot.  

 

But that is the harsh truth - Josh is just always going to get judged harder.  And this year, this offense under Dorsey for 6 weeks gave them plenty of ammo.  

 

Lets say Bills win out that means...Mahomes lost to Allen...Hurts lost to Allen...Tua and Hill lost to Allen and the Bills twice.  Allen presumably still leading the NFL in TD's if we win out, he should have a leg up on those guys.  That leaves other guys like Lamar, McCaffrey, and Purdy left in the convo.  

 

Lamar's stats fall well short of Allens, and if Allen runs the gauntlet there will be some benefit of the doubt that Dorsey was more the problem than Allen was.  So Allen likely still has a leg up on Lamar.

 

McCaffrey and Purdy though are different stories.  If the Niners continue to play this way, they will both have strong cases.  And quite honestly, if the Niners play like they have the last couple weeks for the rest of the season, I think Brock Purdy will win the MVP.  He is playing lights out, and probably better than anyone in the NFL right now.  Even in the 3 game skid he drove them down the field against the stout Cle defense and the rookie kicker missed a gimme FG (which eliminated me in my suicide pool, so I am still pissed at Moody lol).  

 

Great post. I will believe Allen getting an MVP only when I see it.

 

Too many clowns piled on to the "Josh Allen sucks" narrative early on for them to accept he's truly elite. They use different excuses every year: accuracy, one-score games, turnovers... and he's never a negative outlier like they imply. Most of the couch jockey media just follow the herd.

 

Truth is Allen has put up numbers equal to Mahomes over the last three years with much worse offensive coaching and with a supporting cast that is good but not great like Tua or Burrow.

 

One thing I like about Tony Romo is he made a point last game to point out that Allen is in the topmost tier of truly elite QBs in the league, haters nonwithstanding.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Ray Stonada

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

 

I'll never be sold on Brock Purdy as an MVP. He's a product of that system, the same one that made the likes of Nick Mullens look great. He's not the MVP of his own team, let alone the league.

But when did Nick Mullens ever “look great”?  What Mullens did was not in the same league of Purdy.  Will Purdy get figured out or keep it up is a legit question and though still.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[BBFL]

On 11/25/2023 at 6:28 AM, TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th said:

I wouldn't consider miami one of the bigger markets,  that's reserved for NYC, Philadelphia, San Francisco. Dallas etc..

 

Anyways,  I agree it's ridiculous how much the media gets on josh for turnovers when all these other qbs get a pass. Even mahommes has started to turn the ball over. 

 

If the bills win the next two games with Josh playing well I think he would be the front runner for mvp. Or at the very least he will be ahead of mahommes and hurts.

I don’t know how you can’t include Lamar in that case. Especially if Baltimore keep winning. 
 

People are still upset with Hurts not getting it last year but if you remove him and put say a Derek Carr, Russell Wilson or some other reasonable vet do Philadelphia lose that many more games? I like Hurts and think he’s talented but he has a pretty solid team from top to bottom. 
 

Conversation sure. But there’s more in the mix than just Mahomes and Hurts for Allen to compete with. 
 

Heck, you could even make a case for CMC in San Fran. 

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

But when did Nick Mullens ever “look great”?  What Mullens did was not in the same league of Purdy.  Will Purdy get figured out or keep it up is a legit question and though still.

I'm sure he'll keep "it" up. The "it" we're talking about being average to above-average QB play on a great team, with a great coach. He's a Kirk Cousins level QB and should never be an MVP candidate unless he somehow acquires superstar-level ability. If not, there are much more deserving players, like the RB behind him.

[Warcodered]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The funny thing is that the actual Bills skid could work in Allen's favor now...if Allen and the offense play like they did against the Jets and the Bills say run the table, then all of a sudden Allen is going to look like he was being impacted negatively by an OC who was the wrong fit in Dorsey and his turnovers will have less impact in the convo if he substantially lowers them under Brady.  

 

Allen plays at a high level and Bills beat Hurts and Mahomes in consecutive weeks, he is going to legit be back in the MVP convo.  But even that being said, I still think it is going to be hard for him to win it after they have spent most the season hammering him about turnovers.  If Bills run through this gauntlet winning and Allen puts up like 20+ TD's over the final 6 games and has no more than say 3 or 4 turnovers, then they will be more forced to take notice and he would have a real shot.  

 

But that is the harsh truth - Josh is just always going to get judged harder.  And this year, this offense under Dorsey for 6 weeks gave them plenty of ammo.  

 

Lets say Bills win out that means...Mahomes lost to Allen...Hurts lost to Allen...Tua and Hill lost to Allen and the Bills twice.  Allen presumably still leading the NFL in TD's if we win out, he should have a leg up on those guys.  That leaves other guys like Lamar, McCaffrey, and Purdy left in the convo.  

 

Lamar's stats fall well short of Allens, and if Allen runs the gauntlet there will be some benefit of the doubt that Dorsey was more the problem than Allen was.  So Allen likely still has a leg up on Lamar.

 

McCaffrey and Purdy though are different stories.  If the Niners continue to play this way, they will both have strong cases.  And quite honestly, if the Niners play like they have the last couple weeks for the rest of the season, I think Brock Purdy will win the MVP.  He is playing lights out, and probably better than anyone in the NFL right now.  Even in the 3 game skid he drove them down the field against the stout Cle defense and the rookie kicker missed a gimme FG (which eliminated me in my suicide pool, so I am still pissed at Moody lol).  

In that scenario that might directly result with Allen winning, with McCaffrey and Purdy both being up there, there's a good possibility they split their vote or at least damage Purdy's while Josh wouldn't have that problem. Still even without the OC change Josh was already in a position where going on a run would have given him a shot because no one has really run away with it, if you're saying the change gives him a better narrative that only benefits him. Still he obviously has to actually do it.

[Chaos]

Hurts should be considered out of the MVP race as of today 

[mrags]

18 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Hurts should be considered out of the MVP race as of today 

Thanks for jinxing it 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Hurts should be considered out of the MVP race as of today 

At least wait till the game is over to post this crap.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Hurts should be considered out of the MVP race as of today 

One of the dumbest posts in the history of this board. Beyond stupid. 

[transplantbillsfan]

We just got hosed on so many plays today. Allen was spectacular. His team and coaches (and the refs) really let him down.

 

 

[ToGoGo]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

We just got hosed on so many plays today. Allen was spectacular. His team and coaches (and the refs) really let him down.

 

 

 
He would’ve shot back up into the MVP conversation with a win. 
 

But because the Eagles hit a 59 yard field goal, it’s Hurts who gets the glory. Team game. MVP is a partially team award. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

And another INT.

 

Hes phenominal, but too many give aways and not enough Ws 

[Dr.Sack]

Tyler Norwood and Sean Levy made sure Allen lost. 

[Dan in Owego]

1 minute ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

And another INT.

 

Hes phenominal, but too many give aways and not enough Ws 

In some games i might agree with you, but not this one get outta here with this take, Allen was remarkable.

[FireChans]

How many MVPs get their OC and HC fired in the same season?

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

And another INT.

 

Hes phenominal, but too many give aways and not enough Ws 

Every diamond has a flaw ..

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

How many MVPs get their OC and HC fired in the same season?

Think Tyrod might have gone close to the MVP the year Rex got axed ..