2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[transplantbillsfan]

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Mahomes & Purdy seriously falter. Cousins tore his Achilles.

 

Who's actually ahead of Allen right now?

 

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Who's actually ahead of Allen right now?

 

If our defense had simply stopped Mac Jones in a 2 minute drill Allen would probably be the MVP favorite right now. Which shows you how pointless the award really is. But ultimately it is still likely to be the QB of the #1 seed in either conference, like it usually is.

 

Part of me wonders if we'll finally get a non-QB MVP this year? McCaffrey? Hill? No one QB is clearly dominating the competition.

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by HappyDays

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If our defense had simply stopped Mac Jones in a 2 minute drill Allen would probably be the MVP favorite right now. Which shows you how pointless the award really is. But ultimately it is still likely to be the QB of the #1 seed in either conference, like it usually is.

 

Part of me wonders if we'll finally get a non-QB MVP this year? McCaffrey? Hill? No one QB is clearly dominating the competition.

 

I think you can definitely make a case for Tyreek Hill right now.

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If our defense had simply stopped Mac Jones in a 2 minute drill Allen would probably be the MVP favorite right now. Which shows you how pointless the award really is. But ultimately it is still likely to be the QB of the #1 seed in either conference, like it usually is.

 

Part of me wonders if we'll finally get a non-QB MVP this year? McCaffrey? Hill? No one QB is clearly dominating the competition.

 

Counterpoint: If Josh Allen had turned it over only THREE times against the Jets, or hadn't thrown a pick his first play from scrimmage against the Pats, he would probably be the MVP favorite right now.

 

It's a W/L stat primarily, and unfortunately QB's who turn it over a lot turn some easy wins into losses.

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint: If Josh Allen had turned it over only THREE times against the Jets, or hadn't thrown a pick his first play from scrimmage against the Pats, he would probably be the MVP favorite right now.

 

It's a W/L stat primarily, and unfortunately QB's who turn it over a lot turn some easy wins into losses.

Jets game was on him.

 

Pats game he didn’t play great but at the end of the day he had 2 TD drives in the 4th quarter and gave them the lead.

 

Great QBs always have those kinda games, where they struggle but come up clutch in the 4th.

 

That is on the defence to stop the worst offence in the NFL with 1:50 to go

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Jets game was on him.

 

Pats game he didn’t play great but at the end of the day he had 2 TD drives in the 4th quarter and gave them the lead.

 

Great QBs always have those kinda games, where they struggle but come up clutch in the 4th.

 

That is on the defence to stop the worst offence in the NFL with 1:50 to go

Like the week before?

 

Sorry but two awful games back to back offensively against league bottom dwellers and a 1-1 record in those games are gonna hurt an MVP case.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint: If Josh Allen had turned it over only THREE times against the Jets, or hadn't thrown a pick his first play from scrimmage against the Pats, he would probably be the MVP favorite right now.

 

It's a W/L stat primarily, and unfortunately QB's who turn it over a lot turn some easy wins into losses.

Sort of a false equivalency 

 

Jets defense is legit and can be expected to make opposing QBs struggle

 

Patriots offense is bad, expecting your defense to not give up a game winning TD drive is pretty reasonable 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Sort of a false equivalency 

 

Jets defense is legit and can be expected to make opposing QBs struggle

 

Patriots offense is bad, expecting your defense to not give up a game winning TD drive is pretty reasonable 

Counterpoint, is the Pats defense bad?  They are 24th in points allowed.

 

Feel like we could expect more than 10 points scored with 5 minutes left in the game. ESPECIALLY from an MVP.

 

Some great QB's only have 3 TO's against the Jets and beat them.  Crazy.

Edited October 30, 2023 by FireChans

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Like the week before?

 

Sorry but two awful games back to back offensively against league bottom dwellers and a 1-1 record in those games are gonna hurt an MVP case.

So if the defence doesn’t make Mac jones look like drew brees with a mix of clutch Tom Brady, are we saying Josh sucked that game or that he had back to back TDs with one of those being the game winning TD drive?

 

That^ would look very good on the MVP resume, just saying 🤷‍♂️

[GoBills808]

Just now, FireChans said:

Counterpoint, is the Pats defense bad?  They are 24th in points allowed.

 

Feel like we could expect more than 10 points scored with 5 minutes left in the game. ESPECIALLY from an MVP.

Allen and the offense scored 25 on Patriots

 

😂😂I don't know why it's so difficult to admit he's easily the best QB in the league rn

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

So if the defence doesn’t make Mac jones look like drew brees with a mix of clutch Tom Brady, are we saying Josh sucked that game or that he had back to back TDs with one of those being the game winning TD drive?

 

That^ would look very good on the MVP resume, just saying 🤷‍♂️

I'm saying that Josh/the offense sucked that game, regardless if the defense bailed him out for the second week in a row or not.

 

If the Chiefs beat the Broncos on a pick six today, would we say Mahomes did enough to win and it looks good on a MVP resume?

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint: If Josh Allen had turned it over only THREE times against the Jets, or hadn't thrown a pick his first play from scrimmage against the Pats, he would probably be the MVP favorite right now.

 

That's not a counterpoint lol... it's an entirely different point. I don't disagree either, but like I said none of the QBs in the competition have played clean football and all of them have been at least partially responsible for their losses.

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Allen and the offense scored 25 on Patriots

 

😂😂I don't know why it's so difficult to admit he's easily the best QB in the league rn

It's a week to week league. Last week, Josh couldn't score against the Pats and Mahomes was tossing 4 TD's against his division rival (with an actual good QB) and blowing their doors off.

 

Josh is one of the best QB's in the NFL.  But, obviously, on the Bills boards, every loss, including the ones where he's dog**** for 55 minutes, aren't his fault.  That's cool.  The NFL media and the people who vote for MVP don't believe that. Sucks, but its the truth.

 

Josh is two TO's from potentially being 7-1 and in the driver seat for MVP and the #1 seed. Those are facts.

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I'm saying that Josh/the offense sucked that game, regardless if the defense bailed him out for the second week in a row or not.

 

If the Chiefs beat the Broncos on a pick six today, would we say Mahomes did enough to win and it looks good on a MVP resume?

That’s literally apples to oranges and doesn’t line up with my point at all, respectfully.

 

It was a division opponent on the road, and while the offence wasn’t good, Josh came Up clutch when it mattered the most.

 

elite QBs not playing their A game on the road against division opponents is pretty common.

 

(Mahomes vs Denver today, Lamar against pitts, burrow vs Cleveland) The list goes on

 

I feel sometimes we just look at it from a “bills lense”

Edited October 30, 2023 by BillsFan130

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's not a counterpoint lol... it's an entirely different point. I don't disagree either, but like I said none of the QBs in the competition have played clean football and all of them have been at least partially responsible for their losses.

Absolutely. They have only been partially responsible for their losses less, because they've lost less.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

It's a week to week league. Last week, Josh couldn't score against the Pats and Mahomes was tossing 4 TD's against his division rival (with an actual good QB) and blowing their doors off.

 

Josh is one of the best QB's in the NFL.  But, obviously, on the Bills boards, every loss, including the ones where he's dog**** for 55 minutes, aren't his fault.  That's cool.  The NFL media and the people who vote for MVP don't believe that. Sucks, but its the truth.

 

Josh is two TO's from potentially being 7-1 and in the driver seat for MVP and the #1 seed. Those are facts.

Bro come over here where Allen is the best QB in football it's more fun I promise

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I'm saying that Josh/the offense sucked that game, regardless if the defense bailed him out for the second week in a row or not.

 

If the Chiefs beat the Broncos on a pick six today, would we say Mahomes did enough to win and it looks good on a MVP resume?

The media / talking heads would be inclined to overlook it , yes. But hey, we get it - you’re not that fond of Allen and that’s ok. 

[FireChans]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

That’s literally apples to oranges and doesn’t line up with my point at all, respectfully.

 

It was a division opponent on the road, and while the offence wasn’t good, Josh came Up clutch when it mattered the most.

 

elite QBs not playing their A game on the road against division opponents is pretty common.

 

(Mahomes vs Denver today, Lamar against pitts, burrow vs Cleveland) The list goes on

 

I feel sometimes we just look at it from a “bills lense”

Yep, Mahomes had a bad loss today. Had a bad loss to Detroit too. Josh has 3 bad losses.

 

3 is more than 2.

 

The award usually goes to the QB with a combo of top numbers and top or close to top record. Gotta get both if you want to win it.

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Bro come over here where Allen is the best QB in football it's more fun I promise

 

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

The media / talking heads would be inclined to overlook it , yes. But hey, we get it - you’re not that fond of Allen and that’s ok. 

I love Josh Allen. I realize it's like picking nits because he's obviously awesome and he's, at least, the second best QB in football. But when he makes bad plays that keep him at "the second best QB in football," it's very frustrating.

 

There's nothing I would love more than Patrick Mahomes to throw 35 picks and lose every game, and Josh to throw for 50 TD's and 8 picks. But until that happens, I'm gonna have to call it like I see it.

[BillsFan130]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yep, Mahomes had a bad loss today. Had a bad loss to Detroit too. Josh has 3 bad losses.

 

3 is more than 2.

 

The award usually goes to the QB with a combo of top numbers and top or close to top record. Gotta get both if you want to win it.

So we are just measuring QBs success on losses?

 

Once again, he had the game winning drive against NE.

 

But the defence could not slow down the worst offence in the NFL.

 

Mahomes was also bad in multiple wins this year, including scoring just 17 points a few weeks ago against Denver.

 

And Mahomes was absolutely awful against the jets a few weeks ago
 

It’s a team game sir

Edited October 30, 2023 by BillsFan130