Frazier and/or his System hurt player development

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

🙄

[Since1981]

McD adds an element this year of uncertainty that we didn’t see with Frazier. In 2022, you can’t just line up and not use some form of uncertainty

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, Maine-iac said:

Weird…but whatever…

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, MPT said:

 

Fangio doesn't have the luxury of all pros at nearly every position either. Holland is about the only player in the secondary worth accounting for.

They have 0 coverage linebackers too…the dolphins really built their defense completely backwards as far as matching up with buffalo goes it’s really bizarre.  They’re loaded up with good pass rushers but josh buys himself enough time to pick on their dbs/linebackers even when his OL is bad but they seem pretty good this year which makes it worse for Miami 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Bferra13]

Frazier + Edmonds = no bueno. Addition by subtraction.

[Maine-iac]

Just now, whorlnut said:

Weird…but whatever…

Let's just make pointless responses that aren't on subject all night and our post counts will be amazing!

[streetkings01]

Frazier’s defense only worked on offenses with below average QBs or Lamar Jackson lol

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

Frazier was a very good coordinator.

 

McDermott is simply better.

likely true. 
 

that said, Frazier had great games and months too. It’ll be interesting to see McD settle on long term as he puts tendencies back on tape.

 

my suspicion is very good still but maybe some more ups and downs like any coordinator has

[TheBrownBear]

Or maybe Frazier developed these guys and McDermott is now reaping the benefits?

 

Just saying - we consistently had a top-3 defense under Frazier.  I'm not about to sh*t on the dude, because McD has had a nice four game run.  

[RunTheBall]

Stop with the “McD should have fired Frazier” revisionist history. I am VERY happy Frazier is gone and McD is calling the plays now, you can see the difference. But, it’s ridiculous to think that McBeane was going to get rid of a very highly respected defensive coach who was fielding a top 4 D every season. McBeane are not that type of ruthless guys, they are loyal to a fault but that has more positives than negatives in the locker room and on the recruitment trail. 

 

Besides Frazier being gone, the loss of Edmunds right now looks like addition by subtraction. 90% of this board were killing McBeane about the MLB position and Bernard has been a revelation. Our coaches saw that, most of us did not. Some of you guys who have been bashing this coaching staff non stop since 13 seconds need to STFU and appreciate that players, coaches and GMs can and do get better within a culture of growth which McD has fostered since day 1 and has always preached.

 

[Meatloaf63]

4 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

Stop with the “McD should have fired Frazier” revisionist history. I am VERY happy Frazier is gone and McD is calling the plays now, you can see the difference. But, it’s ridiculous to think that McBeane was going to get rid of a very highly respected defensive coach who was fielding a top 4 D every season. McBeane are not that type of ruthless guys, they are loyal to a fault but that has more positives than negatives in the locker room and on the recruitment trail. 

 

Besides Frazier being gone, the loss of Edmunds right now looks like addition by subtraction. 90% of this board were killing McBeane about the MLB position and Bernard has been a revelation. Our coaches saw that, most of us did not. Some of you guys who have been bashing this coaching staff non stop since 13 seconds need to STFU and appreciate that players, coaches and GMs can and do get better within a culture of growth which McD has fostered since day 1 and has always preached.

 

Go back and watch the Cincinnati playoff game and tell everyone who complained that Frazier wasn’t a problem against good QB’s. Look in the mirror, maybe that person needs to STFU. Our defense performed great against sub par Qb’s but consistently underperformed against top performers especially in the playoffs. Something needed to change, and thankfully it did. 

[mrags]

I was very rough on the idea of McD taking over as DC and nothing really changing. I’ll admit I was wrong. The defense has really looked good and it has been a pleasure. 
 

however, this brings me to the next question. WHY…. Did it take McD so long to get rid of Frazier. It’s obvious then that he was the issue with 13 seconds and more. So why wasn’t he given the boot sooner. It’s a fail on McD imo 

[RunTheBall]

Just now, Meatloaf63 said:

Go back and watch the Cincinnati playoff game and tell everyone who complained that Frazier wasn’t a problem against good QB’s. Look in the mirror, maybe that person needs to STFU. Our defense performed great against sub par Qb’s but consistently underperformed against top performers especially in the playoffs. Something needed to change, and thankfully it did. 

No question Frazier was a big problem in that game, and I said I’m glad he “took a year off”. My point, that you clearly missed, was that there was no way McBeane was going to get rid of Frazier after 13 seconds given the high regard they had for him and the fact that statistically the defense was very very good. We all saw the weaknesses, and I bet that if McD was calling the D there probably would have been a different outcome. But, given the culture and loyalty McBeane have that just wasn’t going to happen. Plus, I think Edmunds in the middle was a bigger problem than I realized given that both Mahomes and Burrow abused him regularly.

[RunTheBall]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

I was very rough on the idea of McD taking over as DC and nothing really changing. I’ll admit I was wrong. The defense has really looked good and it has been a pleasure. 
 

however, this brings me to the next question. WHY…. Did it take McD so long to get rid of Frazier. It’s obvious then that he was the issue with 13 seconds and more. So why wasn’t he given the boot sooner. It’s a fail on McD imo 

Frazier was a very highly respected coach with statistically top 3 defenses every year. Can you imagine the sht-storm this team would have endured had they fired a guy with those stats? McBeane are loyal guys who are big on doing things the right way. They took the high road and let Frazier depart on his own terms because they respected him so much. It’s always easy in retrospect to say “we should have done X” but that’s just not how McBeane operate. 

[RochesterLifer]

3 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

Is he  the NFL’s version of Ralph Krueger?

Yes, and McDermott is Donnie Meatballs for defensive player improvement.

[Meatloaf63]

1 minute ago, RunTheBall said:

No question Frazier was a big problem in that game, and I said I’m glad he “took a year off”. My point, that you clearly missed, was that there was no way McBeane was going to get rid of Frazier after 13 seconds given the high regard they had for him and the fact that statistically the defense was very very good. We all saw the weaknesses, and I bet that if McD was calling the D there probably would have been a different outcome. But, given the culture and loyalty McBeane have that just wasn’t going to happen. Plus, I think Edmunds in the middle was a bigger problem than I realized given that both Mahomes and Burrow abused him regularly.

Getting rid of Frazier would have been Savage, but it would have been the right thing to do. That’s a weakness on McDermott.  Although injuries were as much as an issue as defensive strategy and play calling last year. That defense was considered one of the most basic to play against and it showed against good performing teams and its inability to get off the field especially in long 3rd down situations. That issue was around for years dating back to the playoff loss against Houston. People should have been complaining for a long time. It took too long to make a change, the goal is not to be regular season champs, it is after all the superbowl.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

Just stop with this stuff. 
 

next week, if they were to lose, you’d be praising Frazier and starting posts about McD. 

I don’t think you’re going to graduate from preschool.   

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, mrags said:

I was very rough on the idea of McD taking over as DC and nothing really changing. I’ll admit I was wrong. The defense has really looked good and it has been a pleasure. 
 

however, this brings me to the next question. WHY…. Did it take McD so long to get rid of Frazier. It’s obvious then that he was the issue with 13 seconds and more. So why wasn’t he given the boot sooner. It’s a fail on McD imo 

Because Frazier was a good Dc.  Not elite like McD.  
 

He was also learning the nuances of being an nfl HC.  
 

Once he felt that he felt comfortable, he took the reigns.

 

jmo

[mrags]

14 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

Frazier was a very highly respected coach with statistically top 3 defenses every year. Can you imagine the sht-storm this team would have endured had they fired a guy with those stats? McBeane are loyal guys who are big on doing things the right way. They took the high road and let Frazier depart on his own terms because they respected him so much. It’s always easy in retrospect to say “we should have done X” but that’s just not how McBeane operate. 

if you actually think they let Frazier “depart on his own terms” then I guess we have nothing to talk about here. I don’t believe that crap for one minute. 

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Because Frazier was a good Dc.  Not elite like McD.  
 

He was also learning the nuances of being an nfl HC.  
 

Once he felt that he felt comfortable, he took the reigns.

 

jmo

I think Frazier was good. But had serious flaws. Like his lack of aggressiveness like always. He would consistently go into a prevent shell any chance he could. It cost us games. It’s something he’s always done. Dating back to the days he was a HC as well. Would get way to conservative. 

[RunTheBall]

42 minutes ago, mrags said:

if you actually think they let Frazier “depart on his own terms” then I guess we have nothing to talk about here. I don’t believe that crap for one minute. 

I think Frazier was good. But had serious flaws. Like his lack of aggressiveness like always. He would consistently go into a prevent shell any chance he could. It cost us games. It’s something he’s always done. Dating back to the days he was a HC as well. Would get way to conservative. 

That’s why it was in quotes. Of course they were getting rid of him but McBeane are 2 classy guys so they did it in a way that Frazier saved face and could keep the hope of getting another job in the future alive. Personally I don’t think Frazier will coach again and I really appreciate the way McBeane handled it because as much as I wanted Frazier gone I respect the man.

Edited October 2, 2023 by RunTheBall