Solar Panels

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Who has taken the jump?  I've heard great success stories with people selling power back to the grid.  

And I've heard this:https://time.com/6317339/rooftop-solar-power-failure/

 

A guy who I trust quoted me around $20000 for a field of panels to run a generator.   Wouldn't power the entire house.  Not looking likely for me now but I'm interested in opinions/experiences.

[BringBackFergy]

It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

28 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. 

I think we'll see better tech sometime but yeah.....I don't think it's there.

[sherpa]

The latest developments may have a huge impact on efficiency. Using a compound called perovskite, which allows capture of more of the light spectrum, companies are reporting 30% or more efficiency. It was thought that 29% was about the limit, and most are about 23. 

Still some testing required to test durability of these panels, as they seem to have a shorter lifespan, but the development is quite promising.

Could be available in a couple years.

[WhoTom]

9 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. 

 

Solar panels are warrantied for 20 years and almost always last much longer. After 20 years, they lose about 10% of their generating capacity, but they still generate electricity. Older panels from utility-scale farms are often resold at a discount and replaced with new panels. And there are significant efforts to make the newer panels recyclable. No power company is going to abandon their investment and leave a solar array to rot.

 

As for pollution, the carbon payback period for solar panels is around 2-4 years, depending on the power source they're replacing, and the energy payback period is 1-3 years depending on the amount of sunlight they get.

 

And yes, we know they don't produce much on cloudy days (although they do produce some), but they're really good on sunny days when people are running their AC. And energy storage smooths out the "duck curve" - the gap between supply and demand.

 

Whether it's worth it to put them on your house really depends. A lot of people go with a power purchase agreement (PPA), where the company installs the equipment at no cost to the consumer, and the consumer pays the company only for the power that the array generates. That's a win-win for the consumer, as there's no initial investment and they save some money on their energy bills. And it's a win-win for the company because they own the equipment, so they get the tax credit and other incentives, and they get a steady stream of income by selling the power to the consumer.

 

To purchase a system, the payback period is 5-15 years, depending on the regional electricity rate. Here in the Midwest, where our power is mainly nuclear and wind, our electric rate is dirt cheap; the payback period for us would be about 15 years. On the other hand, a friend who lives in NH pays around $0.23/kWh, so for him, a solar array would pay for itself in around 5 years.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

Solar panels are warrantied for 20 years and almost always last much longer. After 20 years, they lose about 10% of their generating capacity, but they still generate electricity. Older panels from utility-scale farms are often resold at a discount and replaced with new panels. And there are significant efforts to make the newer panels recyclable. No power company is going to abandon their investment and leave a solar array to rot.

 

As for pollution, the carbon payback period for solar panels is around 2-4 years, depending on the power source they're replacing, and the energy payback period is 1-3 years depending on the amount of sunlight they get.

 

And yes, we know they don't produce much on cloudy days (although they do produce some), but they're really good on sunny days when people are running their AC. And energy storage smooths out the "duck curve" - the gap between supply and demand.

 

Whether it's worth it to put them on your house really depends. A lot of people go with a power purchase agreement (PPA), where the company installs the equipment at no cost to the consumer, and the consumer pays the company only for the power that the array generates. That's a win-win for the consumer, as there's no initial investment and they save some money on their energy bills. And it's a win-win for the company because they own the equipment, so they get the tax credit and other incentives, and they get a steady stream of income by selling the power to the consumer.

 

To purchase a system, the payback period is 5-15 years, depending on the regional electricity rate. Here in the Midwest, where our power is mainly nuclear and wind, our electric rate is dirt cheap; the payback period for us would be about 15 years. On the other hand, a friend who lives in NH pays around $0.23/kWh, so for him, a solar array would pay for itself in around 5 years.

 

 

Thank you.  obviously lots of knowledge.  Do you think my project makes sense?  I guess I could sell the electricity if not in use.  We live in the woods but the array would be on an open hillside (unfortunately N facing).  Would run a line up to the house.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[Mr Info]

16 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Who has taken the jump?  I've heard great success stories with people selling power back to the grid.  

And I've heard this:https://time.com/6317339/rooftop-solar-power-failure/

 

A guy who I trust quoted me around $20000 for a field of panels to run a generator.   Wouldn't power the entire house.  Not looking likely for me now but I'm interested in opinions/experiences.

Not sure where you live but state tax credit may be available for solar panel installation. They were for me (VA).

[GoBills808]

they work great

 

helps to live where theres a lot of sun

[Joe Ferguson forever]

42 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

Not sure where you live but state tax credit may be available for solar panel installation. They were for me (VA).

yup.  can take credit for 2 or 3 years after installation.  So I think with all the credits brings it down to $14000.  Is this cost about right in you experience?  Love the idea of a  generator but already have a propane tank and it's way cheaper in the short run, to use that to power one.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[ExiledInIllinois]

14 hours ago, mead107 said:

Don’t work on cloudy and snowy days. 
 

Just get bigger batteries to store it in when it is sunny.

And snow reflects the most light, more than sand. Just get out there and clear the panel.  Winter can be a very sunny season in some parts.

[GoBills808]

We grew up in a house where the poles didn't run far enough so our house was 100% PV 

 

Generator was a must for bad weather (we had propane) and couldn't run many of the appliances to save electricity, batteries for storage when it's very sunny...if you have a good relationship we the guy who services them (ours was our neighbor) 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

We grew up in a house where the poles didn't run far enough so our house was 100% PV 

 

Generator was a must for bad weather (we had propane) and couldn't run many of the appliances to save electricity, batteries for storage when it's very sunny...if you have a good relationship we the guy who services them (ours was our neighbor) 

My father had a solar panel put on the house back in 1980s. To just boost extra heat in winter. Pretty primitive.  YET... Still working today.  Takes edge off heating bill.

[Augie]

41 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

they work great

 

helps to live where theres a lot of sun

 

How old are they? How long are they expected to last? 

 

There was an area in Venice, FL where somebody was very successful selling solar panels many decades ago. Virtually zero were actually functioning when I was working that area. I’m sure each generation has gotten better and better, but those old ones were more likely to make your roof leak than help your utility bills. 

 

I hope they keep improving the technology because it does seem like a wasted opportunity. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

How old are they? How long are they expected to last? 

 

There was an area in Venice, FL where somebody was very successful selling solar panels many decades ago. Virtually zero were actually functioning when I was working that area. I’m sure each generation has gotten better and better, but those old ones were more likely to make your roof leak than help your utility bills. 

 

I hope they keep improving the technology because it does seem like a wasted opportunity. 

This was 30years ago, the panel tech has definitely improved but it's not magic or anything, it worked then and it works now

Also we had dedicated panels in the backyard on a moveable array in addition to the hot water panels on the roof

[WhoTom]

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

Thank you.  obviously lots of knowledge.  Do you think my project makes sense?  I guess I could sell the electricity if not in use.  We live in the woods but the array would be on an open hillside (unfortunately N facing).  Would run a line up to the house.

 

I wrote this for my wife's blog a few years ago. It may answer some of your questions.

 

https://www.theselfsufficienthomeacre.com/2014/09/solar-electricity-at-home.html

 

(I wrote it in 2014 and updated it last year.)

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by WhoTom

[Joe Ferguson forever]

29 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

I wrote this for my wife's blog a few years ago. It may answer some of your questions.

 

https://www.theselfsufficienthomeacre.com/2014/09/solar-electricity-at-home.html

excellent.  10 years would be fine for recoup.  30 not so much cuz I doubt will be in this house (or maybe anywhere on earth).  Do panels increase a homes value?  I'm also thinking those payback periods are for panels that would be used continuously as a power source.  There's a limit to storage, correct?  I will say the contractor, I guy I've known for years, wasn't greatly   surprised when I told him "I'll think about it.  Thanks."

Edited September 30, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[WhoTom]

22 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

excellent.  10 years would be fine for recoup.  30 not so much cuz I doubt will be in this house (or maybe anywhere on earth).  Do panels increase a homes value?  I'm also thinking those payback periods are for panels that would be used continuously as a power source.  There's a limit to storage, correct?  I will say the contractor, I guy I've known for years, wasn't greatly   surprised when I told him "I'll think about it.  Thanks."

 

Solar's impact on a home's value depends on the buyer's perception. In general, though, it does increase the resale value.

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/reviews/solar/do-solar-panels-increase-home-value

 

The payback period is based on local conditions.

 

As for the limit on storage, the only limit is how much you can afford.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I guess there is this. Kinda like at the lock & dam when we switched to LEDs from vapor light... The savings were supposed to be astronomical! Yet... It seems like those bulbs are burning out faster than expected.  NOTE: We did retrofit them into 60 year old light standards, etc...

 

https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power

 

Summary.   

Solar energy is a rapidly growing market, which should be good news for the environment. Unfortunately there’s a catch. The replacement rate of solar panels is faster than expected and given the current very high recycling costs, there’s a real danger that all used panels will go straight to landfill (along with equally hard-to-recycle wind turbines). Regulators and industry players need to start improving the economics and scale of recycling capabilities before the avalanche of solar panels hits.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by ExiledInIllinois

[WhoTom]

12 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Summary.   

Solar energy is a rapidly growing market, which should be good news for the environment. Unfortunately there’s a catch. The replacement rate of solar panels is faster than expected and given the current very high recycling costs, there’s a real danger that all used panels will go straight to landfill (along with equally hard-to-recycle wind turbines). Regulators and industry players need to start improving the economics and scale of recycling capabilities before the avalanche of solar panels hits.

 

That's a problem, no doubt, but one that's being addressed in a multitude of ways. I covered the topic a few years ago:

 

https://www.engineering.com/story/closing-the-loop-on-solar-panel-recycling

 

[Saxum]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:32 PM, BringBackFergy said:

It looks like crap in our area. Farmers selling 20-50 acres and there’s rows and rows of solar panels that will deteriorate over 10 years, be abandoned by the installation companies, pollute our land, with little benefit to the community. But hey…the company that installed them was given millions in benefits. Who cares where they leave the junk when it’s obsolete. 

 

Maybe county needs to require a deposit like some do with bottles.