The Bills biggest problem on offense remains unchanged

[Einstein's Dog]

46 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Gotcha. Considering the two TE sets in the offense this year I don't see us trading for another WR especially when Davis remains on the roster. Gonna ride with what we have. 

To me, Kincaid is a developing piece to take over the Beasley role.  Getting another WR would put Gabe back into his rightful role as WR3, like when we had Smoke Brown.  Diggs/Brown/Beas (backup Gabe) were good times.  A Diggs/Evans/Kincaid (backup Gabe) trio would work well IMO.

 

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The premise here is that the Bills offense is being ‘handicapped’ by needing to help out Brown in pass protection. So…I went to the NFL league-wide receiving stats to see if this would show up. It doesn’t. The Bills have more receivers in the Top 100 than most if not all of the other contenders. For example, the Chiefs don’t have a single receiver in the Top 50. Kincaid has as many receptions as Kelce, who is their top target. Even with the Dolphins hanging 70 points last week, they only have Hill in the Top 50. Once again, it’s easy to be critical of our Bills, but the other 31 teams are far from perfection across the entirety of their rosters.

I agree with this line of thought.  Kincaid is top half of the league in receptions for his position and so is Cook.  We are getting more production out of non WR than ever.  I dont see how were "handicapped."  Were number two scoring offense again yet we are "crippled" by our OL or last years OL was a "disaster."  Sorta dont understand the logic of saying OL is important (maybe posters are saying OL doesnt matter with JA17 at QB) but our OL is a disaster.  The data doesnt support those two things being true.  

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I apologize. I was primarily looking for the teams we know are elite (KC, MIA, CIN). Yes, there are teams with two; for example the Texans, but I don’t think anyone believes they’ll be contenders this year. 

 

There is nothing to apologize for bro. I didn't mean my post that way.  I just tired so I think and write like garbage.

[SoCal Deek]

Another way to look at this is that Josh Allen is FOURTH in the NFL in number of completions behind only Cousins, Herbert and yes….Mac Jones. So Josh is clearly completing passes to somebody! Not sure I see much of a ‘handicap’ there. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[gobills404]

19 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I just watched the Bills 3 RBs and 2 TEs combine for a grand total of about 30yrds receiving (or about 6 yrds per player) because they're busy spending half the game playing RT. It's a problem just about every week, regardless of whether they win.

By half the game you mean 7 snaps? Cause that’s how many times Spencer Brown got help on a passing play.

[Simon]

33 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

By half the game you mean 7 snaps? Cause that’s how many times Spencer Brown got help on a passing play.

 

Not disbelieving you but I'm having a hard time buying that because it was probably at least twice that number last week, and I specifically saw multiple instances of LMurray on the LOS engaging the Washington DE while Spencer was setting up in pass pro.

Although I do admit to being preoccupied Sunday and being tuned out of the game during long stretches so you could be correct.

 

[Augie]

Should we be glad we didn’t spring a NEW biggest problem?   😋

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

Should we be glad we didn’t spring a NEW biggest problem?   😋

 

Give it a minute..... 

19 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I’ll give you that it’s definitely a hinderence. It isn’t my most concerning thought about the offense.

 

Despite their recent perceived success, I don’t thjnj they have the horses at WR2/3 and TE to win 1v1 consistently in a way that would benefit Allen, taking pressure of his plate by structuring more quick game. 
 

As discussed in numerous other threads, this is not a Dorsey nor Allen strength. I don’t think ot necessarily want it to be. I do however wish they had the option if they needed to. 

 

I guess I'm sort of going on priorities, i.e. if you can't protect your QB, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference who he's throwing to.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, gobills404 said:

By half the game you mean 7 snaps? Cause that’s how many times Spencer Brown got help on a passing play.

 

FWIW, and I didn't watch all-22 or do my own scoring, @Bocephuz has been doing a breakdown of pass protection, and said "1/3 of the pass plays".

There were 32 pass attempts plus at least one scramble on busted protection, so that would mean ~11

 

 

 

[Dukestreetking]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes.  Inherent in that question would be a T who would be an improvement over Brown. Sorry that escaped you.

 

omf, you're getting especially salty in, well, your old(er) age!

 

[just messing with you brother]

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

omf, you're getting especially salty in, well, your old(er) age!

 

[just messing with you brother]

Yeah, I should dial it back a bit. Thanks for pulling me back in.

 

I just find it interesting that after two blowout wins some still look for boogeymen, and fixate on a player or two.  I am certainly not saying Spencer Brown is an All Pro or anything, but I have been trying to pay attention to him specifically and to me he just doesn’t look as bad as many are saying.  Can he be better?  Sure, in pass protection especially.  But he’s not a train wreck so why keep referring to him as such?

[gobills404]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

FWIW, and I didn't watch all-22 or do my own scoring, @Bocephuz has been doing a breakdown of pass protection, and said "1/3 of the pass plays".

There were 32 pass attempts plus at least one scramble on busted protection, so that would mean ~11

 

 

 

They said “about 1/3” which tells me they weren’t keeping an exact count, which is fine. I watched the condensed version of all the Bills possessions specifically watching Brown on very play. Even if they’re right and I’m wrong, Brown was still blocking a very good DE without any help on the majority of passing downs and held up well (0 sacks, 1 QB hit).

Edited September 27, 2023 by gobills404

[somnus00]

21 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Isn’t this why the team has a highly paid coaching staff? They better get to work and scheme up an offense that accounts for Brown’s shortcomings. And remember….No team has 22 Pro Bowlers on their starting roster. 

I'd agree with this. We have a very highly regarded OL coach in Kromer. And Brown has absolutely elite size and athleticism. If his feet are slow, it's likely a mental issue rather than a physical one (thinking instead of playing).

[ProcessTruster]

I actually love how the Bills are developing their own:  this board was running Bernard out of town and lookie lookie, Babich turned him into this; Ed Oliver,this board had him traded b4 last season was even over, and lookie lookie, McBeanes knew the kid better then any of us and he is dominating;  Spencer Brown lost last season completely and had his first NFL off season this past spring.   

 

Not sure what you're looking at , Mr Moderator, but I was 2 rows from the field last Sunday and Spencer Brown more than held his own.   He was on an island with 1st rounder DLs plenty and he looked a lot better than he looked last year.  

[1st&ten]

Brown is a tall man with previous back problems, If it flares up again you might see Van Demark or Gouraige moving into the RT spot.

[Dopey]

21 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I can understand where you're coming from.  For me, when I saw that replay, I was sick.  This is our guy who has our WR2 role and that was the route he ran?  There are only so many plays he is out there and he has to know they are going to review each one.

 

Josh doesn't need to be excused, his job is nowhere near in jeopardy.  A borderline WR2, in what I hope is a trial run, cannot be doing these things.  IMO we needed him to improve and he hasn't.

Get over Gabe already. Late 4th round pick making less than $ 1 million per season. You can’t get his production at that price just anywhere. He probably won’t be back next season, but he’s really important to this year’s team. We drafted him and played him. Is he good enough for a second contract? That’s up to Beane. He’s going to make way more positive plays than negative. Way more. Of course one drop and this board goes crazy. I’m not surprised at a drop by him,  it’s expected. But if he goes down to injury this year, it would really hurt our offense. Fact. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Brown has been good enough....which is a massive step forward.  Add that in with solid upgrades at LG and RG...the OL actually looks like a top 10-12 unit 

IMO the problem on offense right now is not enough speed and lack of playmakers.

Harty looks slower and less elusive than I had expected 

Hopefully Kincaid will be given more opportunities because the advanced stats show he has elite separation on routes.  Throw him the ball. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Einstein's Dog]

18 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Get over Gabe already. Late 4th round pick making less than $ 1 million per season. You can’t get his production at that price just anywhere. He probably won’t be back next season, but he’s really important to this year’s team. We drafted him and played him. Is he good enough for a second contract? That’s up to Beane. He’s going to make way more positive plays than negative. Way more. Of course one drop and this board goes crazy. I’m not surprised at a drop by him,  it’s expected. But if he goes down to injury this year, it would really hurt our offense. Fact. 

I'm not looking for value in WR2, I'm looking for a very good player.  I'm also not saying we get rid of Gabe, keep him he would be good insurance if the WR2 we acquire gets injured.  If we had M Evans instead of Gabe for the Jets game that would have been a victory.  Fact.

 

With the past rumors of the FO investigating OBJ and Dhop it has felt like Gabe has been on a trial run.  IMO, Gabe is failing.  I would love to see the FO aggressively go after a WR2 with an in-season trade.  IMO, that is the biggest, most effective, move they could make for this season.