Airseven Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 There’s been a clear drop-off from Daboll to Dorsey. He was creative. It didn’t always work, but I’d take it again at this point. 1 2 Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 Listened to Joe Marino's podcast yesterday and he posed a pretty interesting perspective on the Daboll thing. The narrative is that Brian Daboll made Josh Allen. Marino posits that maybe it's the other way around and it's Josh Allen who made Daboll. Part of the argument is the relatively steady offensive production in being one of the top NFL offenses even after Daboll left and Daboll's Giants being one of the bottom half NFL offenses. I think it's a bit of an oversimplification, but I also think the folks (Colin Cowherd) who say Brian Daboll was the brilliant coordinator who reined in Josh Allen is an oversimplification. And maybe it's absolutely false, considering the amount of time Josh spent with Jordan Palmer working on his game for so many offseasons. 1 Quote
Gregg Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 The Giants are in a must win game this Monday vs Seattle. After that they play at Miami and at Buffalo. They fall to 1-3 that could quickly go to 1-5. Have to think they will be huge underdogs vs the Fins and Bills. Quote
Mango Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 I am rooting for Dorsey to succeed. I think he is growing. To me Daboll and Dorsey are two sides of the same coin. Right now I will take the guy who is still flexible and growing. That said, if the Bills are in the market for a new OC I would keep an eye on the McVay situation in LA over the next season or two. Sure they won a SB. Yes they mortgaged their future to do it. But I think fans are growing sour. Quote
SectionC3 Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Listened to Joe Marino's podcast yesterday and he posed a pretty interesting perspective on the Daboll thing. The narrative is that Brian Daboll made Josh Allen. Marino posits that maybe it's the other way around and it's Josh Allen who made Daboll. Part of the argument is the relatively steady offensive production in being one of the top NFL offenses even after Daboll left and Daboll's Giants being one of the bottom half NFL offenses. I think it's a bit of an oversimplification, but I also think the folks (Colin Cowherd) who say Brian Daboll was the brilliant coordinator who reined in Josh Allen is an oversimplification. And maybe it's absolutely false, considering the amount of time Josh spent with Jordan Palmer working on his game for so many offseasons. I think they made each other. Daboll put Josh in a position to succeed. Josh bailed Daboll out here and there by pulling something shiny out of his posterior. As far as Daboll goes, I’m pulling for him. All the way. He’s one of us. But that comment from Mara over the winter about not going from hero to zero (I’m paraphrasing) and enjoying the Rangers games a little too much (another paraphrase) perked my ears. I think he gets another year even if this year is a disaster, in part because he’s an excellent coach and in part because the Giants probably don’t want to cycle through coaches every two years. But . . . Stranger things have happened. Edited September 27, 2023 by SectionC3 Quote
gonzo1105 Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Listened to Joe Marino's podcast yesterday and he posed a pretty interesting perspective on the Daboll thing. The narrative is that Brian Daboll made Josh Allen. Marino posits that maybe it's the other way around and it's Josh Allen who made Daboll. Part of the argument is the relatively steady offensive production in being one of the top NFL offenses even after Daboll left and Daboll's Giants being one of the bottom half NFL offenses. I think it's a bit of an oversimplification, but I also think the folks (Colin Cowherd) who say Brian Daboll was the brilliant coordinator who reined in Josh Allen is an oversimplification. And maybe it's absolutely false, considering the amount of time Josh spent with Jordan Palmer working on his game for so many offseasons. I believe 95% of the time, Quarterbacks make the coordinator/head coach and not the other way around. There are examples of Head Coaches who had mediocre play get their teams deep in the playoffs and/or Super Bowls but usually if you have mediocre QB play you better have absolutely dominate defense. Just look at Adam Gase(Peyton Manning), Josh McDaniel's(Tom Brady), Nathaniel Hackett(Aaron Rodgers) as recent examples of guys who's careers and reps were made off of QB's who could have me as their coach and succeed. Josh Allen is going to succeed at a high level no matter who the coordinator is. The only example of recent successes of guys who look better than they are due to their coach is the team we are playing this week. Quote
Mango Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: I think they made each other. Daboll put Josh in a position to succeed. Josh bailed Daboll out here and there by pulling something shiny out of his posterior. As far as Daboll goes, I’m pulling for him. All the way. He’s one of us. But that comment from Mara over the winter about not going from hero to zero (I’m paraphrasing) and enjoying the Rangers games a little too much (another paraphrase) perked my ears. I think he gets another year even if this year is a disaster, in part because he’s an excellent coach and in part because the Giants probably don’t want to cycle through coaches every two years. But . . . Stranger things have happened. I am sorry, people want to bring in this guy who traded a Sabres jersey for a Rangers vest back into our organization? I don't think so. Have some self respect my guy. We have a QB put hot sauce and blue cheese in his Pepsi, and some "fans" want to pair him with a guy who turned his back on his hometown hockey team. Who is the OC for Canisius HS. Go get that guy. Quote
somnus00 Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 On 9/25/2023 at 4:54 PM, JayBaller10 said: All I know is McD called McDaniel’s scheme “revolutionary” in the presser today. He’s scheming all sorts of creative ways to get guys the ball, a lot of misdirection, sleight of hand, magical stuff. No one is calling the Bills offense revolutionary or innovative. I think they could be so much more and I’m not a Dorsey hater. BUT it is extremely tough finding that guy who is a schematic genius. Panthers thought Joe Brady was one, now he’s in Buffalo as a QB’s coach after his failure. Agreed. Dorsey is fine. A competent coordinator; one whom no one will confuse for an innovative OC. But how many innovators are out there? Reid, McDaniel, Shanahan? The last 2 are stacked elite playmakers as chess pieces. Maybe add Siriani to this short list. Point being, which creative offensive mind do we hypothetically turn to with Dorsey gone. Believe me, I'd love one. This isn't a post praising Dorsey. 1 Quote
theRalph Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 SERIOUSLY????? Daboll's offenses pre-Josh ranked 32, 29, 22 and 24. Daboll's offense with Josh ranked 30, 24, 2 and 5 Daboll's offense post-Josh ranked 18 and 28 (so far in 2023) Looks more like Josh made Daboll than the other way around. And unless Daniel Jones starts to look like Allen, it'll prob stay that way. Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted September 27, 2023 Posted September 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, theRalph said: SERIOUSLY????? Daboll's offenses pre-Josh ranked 32, 29, 22 and 24. Daboll's offense with Josh ranked 30, 24, 2 and 5 Daboll's offense post-Josh ranked 18 and 28 (so far in 2023) Looks more like Josh made Daboll than the other way around. And unless Daniel Jones starts to look like Allen, it'll prob stay that way. Almost verbatim what Joe Marino said on yesterday's Locked On Podcast Quote
theRalph Posted September 28, 2023 Posted September 28, 2023 16 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Almost verbatim what Joe Marino said on yesterday's Locked On Podcast Yes. And had the OP also watched it, we wouldn't be dealing with thread anyway. Quote
gonzo1105 Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 Quarterbacks almost always make the coach. If Dick Jauron, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularky, or Doug Marrone had Josh Allen their tenures would have been much longer. Daboll is going to get fired because he couldn’t find his Josh Allen Quote
Matt_In_NH Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 16, 6, 15, 10 are scores the Bills had in Dabol's last year.....all anyone remembers is 13 the seconds game. There were constant threads about "fire Dabol" before 13 seconds...just like all the talk on Dorsey. Their output is actually similar from the 40000 foot view. Personally, I see an offense that is evolving into something better it has ever been the last three weeks. I think if Dorsey gets a HC job and Dabol is looking for work you consider it but only in that scenario. Quote
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) If Daboll had serious elbow injury josh/2022 bills oline his offense would’ve been considerably worse than dorsey’s imo. I think Daboll is going to go down as one of the more overrated head coaching candidates in recent history. That first year is gonna be his pinnacle McDaniel is bordering on overrated for me too but that’s more of a ‘he’s very good but people are saying he’s some kind of genius’ situation. They just don’t beat playoff caliber opponents but his track star team is well suited to blowing out bottom feeders. He’s now 2-6 in the regular season against playoff teams(assuming the bills make it this year) and those two wins were flukey, very narrow wins over the ravens and bills who were decimated by injuries. The bills outgained them by like double the yards in that loss despite being down to backups or the backups of backups at nearly every position I don’t think McDaniel should be crowned for scoring a bunch of points against horrible teams because in the grand scheme of things your performance against the good teams is really all that matters especially when you’re all in like the dolphins front office is. They are in cap hell the next few years He deserves a lot of credit for designing a successful offense with a bad offensive line built around a qb that can’t use the whole field or do much of anything when the pocket is collapsing but at some point when do you start blaming the OC/head coach when tua doesn’t get better at those things. If his first read isn’t open within a second or two of the snap the chances the play will be successful drops to pretty much 0. Tua hasn’t improved at all under McDaniel the system is just really successful at masking his issues against bad/mediocre defenses Edited October 3, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan 1 Quote
May Day 10 Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 On 9/27/2023 at 4:04 PM, Mango said: Is that a Rangers-branded life jacket? 1 Quote
JGMcD2 Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 On 9/27/2023 at 3:55 PM, Mango said: I am rooting for Dorsey to succeed. I think he is growing. To me Daboll and Dorsey are two sides of the same coin. Right now I will take the guy who is still flexible and growing. That said, if the Bills are in the market for a new OC I would keep an eye on the McVay situation in LA over the next season or two. Sure they won a SB. Yes they mortgaged their future to do it. But I think fans are growing sour. Are you implying we could land Sean McVay as our OC? Quote
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said: Quarterbacks almost always make the coach. If Dick Jauron, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularky, or Doug Marrone had Josh Allen their tenures would have been much longer. Daboll is going to get fired because he couldn’t find his Josh Allen Jauron would still be trying to figure Allen out. Williams wouldn't be impressed. So unimpressed that he would be leaving rubber mats all over, and sneaking up behind Allen with an air horn. Marrone would be similarly apathetic about Allen's abilities. Mularkey would have just suited up and assigned himself to the practice squad as TE. 😁 Edited October 3, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013 1 Quote
Mango Posted October 3, 2023 Posted October 3, 2023 31 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said: Quarterbacks almost always make the coach. If Dick Jauron, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularky, or Doug Marrone had Josh Allen their tenures would have been much longer. Daboll is going to get fired because he couldn’t find his Josh Allen If Gailey landed Cam Newton he would have been our coach for a while, and dare I say would have ended the drought earlier. No complaints, we better off with McD and Josh. You can't change one thing without changing everything afterwards. 1 Quote
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