Over-reaction Three Weeks In.... Offense seems disjointed

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

They weren’t good on first down, and they really didn’t get anyone besides Diggs involved in the passing game.  Obviously, these were minor issues against the commandos, but they could become a bigger issue against top tier teams 

[Billsfan1972]

What I'm tired of reading is the # who have turned on Allen and ready to turn him into an athletic game manager and Dorsey and McD need to reign him in.

 

Look at this thread and how many seem so happy with "Game Management" Josh (especially vs. the Raiders).

 

I'm sure that's what Chiefs fans want from Mahomes too.....🤪

[Scott7975]

13 minutes ago, In Summary said:

Get me to 3rd and 2 in the most boring manner rather than counting on some extended highlight play to convert from 3rd and 9.

 

This is part of the problem.  We are in third and long too many times.

 

3rd and 10, 8, 9, 8, 8, 12, 10, 2, 4, 2  That was the first half (not in order as I put the shorts last.)

3rd and 20 (this was the int,) 5, 7, 2, 2, 2  This was the second half.  Some of it was just running game burning clock.

 

That doesn't even include all the second and longs where a lot of times it's greater than 10.  Josh is having to make perfect plays on third down too often and this is where the dink and dunk and poor play calling like draws on 2nd and 12 that everyone in the world knows is coming will collapse against teams like Miami that can put up points.  If they want to dink and dunk, that's fine. They need to do a better job on first and second down though.  Play calling needs to be better too.  The first two games the play calling was ok but this game it was pretty bad.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Scott7975

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What I'm tired of reading is the # who have turned on Allen and ready to turn him into an athletic game manager and Dorsey and McD need to reign him in.

 

Look at this thread and how many seem so happy with "Game Management" Josh (especially vs. the Raiders).

 

I'm sure that's what Chiefs fans want from Mahomes too.....🤪

 

Talk about purposely misconstruing what those people were saying.  

[Rockinon]

10 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The simple problem is they don’t have anyone besides Diggs who can consistently win his one on one matchups.  So they have to rely on scheme and Allen’s heroics if the defense takes Diggs out of the equation.

Kincaid and Knox have been pretty consistent. I honestly believe the offense is so much different than last year, they are still figuring things out. 12 personnel is pretty foreign considering they only did it 3% of the time last year.  Running the ball with RBs instead of relying on a read option and Josh possibly running is new. Josh is actually taking the snap and handing off in one smooth motion instead of scanning the D and trying to decide whether to hand off or keep it himself while the defense closes in. You can't  really tell how good the running game is going to be until you actually start doing it against different defenses. It's early in the season. The offense is learning some new tricks.

 

It will be interesting to see what new wrinkles they add throughout the season, but it is still early. Not everything will go as planned against a great defense, so the only thing you can really do is learn from mistakes and keep pushing the bar higher. If the players were so doubtful, they've all ready lost.

[That's No Moon]

6 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

They are doing that because the Right Tackle sucks and they have to chip for him all the time. They chip and release to the flat like 35% of the time I would bet. 

That's true. But they have 2 TEs.

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, Rockinon said:

Kincaid and Knox have been pretty consistent. I honestly believe the offense is so much different than last year, they are still figuring things out. 12 personnel is pretty foreign considering they only did it 3% of the time last year.  Running the ball with RBs instead of relying on a read option and Josh possibly running is new. Josh is actually taking the snap and handing off in one smooth motion instead of scanning the D and trying to decide whether to hand off or keep it himself while the defense closes in. You can't  really tell how good the running game is going to be until you actually start doing it against different defenses. It's early in the season. The offense is learning some new tricks.

 

It will be interesting to see what new wrinkles they add throughout the season, but it is still early. Not everything will go as planned against a great defense, so the only thing you can really do is learn from mistakes and keep pushing the bar higher. If the players were so doubtful, they've all ready lost.

 

The Bills scored on all but 3 drives. The offense largely in the red zone played very conservatively because they knew how much the defense was dominating. They knew that field goals would build a big enough lead so why take risks? That's playing complementary football to supplement a defense that is playing well. 

 

Next week the Bills offense will likely need to play pedal to the metal so we shall see.

[Utah John]

Too many attempts to run Cook up the middle.  The Commander's D line is above average (not as good as advertised, though) yet Dorsey kept trying to get Cook through the middle. 

 

And the red zone futility is going to kill them against strong teams.  

 

I don't see Josh as the problem.  I think it's Dorsey.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 hours ago, gobills404 said:

I just took the Chiefs 2nd quarter vs the Bears “out of the equation” for no reason and it turns out they only scored 14 points, not 41. I think their offense might be a little disjointed as well. 

The Broncos didn’t show up for all 4 quarters so if you take those away…the Dolphins scored zero points.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Big Blitz]

Can say the same about the Eagles.  
 

We don’t have a clear #2 right now.

 

I need to see Gabe light the Fish up this week or Kincaid/Knox combine for 10 catches and 100 plus yards.  

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What I'm tired of reading is the # who have turned on Allen and ready to turn him into an athletic game manager and Dorsey and McD need to reign him in.

 

Look at this thread and how many seem so happy with "Game Management" Josh (especially vs. the Raiders).

 

I'm sure that's what Chiefs fans want from Mahomes too.....🤪

 

I don't think anyone has turned on Josh. And speaking only for myself but I certainly don't want McDermott or Dorsey to reign him in. I just want Josh to make consistently better decisions. He lost us the game at the Jets with his decision making. He was exceptional in that regard against the Raiders. He was somewhere in between against the Commanders. Didn't mind the interception - that was a calculated risk (and I thought while it wasn't catchable for Gabe he could have played defense on it) but there was an earlier throw down the middle of the field into double coverage on 3rd down where he had an easy completion for a first down to Kincaid that he should have taken.

[Billsfan1972]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think anyone has turned on Josh. And speaking only for myself but I certainly don't want McDermott or Dorsey to reign him in. I just want Josh to make consistently better decisions. He lost us the game at the Jets with his decision making. He was exceptional in that regard against the Raiders. He was somewhere in between against the Commanders. Didn't mind the interception - that was a calculated risk (and I thought while it wasn't catchable for Gabe he could have played defense on it) but there was an earlier throw down the middle of the field into double coverage on 3rd down where he had an easy completion for a first down to Kincaid that he should have taken.

So I used a little hyperbole in some posts.  I'm just making a point.  

 

The question is why is Josh not making better decisions and what happened to the Josh that was in 2020 & 2021.  Somewhere around the middle of 2022 things changed and my worry is that the game plans and schemes have resulted in frustration and Allen thinking he needs to do more.

 

Look at Diggs and how he reacted during and has after the Cincy game.  Sorry tells me something is off. 

 

Didn't watch the Jets game (and happy for that).

 

Miami will be the test and I look forward to a week of armchair coaches going on about Allen managing the game, TOP and keeping Miami off the field.

 

Sorry I think Allen needs to throw for 350 (maybe 400+) and the Bills convert in the red zone.  

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

So I used a little hyperbole in some posts.  I'm just making a point.  

 

The question is why is Josh not making better decisions and what happened to the Josh that was in 2020 & 2021.  Somewhere around the middle of 2022 things changed and my worry is that the game plans and schemes have resulted in frustration and Allen thinking he needs to do more.

 

Look at Diggs and how he reacted during and has after the Cincy game.  Sorry tells me something is off. 

 

Didn't watch the Jets game (and happy for that).

 

Miami will be the test and I look forward to a week of armchair coaches going on about Allen managing the game, TOP and keeping Miami off the field.

 

Sorry I think Allen needs to throw for 350 (maybe 400+) and the Bills convert in the red zone.  

 

There has definitely been a drop off of sorts since the middle of last year.... and there are a lot of factors but Josh's performance is one of them. There were excuses last year with the piss poor OL and the injury. This year he has to be consistent. To an extent the excuses are removed.

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There has definitely been a drop off of sorts since the middle of last year.... and there are a lot of factors but Josh's performance is one of them. There were excuses last year with the piss poor OL and the injury. This year he has to be consistent. To an extent the excuses are removed.

I just haven't seen Dorsey putting him in good positions to succeed.  Look at all the second and longs vs. Washington.  Nothing seems simple.  When was the last simple screen that gained chunks yards, a quick slant or well designed red zone td pass?

Edited September 26, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[biggerdaddynj]

On 9/25/2023 at 6:57 AM, Billznut said:

I think what we are witnessing is the evolution into what the Bills braintrust sees as their “blueprint” to taking the next step for winning in the postseason. It’s no secret McD would like to see more running and more control by the trenches. I think we are witnessing Buffalo making the transformation from the pass happy offense of the last few years into what they think and hope will finally get them over the finish line in Jan and Feb. It will be a work in progress with peaks and valleys all season, seeing what works and what doesn’t. I expect the plan is to be firmly comfortable with this “new” style balanced offense by December for the home stretch. And I bet by next season they have it even more perfected. 

Post Josh—we never had a running game like this.  Cook is not a grind out the yards when defenses expect the run—he’s best at getting to the edge and cutting back between the tackles.   Neither lend themselves to picking up those tough 2-4 yards you need when the D knows you have to run because Josh running with his Superman cape as our RB1 on every tough rushing down was Russian Roulette.  I want him to retire a Bill and Murray and Harris are strong runners who can and have gotten us those tough  yards.  OL keeps up good work and we have a team that could have held off the Jets with a 13-3 halftime by pound the ball and grind D and the clock. Protect Josh while being able to win those battles.

Edited September 26, 2023 by biggerdaddynj

[PaattMaann]

Some of the posts in this thread make me wonder if some people even watch our games. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I just haven't seen Dorsey putting him in good positions to succeed.  Look at all the second and longs vs. Washington.  Nothing seems simple.  When was the last simple screen that gained chunks yards, a quick slant or well designed red zone td pass?

 

Dorsey did not call a good game against Washington. I agree. But actually we did run a few slants well in the game. We are bad at screens. It is partly we telegraph them and partly teams don't surge upfield in their rush v us anyway because of Josh's legs. The Ravens have had the same issue with screens and again it is because teams hold back on their rush a bit anyway because of Lamar's legs. 

 

And I think the redzone design is a legit critcism too. But over the first two games I thought Dorsey did a good job with gameplans and playcalling. This past week was a bit of a clunker for him.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think anyone has turned on Josh. And speaking only for myself but I certainly don't want McDermott or Dorsey to rein him in. I just want Josh to make consistently better decisions. He lost us the game at the Jets with his decision making. He was exceptional in that regard against the Raiders. He was somewhere in between against the Commanders. Didn't mind the interception - that was a calculated risk (and I thought while it wasn't catchable for Gabe he could have played defense on it) but there was an earlier throw down the middle of the field into double coverage on 3rd down where he had an easy completion for a first down to Kincaid that he should have taken.

The pick to gabe was a punt that could turn into PI

 

on 3rd and 20 Im great with that and would encourage Gabe to worry less about playing defense and more about trying to draw a foul because it’s the rare time that OPI or an interception dont matter at all. Go make a play towards the ball not the defender.

Edited September 26, 2023 by NoSaint

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I pick to gabe was a punt that could turn into PI

 

on 3rd and 20 Im great with that and would encourage Gabe to worry less about playing defense and more about trying to draw a foul because it’s the rare time that OPI or an interception dont matter at all. Go make a play towards the ball not the defender.

 

Yea he coulda done that as well. He did nothing.

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea he coulda done that as well. He did nothing.

Not the first time.  Has he ever drawn a PI penalty?