Justin Herbert's record after 52 starts vs others (couple former Bills show up)

[Alphadawg7]

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games.  And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more.

 

These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts:

 

Mark Sanchez:  31-21

Andy Dalton:  31-21

Mitch Trubisky:  29-23

Carson Wentz:  28-24

Teddy Bridgewater:  28-24

Baker Mayfield:  27-25

Matt Cassel:  27-25

Tyrod Taylor:  26-25-1

______________________________

Justin Herbert:  25-27

 

I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him.  

 

Just sayin'

[FireChans]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games.  And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more.

 

These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts:

 

Mark Sanchez:  31-21

Andy Dalton:  31-21

Mitch Trubisky:  29-23

Carson Wentz:  28-24

Teddy Bridgewater:  28-24

Baker Mayfield:  27-25

Matt Cassel:  27-25

Tyrod Taylor:  26-25-1

______________________________

Justin Herbert:  25-27

 

I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him.  

 

Just sayin'

I think Justin Herbert is a great QB being held back by putrid coaching moreso than just about anyone else in the league, but I also think he’s overrated. 
 

It’s kind of a conundrum. 

[WMDman]

I think he’s over rated but look at the coaches he’s had Anthony Lynn was awful and Staley might be worse

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Tua > Herbert?

 

 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

The Chargers are perennial under-performers. In 2010 they had the league's top offense and defense yet missed the playoffs.

[Nelius]

Been banging the Herbert is overrated drum since early last year. He's very good at providing wooden 285yd-1td performances. Any more however is rare, and I've yet to see him really put the team on his back. Kind of disappointing really. A couple of years ago many assumed he and Josh would clash as mega-QBs but I'm just not seeing the same tier in Herbert.

 

Healthy Tua is probably better at this point, or right there with him.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think Justin Herbert is a great QB being held back by putrid coaching moreso than just about anyone else in the league, but I also think he’s overrated. 
 

It’s kind of a conundrum. 

 

Yeah I agree the coaching is a joke...I am stunned Staley wasn't fired after weeks 1 and 2.  Its like he has majored in how to lose games.  Like I said, not putting it all on Herbert by any means, but geesh, I was shocked when I saw he actually has a losing record given the amount of talent he has around him and the level he has played it.  Seems like bad coaching or not, he should at least be over .500 after 52 games.

 

I mean Trubisky had even worse coaching in Chicago, they didn't even try and develop him, and he had no talent around him there...but he has a winning record and took Chicago to the playoffs.  

 

So was just a little surprised to see just how little he and the Chargers have won despite a loaded offense.  

[AuntieEm]

31 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah I agree the coaching is a joke...I am stunned Staley wasn't fired after weeks 1 and 2.  Its like he has majored in how to lose games.  Like I said, not putting it all on Herbert by any means, but geesh, I was shocked when I saw he actually has a losing record given the amount of talent he has around him and the level he has played it.  Seems like bad coaching or not, he should at least be over .500 after 52 games.

 

I mean Trubisky had even worse coaching in Chicago, they didn't even try and develop him, and he had no talent around him there...but he has a winning record and took Chicago to the playoffs.  

 

So was just a little surprised to see just how little he and the Chargers have won despite a loaded offense.  

And yet he got paid like he is a winning quarterback.  It's amazing that they paid him like he was a winner but I guess Chargers got a different definition for franchise qb.  One who plays to the script he's given.  Maybe that's why the Chargers moved to LA. For the easy access to actimg coaches to help their players excel in their roles as per the nfl script.  I'm sure they will be in the running for some soon to be  top qb in upcoming drafts.  Then they'll be allowed to trade this loser to a real needy franchise with more of a winning history.  Maybe Washington after theý get their next hc and new gm following new ownership making the changes?  I know Snyder really ran the skins into a losing culture for as once solidly run franchise. Once there he will be able to at least partially improve might not be given a winners script they may just let him play out his contract then get a future rookie prospect to rinse repeat as the nfl writes its new scripts. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by AuntieEm

[JerseyBills]

geez. Every year since Rivers they're hyped up and talented and continue to underperform every year, pretty unbelievable 

[AuntieEm]

23 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

geez. Every year since Rivers they're hyped up and talented and continue to underperform every year, pretty unbelievable 

They get better once the new owners put their new gm and coach in  so there can be a reason for the sudden change back to winning football.  

They promote bienemy who hires Frazier as his new DC while mcd may hire Rivera for his open DC spot even while his calling the defense went well they need to give Rivera a spot on s winning team to rehab his image. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by AuntieEm

[MJS]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

geez. Every year since Rivers they're hyped up and talented and continue to underperform every year, pretty unbelievable 

If a team continually under performs, it just means they are overrated. Dallas was in that category for a few years, but they fixed their defense and now they look pretty good.

[Dr.Sack]

Eventually you have to win more games than you lose. 

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, WMDman said:

I think he’s over rated but look at the coaches he’s had Anthony Lynn was awful and Staley might be worse

Maybe a bit, but its not his fault his defense choked away a 23 point 2nd half lead in the playoffs.

 

Now that's an epic defensive meltdown!

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games.  And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more.

 

These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts:

 

Mark Sanchez:  31-21

Andy Dalton:  31-21

Mitch Trubisky:  29-23

Carson Wentz:  28-24

Teddy Bridgewater:  28-24

Baker Mayfield:  27-25

Matt Cassel:  27-25

Tyrod Taylor:  26-25-1

______________________________

Justin Herbert:  25-27

 

I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him.  

 

Just sayin'

 

So a few things on this...  

 

First, I have said consistently that even within games Justin Herbert is streaky. His 3rd Quarter stats in particular are poor and I see too many games of his where he goes into a strange lull. Kinda like we had with Josh in 2019... but that was Josh's second year. It isna recurring issue with Herbert that still shows itself. 

 

But second, I disagree his weapons are that great. He has two big slow guys and a scat back (a very good scat back but still). It was a major problem for the Chargers last year and has been so far this year.... they don't separate and the have nobody to get deep and take the top off. So defenses just sit on them. Allen is still a crafty route runner but is basically a big slot only at this point he offers almost no downfield threat outside. Mike Williams is Gabe Davis but with a top 10 draft tag. He is a big body, decent in the redzone and you can use him in physical 1v1s on the boundary. But I actually think Gabe offers more deep threat. They drafted Johnston who has 2 catches for 9 yards thus far... they need to try and incorporate him quickly because at least he offers some deep speed (though his game has other holes). And they drafted the wrong guy IMO. Tom Telesco likes big so it was always gonna be Johnston or Kincaid but they should have drafted Jordan Addison. He was the EXACT player that offense was crying out for.

 

He also has some of the worst coaching in the NFL. Brandon Staley is a defensive coach. And the Chargers have more 2023 cap dollars invested in defense than every other team in the league. For their defense to be this horrible with Bosa, Mack, Kendricks, Jackson and James is unforgiveable.

 

So yea Justin Herbert deserves some questioning. He hasn't yet taken that step from super talented playmaking QB to elite level performance QB but his weapons and his coaching are major issues. The one excuse he doesn't have is protection. That oline is stacked.

Edited September 22, 2023 by GunnerBill

[CSBill]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games.  And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more.

 

These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts:

 

Mark Sanchez:  31-21

Andy Dalton:  31-21

Mitch Trubisky:  29-23

Carson Wentz:  28-24

Teddy Bridgewater:  28-24

Baker Mayfield:  27-25

Matt Cassel:  27-25

Tyrod Taylor:  26-25-1

______________________________

Justin Herbert:  25-27

 

I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him.  

 

Just sayin'

They should be going after Mark Sanchez. 

[NewEra]

Dean Spanos.  
 

Herbert has no chance. 

[Pete]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games.  And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more.

 

These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts:

 

Mark Sanchez:  31-21

Andy Dalton:  31-21

Mitch Trubisky:  29-23

Carson Wentz:  28-24

Teddy Bridgewater:  28-24

Baker Mayfield:  27-25

Matt Cassel:  27-25

Tyrod Taylor:  26-25-1

______________________________

Justin Herbert:  25-27

 

I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him.  

 

Just sayin'

The Chargers are an enigma wrapped in a riddle to me.  They are loaded with talent.  Herbert looks great every time I’ve seen him.  He checks all the QB boxes.  The Chargers should be a Super Bowl contender.  But instead they are a jet plane that cannot take off

Edited September 22, 2023 by Pete

[Ya Digg?]

People love Herbert because they are looking for the next Josh. Here’s the good and bad of Herbert:

The Good

can make throws similar to Josh (but not as well or as frequently)

Doesn’t turn the ball over as much as Josh does

 

The Bad

Pretty much everything else 

 

People will say it’s because of the defense and there’s some validity in that, but when you have the amount of weapons he has at WR and RB you should be able to win at least some of the shootouts he gets into

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Ya Digg? said:

People love Herbert because they are looking for the next Josh. Here’s the good and bad of Herbert:

The Good

can make throws similar to Josh (but not as well or as frequently)

Doesn’t turn the ball over as much as Josh does

 

The Bad

Pretty much everything else 

 

People will say it’s because of the defense and there’s some validity in that, but when you have the amount of weapons he has at WR and RB you should be able to win at least some of the shootouts he gets into

 

I don't think the weapons are as good as the names suggest, Eckler apart, and then it comes down to @BADOLBILZ's point about even when you have a really good receiving back if you have an offense designed to throw to your receiving back a ton that is going to turn you into a dink and dunk offense whether you wanna be or not. Eckler's average yards per reception was a pitiful 6.7 yards last year (he was pretty high on that metric earlier in his career). Compare that to Cole Beasley's first two years as Josh's "outlet" receiver here in the slot where he was over 11 yards per catch. If your outlet receiver is a back rather than a slot or tight end it almost always means you are sacrificing yardage. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I'm a big "Wins are NOT a QB stat" guy. And like some have pointed out there are likely many things that factor into the Chargers win/loss record with Herbert. Yes, coaching plays a huge factor. Staley has the knack of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory". Fun fact, the Chargers interviewed Brian Daboll for the HC job before hiring Staley. Wonder how they would be today had they made the hire?

 

Also he does have weapons, sure. Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Eckler. Was always a curious decision to me why they let Hunter Henry walk as a young QB really can lean on a TE. But of the 3 weapons they have kept all 3 have been routinely in and out of the lineup with injury. Herbert himself played much of last year hampered by a rib injury. They cannot keep them healthy. I also am not sure pairing Herbert with more physical possession receivers is a good mix for his skills.

 

Despite all that however, I do think the biggest issues with Herbert is he lacks that "it" factor. That drive inside to take over a game and be the reason that his team wins. He seems more "along for the ride". He has ELITE skills. He lacks, in my opinion that inner drive to win.