Josh Named AFC Offensive Player of the Week 2 and Week 4

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

12 hours ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

How is this so when all I hear is how he sucks so bad?!??!  Go Bills!!

Must be multiverse crossovers and/or incursions. 🤔

[Doc]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

What, no honor for week one ??? 

 

Yeah, really.  It was definitely offensive...

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

His elbow looks sore

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

that’s all fair I think. I would say that it may take time and trust. In the past his oline hasn’t been good and honestly his skill players last year outside of Diggs were bad. YAC has been a problem almost his whole career and I don’t blame that all on ball placement. 
 

I’ll also say that even though the offense has been good at putting points up, it just seems difficult. Even this past week some of it looked difficult. Other games I watch guys wide open easy pitch catch type stuff that Allen doesn’t seem to get all that often. I’m sure maybe he is in part to blame but other reasons as well. 
 

I look forward to the rest of the season and really hope Allen puts his game together like Mahomes has. He definitely has the talent. 

"It seems difficult," is a good way to put it.  Yes, even Sunday, even though lots of drives ended it touchdowns.   I can't really prove it, but I think defenses have a book on Allen on the Bills.   1.  Do not let him throw long.  2.  Do not let him run.   A lot of zone defense helps accomplish both of those things.   Teams were able to get away with deep drops on zones in part (I think) because Allen didn't take the easy throw, the short throw, unless as a last resort.  

 

Sunday, he was taking those throws.  It seemed almost like he was looking for them.   That gave the offense the look of struggling, because he was throwing what looked like check downs, over and over.   I don't think that's really what was happening.  I think Allen really drank the Kool-Aid before Sunday's game, and the Bills showed the Raiders (and the league) that they score more or less every time if the defense is designed to stop Allen and the big play.  The Bills really crushed the Raiders with that game.   

 

Now, it's not all on Allen.  Yes, I think he made decisions the way the offense demands.   But I think the other change is the running game.  The ball isn't in Allen's hands all the time now, because he isn't the running game.  So, it wasn't just Allen taking the easy throw.  It also was the Bills running the ball with their backs, consistently, with positive gains on enough runs to make running a consistent contributor to the offense. 

 

It goes back to what I said about skill players.   I think the way modern offenses succeed is by giving your skill guys the ball as often as you can.  The more plays your skill players have the ball, the better your offense will be.   Until we saw the Bills Sunday, giving the ball to the backs hasn't been something the Bills have wanted to do.   The backs weren't great, and the offensive line didn't get the job done.  But on Sunday, the running backs consistently hurt the defense, because the backs are better and the line is better.  So, in a sense, on Sunday the Bills had more skill players on the field than they have in the past, because they had skill players with the right skills.   The other part of getting the ball to skill players more often is a higher completion percentage.   Every completed pass is another play a skill guy has contributed, and every completed pass is a chance for a skill guy to make a play.  It's why I compared them to the 49ers.    

 

So, yes, even Sunday the offense looked difficult.  But I think that's primarily because the Raiders defense sold out to stop the pass and stop Allen.  Defenses wil adjust, because the Bills are saying to everyone, "If you don't stop our short stuff, you'll never get the ball.  We can run 6-7-8-9 minute drives, and we can score in the red zone."  Once defenses start looking for ways to stop the short stuff, the things that make the offense look easy - the 15-20 yard completions to open receivers, Allen breaking off a 20 yarder because the defense wasn't looking - will come back.  

 

In a way, I think what is happening is something that McDermott said several years ago - that he intended to build an offense that attacks every part of the field, sideline to sideline, from the line of scrimmage to the opponent's goal line.  Allen and John Brown and Diggs gave him a way to attack deep up the sidelines.  Davis became useful medium deep over the middle.  Beasley helped shallower over middle, but he was limited in some ways.   Allen wasn't good throwing the touch passes in the flat when he first got to Buffalo, and even now that he throws that ball well, he hasn't really had players who could do much of anything out there.    Now, it's different.  Kincaid is full-fledged threat in the middle, and he's more effective in the flat that the other tight ends.  McKenzie wasn't versatile enough in the flat or over the middle.  Cook is a threat in the flat, better than Singletary, and Murray is, too.  The run game can attack the line of scrimmage.   

 

In short, the Bills look like they have what McDermott wanted, and the offense that can attack everywhere.  To bring it back to Allen, he now doesn't have to be the answer on every play.   He just has to get the ball to all the other guys.   He's extraordinarily talented, physically, at doing that; he just as to keep taking the easy play, over and over.   And then, every once in a while, on a play here and there, things won't go right, and Superman will save the day.  As I said, what he needs to be is Brock Purdy most of the time - just run the play as designed, and get the ball to all those guys who can catch and run.  Then, every once in a while, do something that Brock Purdy can only dream of. 

[Sierra Foothills]

20 hours ago, sunshynman said:

He wasn't reading any social this week. He was watching WS of Poker. Unless you iMessaged him!

 

For those who are unsure of this, it's true.

 

Besides watching poker, Josh also said he deleted all the social media apps from his phone.

 

16 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

I read it someplace but to be honest I don't thinki it is true or we'd have heard it on game broadcasts aþ least once by now.

 

Justin Herbert is actually related to the golfer Jack Nicklaus I believe.

 

16 hours ago, CSBill said:

Jordon Love ???

 

That's the one that jumped out at me.

 

13 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Misinformation

Frank Herbert (Known for 1965 novel Dune and its five sequels) had three children  

• Brian (b. 1947)
• Bruce (1951–1993)
• Penelope (b. February 16, 1942) - Justin's mother's name is Holly, a University of Oregon basketball player.

 

Justin's father Mark Herbert (Montana 1983 not to be confused with Rugby player with same name) and maternal grandfather Rich Schwab (Oregon 1961-1963) played football.

 

Jack Nicklaus. Also Harvard.

 

12 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Milano gets recognition too

https://x.com/builtinbuffalo_/status/1704321183733194884?s=61&t=s-bkdDXJMtQhYqbJSiNmsQ

 

So poorly written: "Matt Milano was the highest graded linebacker this past week against the Raiders!"

 

No. It should be "Matt Milano was the highest graded linebacker in the NFL in week 3"

 

BTW, some news stories are saying that this was Josh's 11th... one more than Jimbo but that contention is contradicted by this:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/potw_career.htm

 

 

[AuntieEm]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

 

So he's not the Kwisatz Haderach?

No so drought won't be alleviated for his franchise with him at center.

36 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

For those who are unsure of this, it's true.

 

Besides watching poker, Josh also said he deleted all the social media apps from his phone.

 

 

Justin Herbert is actually related to the golfer Jack Nicklaus I believe.

 

 

That's the one that jumped out at me.

 

 

Jack Nicklaus. Also Harvard.

 

 

So poorly written: "Matt Milano was the highest graded linebacker this past week against the Raiders!"

 

No. It should be "Matt Milano was the highest graded linebacker in the NFL in week 3"

 

BTW, some news stories are saying that this was Josh's 11th... one more than Jimbo but that contention is contradicted by this:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/potw_career.htm

 

 

l nicklaus grandson was on Bills for a bit   can't remember his name but iirc he signed with Miami after the Bills cut him.  Think he was a te or wr.  

 

 

As for the potw that Jimbo got. Guess someone missed counting some of his early awards before he lead the Bills to super bowls.  That or they are counting any awards he won while in usfl perhaps.

Edited September 21, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Sierra Foothills]

5 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

No so drought won't be alleviated for his franchise with him at center.

l nicklaus grandson was on Bills for a bit   can't remember his name but iirc he signed with Miami after the Bills cut him.  Think he was a te or wr.  

 

 

No. I'm pretty positive that Justin Herbert is the grandson of Jack Nicklaus.

 

Or maybe it was Jack Nicholson.

 

 

[AuntieEm]

35 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

No. I'm pretty positive that Justin Herbert is the grandson of Jack Nicklaus.

 

Or maybe it was Jack Nicholson.

 

 

No it was another player that is a former bill and it was a receiver that didn't wear gloves.  I can't remember his name but it was like 3 4 years ago he was on Bills.think he was a Bill pre Josh because he was probably better than the guys we had at wr  te when Josh came aboard. 

 

 

I went back to tyrods time to get rosters and found the real grandson. Of Jack Nicklaus. It was. Nick Orleans that was the grandson. He's the son of Jack's daughter Nancy.   Google jack Nicklaus grandson nfl for confirmation.   In fact I bet o'leary was named Nicklaus as his first name for his grandfather. I'm just guessing there but it's a reasonable assumption to make with just the limited info I have of their family.

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Shaw66]

21 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

No. I'm pretty positive that Justin Herbert is the grandson of Jack Nicklaus.

 

Or maybe it was Jack Nicholson.

 

 

Or maybe it was Nicholas Nickleby.  One of those guys. 

[Sierra Foothills]

30 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

No it was another player that is a former bill and it was a receiver that didn't wear gloves.  I can't remember his name but it was like 3 4 years ago he was on Bills.think he was a Bill pre Josh because he was probably better than the guys we had at wr  te when Josh came aboard. 

 

 

I went back to tyrods time to get rosters and found the real grandson. Of Jack Nicklaus. It was. Nick Orleans that was the grandson. He's the son of Jack's daughter Nancy.   Google jack Nicklaus grandson nfl for confirmation.   In fact I bet o'leary was named Nicklaus as his first name for his grandfather. I'm just guessing there but it's a reasonable assumption to make with just the limited info I have of their family.

 

 

 

 

That's so weird that Jack Nicklaus has two grandsons that played in the NFL.

 

[AuntieEm]

10 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

That's so weird that Jack Nicklaus has two grandsons that played in the NFL.

 

Only nick oleary is  his grandson Herbert is not related to anyone famous. They would be name dropping it all over  in games he's playing on national broadcasts.  And with golf being such a favorite pasttine for many nfl players they wouldn't be quiet on a jack Nicklaus connection. Besides Jack only had 1 daughter to 4  sons so if there were 2 with differing surnames they'd still have to be at least half brothers so broadcast teams would be bringing up Herbert's being the brother if nick oleary even if nick just had a cup of coffee in the NFL in terms of career  length and inpaxt.

Edited September 21, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Sierra Foothills]

14 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Only nick oleary is  his grandson Herbert is not related to anyone famous. They would be name dropping it all over  in games he's playing on national broadcasts.  And with golf being such a favorite pasttine for many nfl players they wouldn't be quiet on a jack Nicklaus connection. Besides Jack only had 1 daughter to 4  sons so if there were 2 with differing surnames they'd still have to be at least half brothers so broadcast teams would be bringing up Herbert's being the brother if nick oleary even if nick just had a cup of coffee in the NFL in terms of career  length and inpaxt.

 

Then I must have mixed him up with Jack Nicholson.

 

[AuntieEm]

13 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Then I must have mixed him up with Jack Nicholson.

 

Jack Nicklaus and Jack Nicholson are mixed up on this message board  but  Jack Nicholson  would be aneven bigger name drop  for the football commentators to talk about.  I'd also imagine with Jack being a big basketball fan any grandchildren of his likely would pursue basketball more likely than a football career.

 

Now Denzel Washington has a son that played pro football at the nfl level for a time don't think he still plays as he wasn't a standout star at the nfl level.

Edited September 21, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Shaw66]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:19 PM, Shaw66 said:

I think at the skill positions, collectively the Bills look like the 49ers.   Yeah, we can argue about the names, and the reputations, but Knox and Kincaid create a lot of threats at tight end.  Kittle does, in different ways.   Diggs is a serious threat, different from Deebo, but I don't know that I'm trading, even up.  Bills running backs create tests.  All the 49er guys have bigger reputations, but the Bills are similarly challenging to defenses.   Now, imagine the 49ers having Allen at QB instead of Brock Purdy.   I think it's easy to imagine what a huge difference that would be.  If Allen ran that offense as designed, and you take his mobility, arm strength, toughness over Purdy's, that would be incredible. 

 

That's what I think Allen can be, and I'm all in on it.   But it is very much about his ability to increase the touches for his teammates, and that's about sustaining drives and not turning it over.  Want to know what the biggest stat of the game was?  The Bills ran 74 plays to the Raiders 39.   How many of those 74 plays were Josh Allen highlights?   Very few.  He spent the whole game making sure that the playmakers got the ball.   When you have good playmakers, it's all about getting them the ball.  And it's an added bonus when your QB is one of the best playmakers anyone has ever seen.  

 

 

So, I watched the Giants and 49ers last night, and I did this.   I imagined Josh Allen at QB, running that offense the way Purdy runs it, game-manager style.   When Purdy consistently overthrew receivers deep, I imagined the way Allen would throw the same pass.  I imagined Allen escaping the pocket when Purdy couldn't.  There were a half dozen throws last night that Purdy failed to complete that are gimmes for Allen.  The 49ers with Allen behind center would be unbeatable.  

 

And the 49ers offense moved the ball the way the Bills did on Sunday - methodically.  Nothing fancy; just get the ball to the skill players on every down.  Avoid downs when no skill guy has the ball in his hands.  Samuel, McCaffrey, Kittle, other guys, over and over.  Just give them the ball.   Then, when the defense slips up, hit them with a big play.  

 

And, yes, their skill players are different, to be sure, and maybe better (it's amazing how all three of their big stars always get the extra yards), but Diggs, Davis, Knox, Kincaid, Cook and the role players are very good.  The Bills even use their fullback/H-back/tight end the same way.  Allen needs to get the ball in the skill players' hands every play.  He needs to take the sure completion instead of the possible big play.   Just take it every time.   The biggest enemy in the Bills offense is the incompletion, because incompletions are plays where no skill player has a chance to make a play.  

 

People argue that asking Allen to play that way is taking the ball out of his hands, it's compromising his greatness.  I don't think so.  His total yards rushing will go down, but that's okay because everyone knows that running the ball is going to shorten his career.  His passer rating will go up, because his completion percentage will go up, his TD/INT ratio will go up.  The Bills' total yards on offense will go up, because every play that is not an incompletion will add yards to the offense.  Everything will go up except hits on the quarterback.  

[Sherlock Holmes]

On 9/21/2023 at 9:31 AM, Shaw66 said:

"It seems difficult," is a good way to put it.  Yes, even Sunday, even though lots of drives ended it touchdowns.   I can't really prove it, but I think defenses have a book on Allen on the Bills.   1.  Do not let him throw long.  2.  Do not let him run.   A lot of zone defense helps accomplish both of those things.   Teams were able to get away with deep drops on zones in part (I think) because Allen didn't take the easy throw, the short throw, unless as a last resort.  

 

Sunday, he was taking those throws.  It seemed almost like he was looking for them.   That gave the offense the look of struggling, because he was throwing what looked like check downs, over and over.   I don't think that's really what was happening.  I think Allen really drank the Kool-Aid before Sunday's game, and the Bills showed the Raiders (and the league) that they score more or less every time if the defense is designed to stop Allen and the big play.  The Bills really crushed the Raiders with that game.   

 

Now, it's not all on Allen.  Yes, I think he made decisions the way the offense demands.   But I think the other change is the running game.  The ball isn't in Allen's hands all the time now, because he isn't the running game.  So, it wasn't just Allen taking the easy throw.  It also was the Bills running the ball with their backs, consistently, with positive gains on enough runs to make running a consistent contributor to the offense. 

 

It goes back to what I said about skill players.   I think the way modern offenses succeed is by giving your skill guys the ball as often as you can.  The more plays your skill players have the ball, the better your offense will be.   Until we saw the Bills Sunday, giving the ball to the backs hasn't been something the Bills have wanted to do.   The backs weren't great, and the offensive line didn't get the job done.  But on Sunday, the running backs consistently hurt the defense, because the backs are better and the line is better.  So, in a sense, on Sunday the Bills had more skill players on the field than they have in the past, because they had skill players with the right skills.   The other part of getting the ball to skill players more often is a higher completion percentage.   Every completed pass is another play a skill guy has contributed, and every completed pass is a chance for a skill guy to make a play.  It's why I compared them to the 49ers.    

 

So, yes, even Sunday the offense looked difficult.  But I think that's primarily because the Raiders defense sold out to stop the pass and stop Allen.  Defenses wil adjust, because the Bills are saying to everyone, "If you don't stop our short stuff, you'll never get the ball.  We can run 6-7-8-9 minute drives, and we can score in the red zone."  Once defenses start looking for ways to stop the short stuff, the things that make the offense look easy - the 15-20 yard completions to open receivers, Allen breaking off a 20 yarder because the defense wasn't looking - will come back.  

 

In a way, I think what is happening is something that McDermott said several years ago - that he intended to build an offense that attacks every part of the field, sideline to sideline, from the line of scrimmage to the opponent's goal line.  Allen and John Brown and Diggs gave him a way to attack deep up the sidelines.  Davis became useful medium deep over the middle.  Beasley helped shallower over middle, but he was limited in some ways.   Allen wasn't good throwing the touch passes in the flat when he first got to Buffalo, and even now that he throws that ball well, he hasn't really had players who could do much of anything out there.    Now, it's different.  Kincaid is full-fledged threat in the middle, and he's more effective in the flat that the other tight ends.  McKenzie wasn't versatile enough in the flat or over the middle.  Cook is a threat in the flat, better than Singletary, and Murray is, too.  The run game can attack the line of scrimmage.   

 

In short, the Bills look like they have what McDermott wanted, and the offense that can attack everywhere.  To bring it back to Allen, he now doesn't have to be the answer on every play.   He just has to get the ball to all the other guys.   He's extraordinarily talented, physically, at doing that; he just as to keep taking the easy play, over and over.   And then, every once in a while, on a play here and there, things won't go right, and Superman will save the day.  As I said, what he needs to be is Brock Purdy most of the time - just run the play as designed, and get the ball to all those guys who can catch and run.  Then, every once in a while, do something that Brock Purdy can only dream of. 

Purdy is Josh Allen Jr. Just a little less rocket on the legs and arm. Also Purdy doesn't Hurdle or Stiff Arm he'll take the sack and attack for the 1st down next play.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:11 PM, Don Otreply said:

So Josh is good again?? 

The fact that people thought a 6th year QB routinely in the MVP discussion every year forgot how to play QB blows my mind. Especially the Wentz comparisons. 

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Purdy is Josh Allen Jr. Just a little less rocket on the legs and arm. Also Purdy doesn't Hurdle or Stiff Arm he'll take the sack and attack for the 1st down next play.

What Purdy knows how to do is run the game.  His problem is that there are six to ten plays a game where his body can't deliver what the play demands.  Allen doesn't have that problem.  Allen needs to run games like Purdy does, and when he does, the Bills will be awesome.  He did it against the Raiders, and the Bills dominated.  

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

What Purdy knows how to do is run the game.  His problem is that there are six to ten plays a game where his body can't deliver what the play demands.  Allen doesn't have that problem.  Allen needs to run games like Purdy does, and when he does, the Bills will be awesome.  He did it against the Raiders, and the Bills dominated.  

Purdy knows how to be undefeated too

[Nephilim17]

I'm glad for this. It proves to Josh he can be recognized as "great "when he's surgical and efficient.

 

I think every QB who's getting paid hundreds of millions wants to be recognized as great. The claim I read here that Josh was heard/recorded saying "I'm the best athlete in the world!" would support this. His hero ball is probably a manifestation of the desire to live up to the hype.

 

So hopefully this is is positive reinforcement that high efficiency can be great too.

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

What Purdy knows how to do is run the game.  His problem is that there are six to ten plays a game where his body can't deliver what the play demands.  Allen doesn't have that problem.  Allen needs to run games like Purdy does, and when he does, the Bills will be awesome.  He did it against the Raiders, and the Bills dominated.  

Correct!  We need the Josh from last week. Cover 2 deep shell I kill you with 1000 cuts. Man coverage and single High safety, I throw for 400+ on your butts.  If he can just do that and stay consistent with that mind set... Dang!