Fan dies in stands after fight at Patriots game

[Beast]

Are any of us surprised this hasn’t happened at a Bills game?

 

I’m all for alcohol consumption and being rowdy. I’m all against violence unless it is the absolute last resort.

[BillsFan692]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The chance of spontaneous violence like this incident? Yeah.

The chance of planned/coordinated violence, as in gang activity? I've seen a lot of that fueled by weed alone.

Weed bro? Come on.... makes people lazy and pacified not aggressive lol Alcohol on the other hand is far, far worse.

Edited September 19, 2023 by BillsFan692

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, BillsFan692 said:

Weed bro? Come on.... makes people lazy and pacified not aggressive lol Alcohol on the other hand is far, far worse.

I think you need to check some stats regarding drug testing results of violent offenders. I have no doubt alcohol is worse, but the "pot smokers are lazy, pacified, and can't be bothered to get off the couch to point a gun at someone" is very 1970s.

[rusty shackleford]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

Are any of us surprised this hasn’t happened at a Bills game?

 

I’m all for alcohol consumption and being rowdy. I’m all against violence unless it is the absolute last resort.

The Dolphins fan that was found dead in the creek after getting tossed out was probably the closest thing that happened. Not sure if the entire story on that was ever really figured out.

[BillsFan692]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

I think you need to check some stats regarding drug testing results of violent offenders. I have no doubt alcohol is worse, but the "pot smokers are lazy, pacified, and can't be bothered to get off the couch to point a gun at someone" is very 1970s.

I think stats and how they get presented can be very misleading -- but I am sure you already know that being that you are on a bills forum. Your "Reefer madness" sentiment is a lot older than 1970, so your mentality is going back to the 50s or something. 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, BillsFan692 said:

I think stats and how they get presented can be very misleading -- but I am sure you already know that being that you are on a bills forum. Your "Reefer madness" sentiment is a lot older than 1970, so your mentality is going back to the 50s or something. 

 

No, there's no reefer madness mentality here. I have lived in Colorado for decades, was for legalization, and believe that marijuana should be legal and regulated at the federal level.

But again: it's not a wholly benign drug (is any mood altering drug?), and there's plenty of evidence refuting the peaceful stoner stereotype. And anecdotally, I have seen many such examples. One good study:

https://jaapl.org/content/early/2021/12/10/JAAPL.210034-21#:~:text=Cannabis Use and Violent Criminal,Arseneault et al.

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 minutes ago, rusty shackleford said:

The Dolphins fan that was found dead in the creek after getting tossed out was probably the closest thing that happened. Not sure if the entire story on that was ever really figured out.

Posted it above. Has it been 10 years!

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/buffalo-bills-fan-dead-ralph-wilson-stadium_n_2145501

 

I am not sure if they ever said what really happened?  Probably just died in drunken confusion in Smokes Creek.

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

No, there's no reefer madness mentality here. I have lived in Colorado for decades, was for legalization, and believe that marijuana should be legal and regulated at the federal level.

But again: it's not a wholly benign drug (is any mood altering drug?), and there's plenty of evidence refuting the peaceful stoner stereotype. And anecdotally, I have seen many such examples. One good study:

https://jaapl.org/content/early/2021/12/10/JAAPL.210034-21#:~:text=Cannabis Use and Violent Criminal,Arseneault et al.

Studies linking it to people with schizophrenic tendencies... 

 

I am all for it... But you kinda wonder why society is wigging out? Unintended consequences?  Maybe we really did get societal structure years ago, but just didn't understand the complex damages the other way.

 

Seems no different today except 180° about face. Times change, but problems always exist!

[BillsFan692]

8 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

No, there's no reefer madness mentality here. I have lived in Colorado for decades, was for legalization, and believe that marijuana should be legal and regulated at the federal level.

But again: it's not a wholly benign drug (is any mood altering drug?), and there's plenty of evidence refuting the peaceful stoner stereotype. And anecdotally, I have seen many such examples. One good study:

https://jaapl.org/content/early/2021/12/10/JAAPL.210034-21#:~:text=Cannabis Use and Violent Criminal,Arseneault et al.

That study you link mentions scizophrenia and alcoholism but okay. Marijuana is a complex political issue in this country and believe me the medical establishment does not love its broad legalization so they will often gather bogus data points and publish 'cohort studies' like this one for political effect. As in: Don't legalize weed it'll make us all violent offenders! 

It's so easy to link stuff online and if it comes from an acronym association than it must be trusted and considered fact.  I know for a fact weed doesn't make people aggressive, but I could spend the rest of my life arguing with you about it while you link bogus studies like the ones above and we wont get anywhere. So think what you want to think but it is alcohol that is a much larger problem both for drug addicts and violent offenses.

Edited September 19, 2023 by BillsFan692

[rusty shackleford]

11 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Posted it above. Has it been 10 years!

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/buffalo-bills-fan-dead-ralph-wilson-stadium_n_2145501

 

I am not sure if they ever said what really happened?  Probably just died in drunken confusion in Smokes Creek.

Hard to believe it was 10 years ago already. I just remember when the story came out that it seemed like it was a simple case of someone drunk falling into water and not being able to get up. It got more complicated when his brother or whatever family was with him said that he doesn't drink at all and he got tossed for getting in an altercation with a group in the bathroom. Just a lot that didn't seem to add up from what was made public. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by rusty shackleford

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, rusty shackleford said:

Hard to believe it was 10 years ago already. I just remember when the story came out that it seemed like it was a simple case of someone drunk falling into water and not being able to get it. It got more complicated when his brother or whatever family was with him said that he doesn't drink at all and he got tossed for getting in an altercation with a group in the bathroom. Just a lot that didn't seem to add up from what was made public. 

Did Bills quietly pay out???

 

Is there a fence now? That's by the "MudLot", behind FieldHouse???

[Another Fan]

6 hours ago, CSBill said:

I'll be "get off my lawn guy" and say it: Alcohol ruins the fan experience for so many who just want to go and cheer and watch the game while a bunch of idiots get liquid courage and say and do stupid things that make it uncomfortable for so many people around them that have to endure the stupidity. It is not always like that, but unfortunately, it has been my experience more than not.

Agreed.

 

Ironically I hit the beer mug for your post but figured a trophy was more appropriate 😊

[BillsPride12]

Two separate points from me here:

 

1) What happened is a freaking tragedy and heartbreaking.  There is no excuse to put someone's life in danger over a football game.  Very sad reading about this today

 

2) I do have to disagree with a lot of the comments in this thread making it sound like things are at an all-time low attending Bills games these days behavior wise.  From my personal experience I feel like fan behavior is MUCH better than it was 10-15 years ago.  Outside of seeing the occasional hammered person who has just drank way too much I really haven't seen anything too bad happen in a long time...Going to games years ago I definitely witnessed fights and shenanigans on a regular basis.  I feel like maybe the price increases over the years have already weeded out a lot of the idiots from years past

Edited September 19, 2023 by BillsPride12

[rusty shackleford]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Did Bills quietly pay out???

 

Is there a fence now? That's by the "MudLot", behind FieldHouse???

I thought it was in the area that cuts through to the Wings lot. I know after that happened the Wings lot was forced to remove that metal bridge the made just a few years earlier that crossed the creek.

[rusty shackleford]

4 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

Two separate points from me here:

 

1) What happened is a freaking tragedy and heartbreaking.  There is no excuse to put someone's life in danger over a football game.  Very sad reading about this today

 

2) I do have to disagree with a lot of the comments in this thread making it sound like things are at an all-time low attending Bills games these days behavior wise.  From my personal experience I feel like fan behavior is MUCH better than it was 10-15 years ago.  Outside of seeing the occasional hammered person who has just drunk way too much I really haven't seen anything too bad happen in a long time...Going to games years ago I definitely witnessed fights and shenanigans on a regular basis.  I feel like maybe the price increases over the years have already weeded out a lot of the idiots from years past

On point #2, having a competitive team goes a long way there. I think there was such a high level of shenanigans during the drought years because there wasn't much to pay attention to on the field. Combine that with cheap tickets and people would go just for the tailgating and it would easily get out of hand.

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, rusty shackleford said:

I thought it was in the area that cuts through to the Wings lot. I know after that happened the Wings lot was forced to remove that metal bridge the made just a few years earlier that crossed the creek.

Yeah... I am not too sure. Haven't been there in a long time... I am probably getting crossed up. No doubt they made improvements!  Finding a dead guy in creek is no bueno!!  Even if they are a FlipperFan! 😕 Better one of them than us. 😉... J/K...

[AuntieEm]

5 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

All you have to do is not engage with some random drunk and you are fine.  

 

Also I do like to believe that here in Buffalo that there are Mafia that will look after any opposing fans that aren't trying to start trouble.  Obviously I could never claim that Buffalo doesn't have abundant drunk fans,  some which turn obnoxious no doubt.  We do have some serious tailgaters after all.   And many have retained their city of good neighbors ethos even while inebriated by tailgate,  they've built up a tolerance to alcohol that doesn't cancel their tolerance of opposing fans. So while I do prefer watching on TV it's also to do with my tolerance for colder weather.   

Edited September 19, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Paup 1995MVP]

12 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

Two separate points from me here:

 

1) What happened is a freaking tragedy and heartbreaking.  There is no excuse to put someone's life in danger over a football game.  Very sad reading about this today

 

2) I do have to disagree with a lot of the comments in this thread making it sound like things are at an all-time low attending Bills games these days behavior wise.  From my personal experience I feel like fan behavior is MUCH better than it was 10-15 years ago.  Outside of seeing the occasional hammered person who has just drank way too much I really haven't seen anything too bad happen in a long time...Going to games years ago I definitely witnessed fights and shenanigans on a regular basis.  I feel like maybe the price increases over the years have already weeded out a lot of the idiots from years past

In the 80's 90's and early 2000's there was tons of fights at the games, in the parking lots, everywhere.  It was drunken mayhem all around.  That was the Rich Stadium experience.  Especially when a heated rival came to town, like Jets Pats or Fins.  And of course the Raider gangster types.  I remember growing up in Buffalo and going out partying at the bars back in the 80's and early 90's, it was like that everywhere in the city back then.  The bouncers would kick your ass if you got out of line.  Its not like that for the most part in general anymore.  Society is just a lot tamer and not as rough.  But occasionally things can get out of hand.  Someone says something real rude to your lady or gets in your face, its gonna be on.  But its very unfortunate that a fan died.  

[SectionC3]

18 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

Two separate points from me here:

 

1) What happened is a freaking tragedy and heartbreaking.  There is no excuse to put someone's life in danger over a football game.  Very sad reading about this today

 

2) I do have to disagree with a lot of the comments in this thread making it sound like things are at an all-time low attending Bills games these days behavior wise.  From my personal experience I feel like fan behavior is MUCH better than it was 10-15 years ago.  Outside of seeing the occasional hammered person who has just drank way too much I really haven't seen anything too bad happen in a long time...Going to games years ago I definitely witnessed fights and shenanigans on a regular basis.  I feel like maybe the price increases over the years have already weeded out a lot of the idiots from years past

I agree with the second pint but I’ll add that there still is plenty of reprehensible behavior there.  

[Utah John]

11 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

People don't seem to realize that one single punch to someone's head can be fatal. I saw it during a softball game at Cobbs Hill in Rochester. Two guys got into it, and one punch later, one of them was dead. That's why I've never punched anyone since then, it really freaked me out. That was like 20 years ago. I know a few other non-fatal ways to de-escalate a situation. Thankfully I'm past that point in my life.....I think. Not to mention, I'm surrounded by the greatest Bills fans in my section that I could ever hope for. Never an issue. And I'm 4 rows behind Jim Kelly and family. Yeah, that's right, I'm that f'n special, lol. 

Well, who would want to take the chance that Jim Kelly would stand up and tell them to behave?  Of course that's a great section to sit in.

[Matt_In_NH]

5 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Also I do like to believe that here in Buffalo that there are Mafia that will look after any opposing fans that aren't trying to start trouble.

I have witnessed Bills fans being complete Dbags to fans of other teams.  Including throwing snowballs as fast as they can at Patriots fans heads.