To All You Dorsey/McD Haters What Say You Now ?

[Billsatlastin2018]

There are reasons to fire McClapper…

 

”13 Seconds comes to mind, your Honor!”

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Not down on either, but Dorsey's offense is looking much the same as last year. Even when they score a bunch of points they still look disjointed. There's no rhythm like there was with Daboll most of the time. As long as they win games, it's not a huge deal. I think it is a play calling style, though 

Strongly disagree.

 

The Bills had 3 TD drives yesterday that each went for over 6 minutes of game time. The longest was over 9 minutes. They picked up 29 first downs on 74ish plays. That's over a first down every 3rd play. After the 3 and out to start the game their drives consisted of 7, 8, 15, 9 and 11 play drives. That's rhythm. 

 

As far as the offense looking the same...are you ignoring the much higher percentage of 12 personal being run? Or the much higher rate of Allen going under center? The shorter "take what the D gives you" passing game vs last years deep balls for all offense? The actual usage of RBs and a few screens. This offense looks very little like last years IMO.

[T master]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

you’d think after 80 games, you wouldn’t need to keep re learning the same lessons. 
 

will be interesting to see how long it sticks 

 

Well possibly the best NFL - QB ever weather a Bills fan would like to admit it or not Tom Brady or TB 12 had 6 - 4 interception games in his career do you think he may have learned anything each time he had those games .

 

Also TB 12 lost 84 games in his career you think he may have learned anything from those games ? 251 wins in 23 years in the NFL 

 

Josh has a 52 W & 25 loss in his career he only has 59 more losses to tie TB 12's record for losses so only Josh has 52 wins in 5 seasons .

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Pretty sure I defended Dorsey and laid all the balme on Josh after week 1. I'm pretty sure over the offseason I was unsure how Dorsey would incorporate Kincaid but was open to see how it turned out.

 

As for McD I've been a perennial skeptic for years and only an AFC Championship will change my mind. Nothing against the human being. He seems like a fine person. Just still don't trust him when it really matters. To his credit he has found the right balance of being aggressive on offense. His time management is reasonable.  Just worried he will choke away victory again. 

 

So to answer the OP, nothing has changed for me.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

20 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Not down on either, but Dorsey's offense is looking much the same as last year. Even when they score a bunch of points they still look disjointed. There's no rhythm like there was with Daboll most of the time. As long as they win games, it's not a huge deal. I think it is a play calling style, though 

Wow I'm not sure how you came away from yesterday still thinking the offense was disjointed. Perhaps it was all the success they had running the ball which sometimes just means a 3 yard gain. 

It's still early and they will face better defenses but long sustained drives using multiple receivers and 3 backs is a recipe for success.  Add the fact all this running and dink and dunk goes on tape. Sooner or later the big play opportunity will come back as defenses try to commit to stopping the short stuff. What they put on take yesterday will pay dividends in weeks to  come.

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

Literally means nothing. His side of the ball has never been good when it counted. Awful at challenges/game management. Carried by Allen. We've won in spite of him more times than I can count 

I don’t have the stats in front of me, but the Bills have had a top 5 defense in most every metric for the last 3 years…Might just be me but that’s not bad…

[mrags]

I mean. We’re all Bills fans regardless. So we absolutely can jump up and down and cheer the TDs and the wins when they happen.
 

At the same time someone can be critical of what they believe this team can or should do. 
 

Most people, even if they were critical of McD and/or Dorsey, I’d imagine still believed this team would win at least 10 games if not more, regardless. 

and I’d say maybe you should take your own advice and just wait and see how things shake out. It’s a long season. Plenty of rhinos could happen. They could lost the next 5 games in a row and how would that look? Or… they could go all the way to the Super Bowl and lose it in another .13 seconds like scenario and we’d all likely be all over the coaching staff. 
 

bottom line, it’s a long season. I’m sure even those that are not optimistic over this coaching staff would agree that they want them to succeed no matter what. 

 

[Joe Ferguson]

I'm not sold on McD. He will still get a brain fart in the post season. It happened the last 3 years now.

[FireChans]

53 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Strongly disagree.

 

The Bills had 3 TD drives yesterday that each went for over 6 minutes of game time. The longest was over 9 minutes. They picked up 29 first downs on 74ish plays. That's over a first down every 3rd play. After the 3 and out to start the game their drives consisted of 7, 8, 15, 9 and 11 play drives. That's rhythm. 

 

As far as the offense looking the same...are you ignoring the much higher percentage of 12 personal being run? Or the much higher rate of Allen going under center? The shorter "take what the D gives you" passing game vs last years deep balls for all offense? The actual usage of RBs and a few screens. This offense looks very little like last years IMO.

It’s not really 12 personnel if Kincaid is split out in the slot. It’s the same as 11, just with a guy called a TE out there.

Edited September 19, 2023 by FireChans

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

I thought I could come here to avoid all those arrogant “where all you haters now?” posts that inundate the low IQ Facebook Mafia groups. Sadly I was mistaken. 

[BigDingus]

McDermott has called 2 great defensive games so far, and I'm really liking what we're doing. 

 

There are still areas that could improve (pass rush accounted for 0 sacks again this week), but can't complain when you hold opposing offenses to 16 & 10 points. 

[Freddie's Dead]

The team wasted two TOs in the 2nd half because they didn't hustle to the line.  Another poster pointed out that McD could have challenged the spot on a Damien Harris 3rd down run on the goal line, since he used a timeout anyway.  Small mistakes, but luckily they didn't cost us anything.

 

Bottom line is that only a Super Bowl win will erase the stank of the Houston 2nd half, 13 seconds, and the utter failure against the Bengals.  I'm on record, McD will not get us there.  I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Strongly disagree.

 

The Bills had 3 TD drives yesterday that each went for over 6 minutes of game time. The longest was over 9 minutes. They picked up 29 first downs on 74ish plays. That's over a first down every 3rd play. After the 3 and out to start the game their drives consisted of 7, 8, 15, 9 and 11 play drives. That's rhythm. 

 

As far as the offense looking the same...are you ignoring the much higher percentage of 12 personal being run? Or the much higher rate of Allen going under center? The shorter "take what the D gives you" passing game vs last years deep balls for all offense? The actual usage of RBs and a few screens. This offense looks very little like last years IMO.

That's not rhythm. Rhythm is timing and methodical gains. It's an aspect of play calling.

 

Like I said, I like the points being scored. I love the two TE sets. But I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm talking about the rhythm of the offense.

 

It's had a very different feel to it with Dorsey and it's possible that having wonky rhythm leads to more turnovers. But they still score a ton of points, I think it was still a top 3 offense last year? However, in close games I think the lack of rhythm doesn't help.

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Wow I'm not sure how you came away from yesterday still thinking the offense was disjointed. Perhaps it was all the success they had running the ball which sometimes just means a 3 yard gain. 

It's still early and they will face better defenses but long sustained drives using multiple receivers and 3 backs is a recipe for success.  Add the fact all this running and dink and dunk goes on tape. Sooner or later the big play opportunity will come back as defenses try to commit to stopping the short stuff. What they put on take yesterday will pay dividends in weeks to  come.

I think people are not understanding what rhythm means in regards to play calling.

[cgg716]

2 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

I don’t have the stats in front of me, but the Bills have had a top 5 defense in most every metric for the last 3 years…Might just be me but that’s not bad…

And every single big game they get cooked. KC HOU and the Bengals in the playoffs just to name a few. I don't care how many times they stop mac Jones. If the offense doesn't put teams in quick holes, our D never bails them out. 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, T master said:

So after the Jets game & even before that there were those here that wanted to fire McD, Dorsey, & start all over they said that the Bills would never win anything with McD & that Dorsey wasn't the answer also that Josh wasn't the QB he use to be !

 

 

 

It was only a few nuts and fruits going that far. 

 

Few said get rid of them, plenty said they sucked.

 

The true haters and overreactors will wait quietly or the next chance and wildly overreact and hate again. It's their nature.

 

[Dr.Sack]

I felt it would mostly be solved with Josh taking checkdowns and getting to them quicker. 

[Thurman#1]

31 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

And every single big game they get cooked. KC HOU and the Bengals in the playoffs just to name a few. I don't care how many times they stop mac Jones. If the offense doesn't put teams in quick holes, our D never bails them out. 

 

 

Sorry, man, just flat-out untrue.

 

"every" big game? Just a dumb lie.

 

Season games aganst KC are huge games. So were all the playoff games they've won last few years.

 

So that's just dumb, said for effect.

 

Yes, they haven't won a Super Bowl. That puts them, each year, in the same boat with 31 other teams.

 

35 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

That's not rhythm. Rhythm is timing and methodical gains. It's an aspect of play calling.

 

Like I said, I like the points being scored. I love the two TE sets. But I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm talking about the rhythm of the offense.

 

It's had a very different feel to it with Dorsey and it's possible that having wonky rhythm leads to more turnovers. But they still score a ton of points, I think it was still a top 3 offense last year? However, in close games I think the lack of rhythm doesn't help.

I think people are not understanding what rhythm means in regards to play calling.

 

 

That's because rhythm is subjective.

 

People generally start talking about rhythm when a team is successful. It doesn't really mean anything much more than successful with consistency.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Thurman#1

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

That's because rhythm is subjective.

 

People generally start talking about rhythm when a team is successful. It doesn't really mean anything much more than successful with consistency.

I think there are metrics that can be used to measure rhythm, like a QBs release time, drive time, play clock management, etc. I don't think it's totally subjective and could be analyzed.

 

Rhythm doesn't determine overall success, but I'm sure it helps in the microscale game situations that contribute to wins and losses for the offense.

[cgg716]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sorry, man, just flat-out untrue.

 

"every" big game? Just a dumb lie.

 

Season games aganst KC are huge games. So were all the playoff games they've won last few years.

 

So that's just dumb, said for effect.

 

Yes, they haven't won a Super Bowl. That puts them, each year, in the same boat with 31 other teams.

 

 

That's because rhythm is subjective.

 

People generally start talking about rhythm when a team is successful. It doesn't really mean anything much more than successful with consistency.

The only playoff games they won where the D played well were Baltimore and NE. And NE was more of a case of a bumrush by the offense, kinda like yesterday.  Awful against the Colts in a W, and utterly lifeless more times than I can count in regular season games. To boot completely unable to stop the run, year after year, and the earmarks of this year being even worse in that regard are thrre

[PBF81]

Let's wait till the playoffs before we finalize any judgements.

 

We all have our suspicions one way or another.  

 

It'll work out, or it won't.  Super Bowl parade, we'll all be happy.  Early loss, we won't be.  

 

Pretty simple.