A Few Thoughts about the Raiders Game, in no particular order

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, boyst said:

Was it brought up a lot that we used a lot of sets with 3 tight ends?

 

Just looking at the snap counts, we can't have used that many 3 TE sets?

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just looking at the snap counts, we can't have used that many 3 TE sets?

I noticed it definitively at least 3 times. 

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, Virgil said:

I don’t know that I could do it monosyllabic 

BILLS PLAY GUD.  JOSH PLAY GUD. MILANO SMASH AND CATCH BALL GUD.

[Beck Water]

Great writeup, as often, Virgil.

 

You touched on a lot of positive points I took from that game.  Super optimistic about many things - the run game, the patience displayed by Josh (most of the time), the performance of Terrell Bernard, the run defense, the pass rush, the better performance by the OL in both run blocking and pass pro

 

And you touched on a number of my caveats:

 

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

1 - ........The Raiders defense isn't the Jets and we had the lead midway though the 2nd quarter, so there was no need to press.  So, for me, this doesn't mean all is forgiven.  I've been as big a Josh fan as anyone.  I have 5 different jerseys for Josh and appreciate he's the best thing to happen to WNY in over 20 years.  But with that, comes a much higher expectation.  I still need to see Josh keep calm under pressure, when losing, or when the team isn't rallying around him.  If we want that ring, I need to see him be that guy consistently.  We need 13 seconds Josh.  The Raiders game was a good step in that direction and showed that Josh didn't feel like he had to come out an prove a point that Superman Josh is the only way to win.

 

 

6 - Red Zone - Again, this is going to sound negative for a team that scored 38 points and was 75% in the red zone, but did anyone else feel like we made it a lot harder on ourselves than we needed to?  Granted, most of our goal line drives started around the 10, which is a fair consideration.  With that, the Davis and Shakir TD's weren't exactly easy, and the missed touchdown seemed way more complicated than it needed to be.  I get it, gimmick plays and misdirection are great if they work, and stupid if they don't.  But it does feel like we are behind the curve here still.

 

One of the things that bothered me about last week vs. Jets, we had a 13-3 lead at the half and 10-3 midway through the 2nd Q.  While one doesn't want to take one's foot off the gas, with a lead, there was no need to 'press" or be Superman, except perhaps to impress the Madden junkies.  But the Jets defense was fierce to us, and frustrating - the Raiders defense was 'meh' last season despite Maxx Crosby, and so far it looks "meh" this season.

 

I, too, would like to see a performance like this from Josh against one of the league's best defenses or, a defense that is very familiar with us and can frustrate Josh.

 

And I, too, felt that we still have work to do on that red zone offense that did not measure up last season. 

 

I do not want to see us as the Cowboys, winning 30-10 but with 15 of those points off field goals because they couldn't punch it in.  I think that works when you're playing a team that pulled its former 1st round QB off the bench and that gift-wrapped turnovers to you 4x, but maybe it doesn't work so well when you're facing an elite offense.

 

Of course, we are not the Cowboys, we scored 5 TD to 1 FG, punted once, and only TOD once.  But I'm with you, I felt we should have scored 7 TD and TOD neveh, so Future Goals.

 

42 minutes ago, boyst said:

I noticed it definitively at least 3 times. 

 

I can 100% see it a handful of times.  3-5 say.

[Poleshifter]

One nice surprise for me was the Damien Harris kickoff return. I didn’t know he was in the mix for that.

 

Thanks, Virgil, for the write up.

 

[GottaRun]

I was at the game and just got back to thinking about one play where Josh seemed to float behind the line for a good 8 seconds before releasing the ball, he was slowly moving to his right the whole time.  At the time I was ticked off that no one became open in a good 8 seconds, but just now I'm realizing that Josh had a good 8 seconds where the line fully protected him.  That is huge.  Checking now and I see that Spencer Brown and O’Cyrus Torrence played 100% of the snaps.  Do we finally have a decent O line?

Edited September 18, 2023 by GottaRun

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I felt that was him have fun with his college Team mate and nothing more. An indulgence they both laughed about

 

Please tell me you're joking.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

Growing up as a kid, you remember those moments where your parents saying they were disappointed in you was sometimes worse than any real punishment.  Until I had a kid of my own, I always wondered if that was an intention form of mind game that parents did when they realized standard punishment wasn't getting the job done.  As my daughter gets older, and her actions and behaviors become more intentional, I see more and more what she's capable of, versus when she is just figuring out life.  With that, your expectations as a parent changes and you know when to be supportive versus critical.  You learn when to let them fail, push them, or challenge them on decisions.  It's an interesting dynamic that leads to you making the same comments to your kid that you hated when you were younger of "you'll understand when you are older."

 

1 - Conservative Josh - If you could write a script for what you needed to see from Josh after what was arguably his worst game as an NFL star, the Raiders game was it.  It started with an opening drive that was so vanilla, that I almost wonder if it wasn't called intentionally to make sure Josh understood the message for the game.  After the game, Josh made comments that showed he was very aware of the social commentary from last week and almost felt like a frustrated "can we move past this now" kind of statement.  Josh had a TD to Shakir that made me audibly gasp, but was pretty tame for the rest of the game.  Now, by tame, I mean he didn't have his normal Superman plays or moments where you held your breath because Josh might hurt himself.  He did have one hurdle, that ended with a smile and a helmet grab, but I'll let that one slide.  Instead, Josh played a game with a high completion percentage, waited for the defense to adjust to his play while also fearing what he's capable of, and went on to beat down an inferior team.  The Raiders defense isn't the Jets and we had the lead midway though the 2nd quarter, so there was no need to press.  So, for me, this doesn't mean all is forgiven.  I've been as big a Josh fan as anyone.  I have 5 different jerseys for Josh and appreciate he's the best thing to happen to WNY in over 20 years.  But with that, comes a much higher expectation.  I still need to see Josh keep calm under pressure, when losing, or when the team isn't rallying around him.  If we want that ring, I need to see him be that guy consistently.  We need 13 seconds Josh.  The Raiders game was a good step in that direction and showed that Josh didn't feel like he had to come out an prove a point that Superman Josh is the only way to win.

 

2 - What's a good rotation? - I can't believe I'm going to say this because I hate rotations at positions.  I feel like NFL players need to find their groove and big rotations take up active roster spots on game days.  Also, I don't want to come off like Cook didn't have a great day yesterday, because he absolutely did.  But man, the acceleration that Murray showed behind the line and the power getting low that Harris showed was really impressive yesterday.  I don't know what the answer is here, but I wanted to see more of Murray yesterday.  I almost feel like should use Harris at the goal line (which they did), but rotate Cook and Murray 2-1, with Cook still being the 3rd down back on Murray's series.  We have a very diverse half back room, and I love it.  I almost would like to see Murray out there with Cook, maybe as a blocker from time to time.  Just really give the opposing defense some looks.  Either way, this might be our best running back group in quite a while.

 

3 - Middle zone defense - Before the game was in hand, the Raiders had a few passes to the middle of the field, right where a certain MLB use to cover, and I remember thinking it was going to be a long day.  However, after those first two drives, I never though about it again.  I'm not here to say that Bernard is the answer.  Bernard had a great interception that I initially thought was Benford (Bernard is that small), and overall has done a solid job in not making me think about his existence out there.  That's not meant to be an insult, but if you aren't going to be a super star, the next best compliment I can give is that you didn't do anything to be a liability.  Long story short, through two games, do we really feel like we miss Edmunds?  We still have a long way to go and I know McD is handling that area of the field in a variety of ways, but so far, so good to me.  

 

4 - Yeah, I'm goin' back to that shack way across that railroad track,

Uh huh, that's where I think I belong.

And that's where I'm gonna make my happy home.

 

5 - Scripted plays - Remember the old Malarkey days when we would score every single time to open a game?  Of course, we couldn't score after that to save our lives, but it was still a cool streak.  The Raiders absolutely crushed us with their scripted plays on the first two drives, creating that uneasy feeling for me on the couch.  Most of the plays were some form of misdirection, that also make me worry that we were out of position and not prepare for this game.  Now, that all went away after that second drive and life was good.  But I feel like the scripted plays, at the start of both halves, is not something that Dorsey has figured out yet.  We've had two sluggish starts so far, and I'm really hoping this is something we can turn around with the difficult schedule we have coming up.

 

6 - Red Zone - Again, this is going to sound negative for a team that scored 38 points and was 75% in the red zone, but did anyone else feel like we made it a lot harder on ourselves than we needed to?  Granted, most of our goal line drives started around the 10, which is a fair consideration.  With that, the Davis and Shakir TD's weren't exactly easy, and the missed touchdown seemed way more complicated than it needed to be.  I get it, gimmick plays and misdirection are great if they work, and stupid if they don't.  But it does feel like we are behind the curve here still.

 

7 - Defensive Line - It only took 6 years, but do we finally have the defensive line we've been waiting for under McD?  Floyd is an absolute monster.  Groot is starting to live up to his first round status.  Oliver hasn't gotten home yet, but you can see the impact.  McD even has them running stunts!  While it may not show up in the stat column for sacks, our pass rush has been fantastic so far, and we don't even have Von back.  The only thing I found surprising was AJ out there instead of Groot on some obvious passing third downs.  AJ did great, just wasn't what I was expecting.  If you had to make a list of the positions that win championships, I would argue that getting pressure with your front four is in the top 3 and we are nailing it so far.  Our line was the third best part of this game to me.

 

8 - 3rd quarter close out - I know I just talked about our lack of scripted plays, also referring to how we come out in the second half, as an opportunity.  However, I have to give credit for the 3rd quarter drive that sucked up half the clock.  You want to talk about imposing our will?  That drive was painful if you're a Raiders fan and I would argue led to Cook's big rush to end the game.  We absolutely gassed the Raiders defense in a way that we haven't seen here in a long time. There's been moments of it over the years, but this felt more intentional and well within our capacities as an offense.  Doing this against a Cincy, KC, or Miami team will be huge for us.  Keeps the other offense off the field, kills the clock and morale.  That drive might was the second best part of this game for me.  

 

9 - Rush Defense - Now for the real MVP of this game.  Listening to the pregame report, the Raiders ran more 21 personnel than any other team in week one and they brought with them the 2022 rushing champ.  We held him to negative yards.  Let that sink it.  The Bills defense held the best running back in the league last season to negative yards in this game.  No Edmunds, down early, and heavy packages galore, and McD and the defense all showed up.  That is a message sent to the entire league and something I hope our guys take a lot of pride in. 

 

10 - Milano - I'm really hoping Milano doesn't get randomly drug tested or we find out that someone John Wick'd his dog.  Milano is playing like an angry, angry man out there.  That wasn't just another interception Milano had.  That was a man who was willing to rip the head off another player to get an interception.  I mean, c'mon now.  If you can't get excited about that interception, you might want to check your pulse.  Milano is playing like a man possessed out there and I love it.  I'm already a Milano homer, but he has really stepped it up a level this so far.  I can't wait to see his final season stat line at this rate.

 

 

Overall, good game against a sub .500 team, but a needed performance by many.  I expect the same next week before Miami comes to town.  I'm very curious to see if Elam gets activated for that game, as he is truly our fastest DB and can somewhat keep up with Waddle or Hill.  Either way, should be fun.

Go Bills!

the front 4 was incredible against the run…. Ends and tackles both. You could play small dime the whole game when  the front 4 plays like that. 

[SoTier]

50 minutes ago, GottaRun said:

I was at the game and just got back to thinking about one play where Josh seemed to float behind the line for a good 8 seconds before releasing the ball, he was slowly moving to his right the whole time.  At the time I was ticked off that no one became open in a good 8 seconds, but just now I'm realizing that Josh had a good 8 seconds where the line fully protected him.  That is huge.  Checking now and I see that Spencer Brown and O’Cyrus Torrence played 100% of the snaps.  Do we finally have a decent O line?

 

I think we do, too.   There's been lots of complaints about the OTs this off/preseason, but the improvement of the interior OL helps the OTs be more effective.   If you look around the league, you realize that the best OLs aren't filled with 5 Pro Bowl caliber players but rather maybe 1 really good/great player with solid guys around him.  IOW, good OLs are better than the sum of their parts.  Hopefully, that's what the Bills have in their OL.

Edited September 19, 2023 by SoTier

[John from Riverside]

Milanos is an absolute stud
 

Having said that, if anything ever happens to him, I still feel good because the linebacker that they drafted this year that’s backing him up is an absolute stud

[BRH]

46 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Please tell me you're joking.

They did laugh about it.  
 

I’m fine with it.  It IS a GAME, after all.  If you’re not having fun, why play?

 

I might feel differently if he got hurt or we lost, of course.

[Heathcliff]

Seeing your write up this evening made me smile Virgil! Great as always.
 

Per Spenser Brown we have a new calling for our great LB -  “you’ve been Milanoed”. 

[3rdand12]

22 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Please tell me you're joking.

im not
There was no way he was going over him. And his buddy could have crippled him.

They patted helmets if i recall correctly

22 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

the front 4 was incredible against the run…. Ends and tackles both. You could play small dime the whole game when  the front 4 plays like that. 

Poona drew doubles and still got push nearly all of his 16 or so snaps.

Did not notice Settle who played similar amount. Could tell it was Poona by how he wore the jersey

Bad tv angle for seeing #s at LOS again

21 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I think we do, too.   There's been lots of complaints about the OTs this off/preseason, but the improvement of the interior OL helps the OTs be more effective.   If you look around the league, you realize that the best OLs aren't filled with 5 Pro Bowl caliber players but rather maybe 1 really good/great player with solid guys around him.  IOW, good OLs are better than the sum of their parts.  Hopefully, that's what the Bills have in their OL.

And a center/QB who can put them in the right protections plays.

 

Very hopeful they just improve as the season goes along 😇

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:38 PM, 3rdand12 said:

I felt that was him have fun with his college Team mate and nothing more. An indulgence they both laughed about

 

 

Had the same thought.. he was laughing about it as he was in the air. I bet he told him pregame he was going to hurdle him or something, then gave him a face mask of jock…. 

[NickelCity]

On 9/18/2023 at 9:49 AM, hondo in seattle said:

I've been criticizing the OL for, well, much of my long life.  Yesterday, the backs had more room than I'm accustomed to seeing.  That was great to see.  

 

And I really liked the way Dorsey mixed up formations, personnel groups, and plays.  

 

 

 

The line play was the crux to yesterday. Be interesting to see it against teams with more than one good DLinemen, going forward.

[AuntieEm]

On 9/18/2023 at 12:22 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Consistently throwing short of the sticks is conservative.

Except when you do it deliberately to wear out the defense and leave their offense little time to score enough to get close to make it a game. That's telling another team we take what we want  try to stop it.

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Had the same thought.. he was laughing about it as he was in the air. I bet he told him pregame he was going to hurdle him or something, then gave him a face mask of jock…. 

After the play , that's kinda what i suspected as well. Good fun in the moment

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

 

The line play was the crux to yesterday. Be interesting to see it against teams with more than one good DLinemen, going forward.

Both sides of the ball.

 Build on it !

38 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Except when you do it deliberately to wear out the defense and leave their offense little time to score enough to get close to make it a game. That's telling another team we take what we want  try to stop it.

Okay

 You get it,

👍

[AuntieEm]

20 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Okay

 You get it,

👍

 I got it last year.  What really matters is that Josh gets it and it certainly nice to have a 3 headed hydra as our rb room.  

 

I once was hoping Dorsey would put in elements of the no huddle, but honestly the 8 min drive to eat away the opportunity for any rally was even more fun to watch than some of those 90s games.  And those were a pleasure to watch, but these guys just a tad more fun to watch.

[SoTier]

On 9/18/2023 at 12:49 PM, hondo in seattle said:

I've been criticizing the OL for, well, much of my long life.  Yesterday, the backs had more room than I'm accustomed to seeing.  That was great to see.  

 

And I really liked the way Dorsey mixed up formations, personnel groups, and plays.  

 

 

 

Me, too.  I can't remember a game in which all the Bills RBs so consistently having space to run,  probably since Wade Phillips was HC!  Individual RBs were successful largely because of their superior talent like Willis McGahee and Marshawn Lynch, both of whom went on to be Pro Bowlers and help their new teams to the playoffs.  McGahee was on both the Broncos and the Ravens playoff teams.  Lynch was an All Pro and won a Lombardi with the Seahawks.

[AuntieEm]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:45 PM, Beck Water said:

Great writeup, as often, Virgil.

 

You touched on a lot of positive points I took from that game.  Super optimistic about many things - the run game, the patience displayed by Josh (most of the time), the performance of Terrell Bernard, the run defense, the pass rush, the better performance by the OL in both run blocking and pass pro

 

And you touched on a number of my caveats:

 

 

One of the things that bothered me about last week vs. Jets, we had a 13-3 lead at the half and 10-3 midway through the 2nd Q.  While one doesn't want to take one's foot off the gas, with a lead, there was no need to 'press" or be Superman, except perhaps to impress the Madden junkies.  But the Jets defense was fierce to us, and frustrating - the Raiders defense was 'meh' last season despite Maxx Crosby, and so far it looks "meh" this season.

 

I, too, would like to see a performance like this from Josh against one of the league's best defenses or, a defense that is very familiar with us and can frustrate Josh.

 

And I, too, felt that we still have work to do on that red zone offense that did not measure up last season. 

 

I do not want to see us as the Cowboys, winning 30-10 but with 15 of those points off field goals because they couldn't punch it in.  I think that works when you're playing a team that pulled its former 1st round QB off the bench and that gift-wrapped turnovers to you 4x, but maybe it doesn't work so well when you're facing an elite offense.

 

Of course, we are not the Cowboys, we scored 5 TD to 1 FG, punted once, and only TOD once.  But I'm with you, I felt we should have scored 7 TD and TOD neveh, so Future Goals.

 

 

I can 100% see it a handful of times.  3-5 say.

Well it did take over 60 yrs if Bills football  to get one qb playing a perfect game so I'm willing to let Josh take a few more games till he gets his next one.