Singular point imo when Josh started regressing

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

No doubt the 2-3 terrible throws into double coverage and the panic double fumble lost the game. 

 

I haven't watched the All 22, but I'm not certain how open players other than Diggs were all game. 

 

To me it seemed like there were a lot of lazy routes from guys that didn't seem to think they were getting the ball. 

 

There were plenty of open guys. Honestly. Diggs wasn't actually open that much because as soon as he edged towards a defender's zone, that defender was on him. There were plays where Diggs was triple covered.

 

That isn't to say that the wide receiver were perfect by any means.... but the Bills had open receivers in the short and intermediate zones plenty on Monday. Josh just wasn't throwing to them.

[DrDawkinstein]

If I'm going full conspiracy theory, then I'm looking at the week BEFORE the Packers game. The Bye week.

 

Josh had a big Halloween party at his place Saturday night of the Bye.. Practically the entire team was there.

 

Something happened at that party that changed the course of the team.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

If I'm going full conspiracy theory, then I'm looking at the week BEFORE the Packers game. The Bye week.

 

Josh had a big Halloween party at his place Saturday night of the Bye.. Practically the entire team was there.

 

Something happened at that party that changed the course of the team.

 

That is rumoured to be where Brit confronted him about the alleged affair in front of teammates, right? 

 

I don't know how true any of that way but that was the timing rumoured in that thread. It was at the Halloween Party.

[BananaB]

How about shortly after our proven players left and we started gambling with our WRs outside of Diggs. Beas, Sanders and Brown were all proven, we knew what we’d get out of them and for the most part they were easily trusted. I understand Gabe and McKenzie deserved a shot but it didn’t worked out as expected. You think it would be lesson learned. Then instead of trying to grab guys we know can help we gambled on other guys and doubled down on Gabe. To be honest I’d rather a player who done it consistently before and another late round draft pick on the roster the Sherfield and Harty. Adding a 5’6 WR who might just be a gadget guy seems to be a luxury addition if you don’t have many problems. Kind of like trading for an undersized RB mid season when it’s obvious you need a bruiser. 

[Success]

3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

How about shortly after our proven players left and we started gambling with our WRs outside of Diggs. Beas, Sanders and Brown were all proven, we knew what we’d get out of them and for the most part they were easily trusted. I understand Gabe and McKenzie deserved a shot but it didn’t worked out as expected. You think it would be lesson learned. Then instead of trying to grab guys we know can help we gambled on other guys and doubled down on Gabe. To be honest I’d rather a player who done it consistently before and another late round draft pick on the roster the Sherfield and Harty. Adding a 5’6 WR who might just be a gadget guy seems to be a luxury addition if you don’t have many problems. Kind of like trading for an undersized RB mid season when it’s obvious you need a bruiser. 

 

The WR corps is fine.  Other great QB's have won titles with less.

 

The issue in the 1st week was more the decision-making.  

 

[Low Positive]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is rumoured to be where Brit confronted him about the alleged affair in front of teammates, right? 

 

I don't know how true any of that way but that was the timing rumoured in that thread. It was at the Halloween Party.

That simply cannot be true. That story is worth too much to the likes of TMZ for it to not be public by now. I never believe in any conspiracy where lots of people are keeping a secret that would be worth a lot of money. And anyway, if this is causing Josh to lose focus, he's too mentally weak to be an NFL QB. Brady broke up with Bridget Moynahan in December 2006 and went 16-0 in the 2007 NFL regular season.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, finn said:

I'm not saying he should only throw deep. I'm saying he can't throw deep (without turnovers or sacks) because Beane hasn't given him the weapons or the protection he needs to do so. As for running, he can't be as reckless as he has been, but designed runs and scrambles that end with a slide should remain a key part of his arsenal.

 

Teams can take away the deep ball because Beane has given Allen only one receiver and they can pressure Allen instantly because Beane has been fine with mediocrities like Brown and Saffold. And the don't have to worry about his incredibly effective scrambling now because McDermott has now taken that off the table, unilaterally. 

 

I stand by what I said: Beane and McDermott don't understand what they have in Allen. They're playing to his weaknesses and neglecting or even discouraging his strengths. And we're seeing the result: cognitive (and physical) dissonance. 

They understand, but want him to have a long and successful career.  They’re OK with calling runs but he has to slide and he doesn’t too many times.  He can scramble, just get out of bounds or slide.  And I’m sorry, but if you haven’t seen the number of long passes he’s completed to both Diggs and  Davis the past several years then I’m not sure what team you’ve been watching.

 

They are taking away the deep ball not because of our receiver’s deficiencies, but because they think Josh will eventually make a mistake and force it into coverage.  We all love Josh but he has room to improve.  We love his competitiveness, but guys like Brady and Manning were as competitive as any guys who ever played and they were all time greats because they mixed physical talent with smarts.  Josh is maybe the most physically talented guy ever but still needs to learn to play smarter.

[BananaB]

7 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The WR corps is fine.  Other great QB's have won titles with less.

 

The issue in the 1st week was more the decision-making.  

 

Until the WRs prove themselves you can’t say they’re fine. Gabe has proven to be inconsistent, adding someone we know we can rely on would probably helped him. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Put Josh under center way more often and it will solve nearly all of the offensive problems

 

Things will become simplified under center not to mention improve the run game and play action. Also he will likely know when he can improvise quicker if his first couple reads are covered 

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

That simply cannot be true. That story is worth too much to the likes of TMZ for it to not be public by now. I never believe in any conspiracy where lots of people are keeping a secret that would be worth a lot of money. And anyway, if this is causing Josh to lose focus, he's too mentally weak to be an NFL QB. Brady broke up with Bridget Moynahan in December 2006 and went 16-0 in the 2007 NFL regular season.

 

Yea I took all the offseason stuff with a pinch of salt. I only mention 'cos @DrDawkinstein mentioned the Halloween party. 

[finn]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They understand, but want him to have a long and successful career.  They’re OK with calling runs but he has to slide and he doesn’t too many times.  He can scramble, just get out of bounds or slide.  And I’m sorry, but if you haven’t seen the number of long passes he’s completed to both Diggs and  Davis the past several years then I’m not sure what team you’ve been watching.

 

They are taking away the deep ball not because of our receiver’s deficiencies, but because they think Josh will eventually make a mistake and force it into coverage.  We all love Josh but he has room to improve.  We love his competitiveness, but guys like Brady and Manning were as competitive as any guys who ever played and they were all time greats because they mixed physical talent with smarts.  Josh is maybe the most physically talented guy ever but still needs to learn to play smarter.

Agreed he has to play smarter. No question. But I would argue that those spectacular long balls to Davis would be double or triple in number if Davis was a true WR2--OR if Allen's protection were as good as Mahomes'. 

 

I'm overstating the case a bit, but the bottom line is that I think Beane would have done better securing an elite O-line and set of receivers for Allen than invest so much in the defense. I would trade a KC-quality line and a Bengals-quality WR corps for a weaker overall defense, wouldn't you? 

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, finn said:

Agreed he has to play smarter. No question. But I would argue that those spectacular long balls to Davis would be double or triple in number if Davis was a true WR2--OR if Allen's protection were as good as Mahomes'. 

 

I'm overstating the case a bit, but the bottom line is that I think Beane would have done better securing an elite O-line and set of receivers for Allen than invest so much in the defense. I would trade a KC-quality line and a Bengals-quality WR corps for a weaker overall defense, wouldn't you? 

I am always a proponent of building things up front.  Drafting Torrence was good, McGovern will be an upgrade.  I am not as negative on Brown as many but he needs to improve.  I would be looking at Bates for Morse; Morse gets bull rushed by big DTs.  
 

Cincy has one more year with those WRs but with Burrow’s new contract they won’t be able to afford it anymore.  When you find your great QB and have to pay him then that star QB has to make guys around him better.  You likely can afford one real star receiver.  Mahomes has Kelce, we have Diggs, Burrow will have Chase.  The Niners have done things differently having non-star QBs that can work in Shanahan’s system and allow $$ to be spent elsewhere.

Edited September 16, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, finn said:

Agreed he has to play smarter. No question. But I would argue that those spectacular long balls to Davis would be double or triple in number if Davis was a true WR2--OR if Allen's protection were as good as Mahomes'. 

 

I'm overstating the case a bit, but the bottom line is that I think Beane would have done better securing an elite O-line and set of receivers for Allen than invest so much in the defense. I would trade a KC-quality line and a Bengals-quality WR corps for a weaker overall defense, wouldn't you? 

I agree that the Bills needed to find a better #2 WR, but Chase and Higgins cannot be the standard. The Bengals WR room is only possible when everyone but the #3 is on a rookie contract. Now that they've had to pay Joe Burrow, something will have to give because they have to pay both WRs. Same thing in Miami. If Tua gets paid, they still have to pay Waddle and they're up against the cap. In retrospect, paying Von Miller that much money was a mistake, but we were coming off of the 13-second game where we couldn't lay a hand on Mahomes. It did seem like we were a pass rusher away. 

[DrDawkinstein]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is rumoured to be where Brit confronted him about the alleged affair in front of teammates, right? 

 

I don't know how true any of that way but that was the timing rumoured in that thread. It was at the Halloween Party.

 

25 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

That simply cannot be true. That story is worth too much to the likes of TMZ for it to not be public by now. I never believe in any conspiracy where lots of people are keeping a secret that would be worth a lot of money. And anyway, if this is causing Josh to lose focus, he's too mentally weak to be an NFL QB. Brady broke up with Bridget Moynahan in December 2006 and went 16-0 in the 2007 NFL regular season.

 

Yeah I dont know. I was mostly joking since there were so many pics from that party.

 

I dont buy into even 1% of that entire affair story.

[1ManRaid]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

I believe it was late in the 2nd half against the Packers prime time.  Diggs was on tilt pregame, Pack CB got in his head.  Hard hitting game.

 

Josh is attempting to score and gets hit hard by Packers defender.  In live time, I thought Josh got hurt.  Josh jumped up and said “I love this *****!”

 

2nd half against Pack, Josh and the offense sputtered.  Ever since that hit, most everything Bills attempt on offense looks ineffective.  For 2021 and 2022 first 5 games, Josh and the offense have been were on fire.  What happened?

 

I read Jacksonville was playing 2 Top against us in that baffling 9-6 loss 

 

For the record, the RT for the Jags was the same one who is now in the news about cheating for the Chiefs.  And yes, he was doing it just as bad back then.

 

5 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Yeh see his December 18th performance against the Fins to clinch the division where any qb that isn’t him loses that game.

The book on Josh is simple two of his three ints where because he was playing hero ball where in the past he would have scrambled for first downs he    was heaving it into double coverage. 
 

Teams are simply not going to give the bills the home run throw anymore. Even if it means a safety having to play centerfield every snap. This gets Josh frustrated and he doesn’t have the kinda receivers that when he does this can make a contested catch they are little mites out there. 

 

Gotta learn from the way Tua and the Fish took what the Chargers were giving them.  They were for some reason happy to give Tua his strength of throwing over the middle, until they panicked and started crashing the middle only to leave Hill open down the sidelines for easy TDs.

 

But as for our receivers being little mites who can't make contested catches?  Huh?  Diggs is no giant but he makes contested catches all the time.  Davis is a big boy who also makes them.  Then there's our tight ends, plenty of guys you must be confusing with our slot receivers.

[Radar]

Just as a reminder we've played one game. Monday night Josh was bad but can we give him a few more games please. 

[Big Blitz]

45 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If I'm going full conspiracy theory, then I'm looking at the week BEFORE the Packers game. The Bye week.

 

Josh had a big Halloween party at his place Saturday night of the Bye.. Practically the entire team was there.

 

Something happened at that party that changed the course of the team.

 

Nah they all were posting and sharing the pics from that party and talk about it fondly.  
 

 

 

It’s this: 

 

Dorsey has been figured out.  Davis is not evolving or becoming an elite 2.  No slot WR worth a ***t.  Still no real RB threat.  Oline complete disaster last year.  Josh got hurt. 
 

 

 

Meanwhile, around the AFC:

 

Burrow got a great oline to go with Mixon, Chase, and Higgins.  
 

Miami got McDaniel and Hill and lots of speed - a terrible matchup for our slow safeties. 
 

The Jets built the best D in the AFC.  

 

Lawrence got Pederson, Etienne, and Ridley.

Chiefs still the Chiefs.  
 

 

 

I think those teams have definitely caught the Bills and maybe passed them.  And that has impacted their mindset.  They know they may not have the best team anymore and can be beat whereas there was no question we were winning the division 2020-2021 and into 2022.  

That’s a McD and Beane issue.  The players aren’t stupid.  They flat out said they didn’t think they were beating the Bengals.  They were beat before they took the field.  
 

Maybe they really were beaten down by the injuries last year and Hamlin.  Maybe they’ve tuned out McD since 13 seconds, a questionable OC hire to appease Josh (really only explains Diggs), and then all the mystery post 13 seconds a year later the “stepping aside” of Frazier.  
 

Year 7 of McD folks.  Can’t keep coming up short every year before it becomes “who’s this guy anyway” in that locker room that Reid, Saleh, McD, Pederson (we’ll see), and Taylor keep running circles around.  

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Nah they all were posting and sharing the pics from that party and talk about it fondly.  
 

 

 

It’s this: 

 

Dorsey has been figured out.  Davis is not evolving or becoming an elite 2.  No slot WR worth a ***t.  Still no real RB threat.  Oline complete disaster last year.  Josh got hurt. 
 

 

 

Meanwhile, around the AFC:

 

Burrow got a great oline to go with Mixon, Chase, and Higgins.  
 

Miami got McDaniel and Hill and lots of speed - a terrible matchup for our slow safeties. 
 

The Jets built the best D in the AFC.  

 

Lawrence got Pederson, Etienne, and Ridley.

Chiefs still the Chiefs.  
 

 

 

I think those teams have definitely caught the Bills and maybe passed them.  And that has impacted their mindset.  They know they may not have the best team anymore and can be beat whereas there was no question we were winning the division 2020-2021 and into 2022.  

That’s a McD and Beane issue.  The players aren’t stupid.  They flat out said they didn’t think they were beating the Bengals.  They were beat before they took the field.  
 

Maybe they really were beaten down by the injuries last year and Hamlin.  Maybe they’ve tuned out McD since 13 seconds, a questionable OC hire to appease Josh (really only explains Diggs), and then all the mystery post 13 seconds a year later the “stepping aside” of Frazier.  
 

Year 7 of McD folks.  Can’t keep coming up short every year before it becomes “who’s this guy anyway” in that locker room that Reid, Saleh, McD, Pederson (we’ll see), and Taylor keep running circles around.  

Did you happen to see what the Browns D line did to the Bengals last week?

[Billl]

37 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Put Josh under center way more often and it will solve nearly all of the offensive problems

 

Things will become simplified under center not to mention improve the run game and play action. Also he will likely know when he can improvise quicker if his first couple reads are covered 

Things aren’t simplified under center at all. They put Josh in shotgun because it makes his reads easier.  He’s never been great at processing, so forcing him to backpedal, turn his back to play fake, etc. works against him.  

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, "bums" isn't the word I used.  LOL  Either way, it's hardly a popular narrative here.  

 

As my suspicions go however and as I've stated numerous times, I expect it to increase in popularity during and after this season.  

 

McD is fine as a "cheerleading" coach, and this "winning culture" thing, LOL, ... honestly.  Any team that posts winning seasons regularly qualifies as having a "winning culture."  It's a ridiculously soft measure.  

 

If one measures coaches by having their teams fully prepared going into games, particularly playoff games, making half-time adjustments, out-strategizing their peers, etc., McD's not anywhere near the top.  It's rare to hear about how McD out X's-n-O's the opponents.  We rely on better talent and Allen to win games.  That's not particular to coaching.  

 

 

That’s true. I think McD is in the top half of coaches at least personally.