United Auto Workers On Strike

[Tiberius]

Thoughts? 

[Biden is Mentally Fit]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/business/auto-workers-strike/index.html
 

The automakers all offered the union double-digit pay hikes but it was not enough to meet the union negotiators’ demands.

 

Double digit pay hike should be more than sufficient with the economy doing so well in this era of Bidenomics. Right? 

[Tommy Callahan]

Removing of separate pay scales for doing the same job is huge.  The companies will fight it 

 

The people with decades might make thirty. 

 

But new employees are starting at 17 with a cap of 22 unless they get into trades 

 

That's *****.  But the norm anymore.  

 

Good luck UAW..

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/business/auto-workers-strike/index.html
 

The automakers all offered the union double-digit pay hikes but it was not enough to meet the union negotiators’ demands.

 

Double digit pay hike should be more than sufficient with the economy doing so well in this era of Bidenomics. Right? 

They are asking for a 40% raise! Wow! 

 

 

[K D]

The pro union folks who hate Elon Musk are helping his business by slowing production at the other automakers. What a predicament!

[ChiGoose]

AP: Workers are on strike at all 3 Detroit auto makers for the first time in their union’s history

 

"In addition to general wage increases, the union is seeking restoration of cost-of-living pay raises, an end to varying tiers of wages for factory jobs, a 32-hour week with 40 hours of pay, the restoration of traditional defined-benefit pensions for new hires who now receive only 401(k)-style retirement plans, pension increases for retirees and other items.

 

Starting in 2007, workers gave up cost-of-living raises and defined benefit pensions for new hires. Wage tiers were created as the UAW tried to help the companies avoid financial trouble ahead of and during the Great Recession. Even so, only Ford avoided government-funded bankruptcy protection."

 

Looks like many of the non-wage demands are about restoring policies that they gave up to save the companies during the recession. I think that's probably a good idea, but "40 hours pay for 32 hours of work" is a pretty bad look.

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

The domestic auto industry has been losing market share since the 1970's when disruptions to the oil markets and quality issues plagued the industry.  At that time the workforce was multiples of its current levels but plant closings, NAFTA, more efficient foreign competition, automation, and financial pressures have worked against the companies and the union. 

 

I worked my way through college at a GM parts plant in Buffalo.  Then after graduating I quit and then moved down to NYC to pursue career interests.  I can tell you working in a parts plant was no picnic.  When people told me those guys get paid too much I told them I doubted they would last an hour in the place,  Its was dirty, noisy, extremely hot, and depending on your specific job, dangerous.  On the job injuries and safety incidents were pretty regular.  If your Foreman was good you were fortunate, but some were real a-holes.  I had both.  But the money was good and it helped me finish college without any debt and a few bucks banked.

 

Given the current situation some of their demands are unrealistic.  The companies are not going to return to defined pension plans as that was one major reason they were in such bad financial conditions.  Paying retired workers in aggregate almost as much as they paid their employees.  As its a seniority based system I expect the company would want concessions from the union in how they manage work and shift assignments for any concessions for the elimination of wage tiers.  A 40% wage increase with a 32 hour week seems out of the question given the state of the industry.  The negotiating environment seems contentious so I wonder if were going to see a long strike?      

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

39 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

AP: Workers are on strike at all 3 Detroit auto makers for the first time in their union’s history

 

"In addition to general wage increases, the union is seeking restoration of cost-of-living pay raises, an end to varying tiers of wages for factory jobs, a 32-hour week with 40 hours of pay, the restoration of traditional defined-benefit pensions for new hires who now receive only 401(k)-style retirement plans, pension increases for retirees and other items.

 

Starting in 2007, workers gave up cost-of-living raises and defined benefit pensions for new hires. Wage tiers were created as the UAW tried to help the companies avoid financial trouble ahead of and during the Great Recession. Even so, only Ford avoided government-funded bankruptcy protection."

 

Looks like many of the non-wage demands are about restoring policies that they gave up to save the companies during the recession. I think that's probably a good idea, but "40 hours pay for 32 hours of work" is a pretty bad look.

 

every industry is watching. especially union companies. 

 

ITs been a common practice to push a lower pay scale for future employees at negotiations. and has been happening way before 07.   p. if the UAW gets that condition alone met, it could have a rippling effect.

 

Moving the 70% of the workforce that is on schedule B, C, D, and E to A would give most of them at least a 40% raise right then.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Chris farley

[The Frankish Reich]

6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I worked my way through college at a GM parts plant in Buffalo.  Then after graduating I quit and then moved down to NYC to pursue career interests.  I can tell you working in a parts plant was no picnic.  When people told me those guys get paid too much I told them I doubted they would last an hour in the place,  Its was dirty, noisy, extremely hot, and depending on your specific job, dangerous.  On the job injuries and safety incidents were pretty regular.  If your Foreman was good you were fortunate, but some were real a-holes.  I had both.  But the money was good and it helped me finish college without any debt and a few bucks banked.

Thanks. I mentioned before that sometimes I get some insight from reading different perspectives here. This is what I mean.

[BillStime]

Don't let the cult fool you... the GQP are 100% pro-business - pro CEO - pro billionaires:

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

We’ve seen this cycle before.
 

Unions drive up wages, benefits, pensions and become less profitable. To fix profitability problems, car companies experience layoffs, loss in quality or reduced competitiveness and lose market share. Company spirals into bankruptcy and in sone cases have to be bailed out by taxpayers.  They only alternate is to offshore more of the supply chain or spend more on automation to reduce labor component of vehicles. 
 

Having worked in the auto industry for a decade early in my career, having seen both type of shops, even abroad and being around  the arbitrators, it’s pretty sleazy.  
 

The union leadership is much more about carefully cultivating the perception you need them then actually working for what helps you. (Sort of explains which political camp they fall in) 

 

But I admire their confidence in their skills to ask for a 40% raise and a 20% reduction in work week. I haven’t purchased an American car since 1998 so maybe they are much better now. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

We’ve seen this cycle before.
 

Unions drive up wages, benefits, pensions and become less profitable. To fix profitability problems, car companies experience layoffs, loss in quality or reduced competitiveness and lose market share. Company spirals into bankruptcy and in sone cases have to be bailed out by taxpayers.  They only alternate is to offshore more of the supply chain or spend more on automation to reduce labor component of vehicles. 
 

Having worked in the auto industry for a decade early in my career, having seen both type of shops, even abroad and being around  the arbitrators, it’s pretty sleazy.  
 

The union leadership is much more about carefully cultivating the perception you need them then actually working for what helps you. (Sort of explains which political camp they fall in) 

 

But I admire their confidence in their skills to ask for a 40% raise and a 20% reduction in work week. I haven’t purchased an American car since 1998 so maybe they are much better now. 

As a teacher in FL I don't have to be part of the union and any chance to recruit me died when instead of forcing the county to pay me more when I came back to work after COVID they simply made them spend thousands of dollars per teacher on "mitigation" items to "protect" me from COVID. They simply made sure that their buddies got the contracts for these overpriced items. No one who I personally know likes there union much, but many at least get more money from them, I get nothing really.

[Tiberius]

13 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

But I admire their confidence in their skills to ask for a 40% raise and a 20% reduction in work week. I haven’t purchased an American car since 1998 so maybe they are much better now. 

Oh totally. Vehicles are way better than in the 80's. 

[Precision]

52 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh totally. Vehicles are way better than in the 80's. 

Yeah, the US auto manufacturers have been killing it, or rather themselves.  I'm sure a higher paid, less productive workforce will only help them.  In addition to my car I've always had a Ford F-150.  My current model (2018) is the worst of the four I've owned dating back to the early 90's. 

 

Consumer Reports ranking for the most reliable cars of 2023 are in. Here are the winners.

 

What are the most reliable automotive brands?

1. Toyota

2. Lexus

3. BMW

4. Mazda

5. Honda

6. Audi

7. Subaru

8. Acura

9. Kia

10. Lincoln

11. Buick

12. Genesis

13. Hyundai

14. Volvo

15. Nissan

16. Ram

17. Cadillac

18. Ford

19. Tesla

20. Chevrolet

21. GMC

22. Volkswagen

23. Jeep

24. Mercedes-Benz

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Precision said:

Yeah, the US auto manufacturers have been killing it, or rather themselves.  I'm sure a higher paid, less productive workforce will only help them.  In addition to my car I've always had a Ford F-150.  My current model (2018) is the worst of the four I've owned dating back to the early 90's. 

 

Consumer Reports ranking for the most reliable cars of 2023 are in. Here are the winners.

 

What are the most reliable automotive brands?

1. Toyota

2. Lexus

3. BMW

4. Mazda

5. Honda

6. Audi

7. Subaru

8. Acura

9. Kia

10. Lincoln

11. Buick

12. Genesis

13. Hyundai

14. Volvo

15. Nissan

16. Ram

17. Cadillac

18. Ford

19. Tesla

20. Chevrolet

21. GMC

22. Volkswagen

23. Jeep

24. Mercedes-Benz

 

I own two Toyotas! 

[The Frankish Reich]

14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

We’ve seen this cycle before.
 

Unions drive up wages, benefits, pensions and become less profitable. To fix profitability problems, car companies experience layoffs, loss in quality or reduced competitiveness and lose market share. Company spirals into bankruptcy and in sone cases have to be bailed out by taxpayers.  They only alternate is to offshore more of the supply chain or spend more on automation to reduce labor component of vehicles. 
 

Having worked in the auto industry for a decade early in my career, having seen both type of shops, even abroad and being around  the arbitrators, it’s pretty sleazy.  
 

The union leadership is much more about carefully cultivating the perception you need them then actually working for what helps you. (Sort of explains which political camp they fall in) 

 

But I admire their confidence in their skills to ask for a 40% raise and a 20% reduction in work week. I haven’t purchased an American car since 1998 so maybe they are much better now. 

It's not so much the wages. Auto makers can plan around wage increases.

It's the benefits and work rules that can cement things in place and make it impossible to respond to changing market conditions.

I do believe the scale got too tilted in favor of management over the last decades, so unions are critical to rebalancing that a bit. But no one (except maybe the union leadership and Bernie) wants to go back to the dark days of the 70s/80s.

[Tommy Callahan]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It's not so much the wages. Auto makers can plan around wage increases.

It's the benefits and work rules that can cement things in place and make it impossible to respond to changing market conditions.

I do believe the scale got too tilted in favor of management over the last decades, so unions are critical to rebalancing that a bit. But no one (except maybe the union leadership and Bernie) wants to go back to the dark days of the 70s/80s.

If you google UAW strike, all the top results are attacking the Pension demands, not pay.

 

and its a solid point that these companies want to be able to cut labor(cost) at a moment's notice.  like they can in the rest of the world. 

 

 

And something is busted when the incoming wage is 17 dollars an hour, with no pension and health care they can't afford.  

 

Shoot, at 17 an hour. many probably also get social services to pay for things like health care and food.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Chris farley

[Joe Ferguson forever]

https://fortune.com/2023/09/17/uaw-strike-highlights-carmaker-ceo-worker-pay-gaps-gm-ford-stellantis/#.

 

Ridiculous exec comp.

 

That said, these folks are expendable.  E vehicles have many less parts.  Automation is better and will continue to improve in every manufacturing industry.  A stipend to live will be needed in the not so far future to stop people from starving.   The upside is the noisy, dirty, hot conditions won't be around. Foreign labor may be cheaper for a bit longer....

Edited September 22, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever

[LeviF]

7 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

https://fortune.com/2023/09/17/uaw-strike-highlights-carmaker-ceo-worker-pay-gaps-gm-ford-stellantis/#.

 

Ridiculous exec comp.

 

That said, these folks are expendable.  E vehicles have many less parts.  Automation is better and will continue to improve in every manufacturing industry.  A stipend to live will be needed in the not so far future to stop people from starving.   The upside is the noisy, dirty, hot conditions won't be around. Foreign labor may be cheaper for a bit longer....

GM has already outsourced a ton of work to Mexico and Korea. Walk around a Chevy lot and see how many VINs start with 3 or K and how many list engines and transmissions built in Mexico. And yes, that includes the pickup trucks. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, LeviF said:

GM has already outsourced a ton of work to Mexico and Korea. Walk around a Chevy lot and see how many VINs start with 3 or K and how many list engines and transmissions built in Mexico. And yes, that includes the pickup trucks. 

Sad but true.  And my subie was built in Indiana. the buick is a rebadged Opel...it's actually a great car in the GS trim with a stick.  Wouldn't mind finding an old opel GT.  Interesting that the Japanese (and German) makers have chosen states that aren't union friendly to build plants...

Edited September 22, 2023 by Joe Ferguson forever