Stop blaming Josh Allen

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm sure Allen is oblivious to the reaction as he should be.  My point is that the reaction is EXTREME and OVER THE TOP.  Obviously after a game like that fans will be pissed and they should be.  But just look at all the "Allen sucks" threads on 2BD and the vitriol being poured out in post after post after post for ONE bad performance in the season opener.  Frankly, it's psychotic.

 

 

No one is asking fans to appreciate Allen's sloppy play on Monday night.  But what we're seeing here goes way beyond a lack of appreciation.

 

 

 

It's not extreme or over the top.  It's the same stuff fans have posted on such boards all over the country since such places have existed.  This place is very tame--mods keep a solid grip on the language.

 

Anyway, fan support directly and indirectly pays Allen's astronomical salary to properly entertain them. They can say they want on a fan message board that he doesn't read.

 

Why pretend this isn't the case?

[DapperCam]

The majority (and most visible) of the bashing is coming from the national media. Not sure we can stop that.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

 

Allen has more ability, running and passing, but Kelly never had a fumble like that. It’s hard to understand from a guy who is the most talented and confident QB we ever had, but who also descends to a nearly Petermanesque level every so often.

 

Your post got me thinking about Kelly who is the best QB to ever play for the Bills. My recollection was that Kelly was a gunslinger who was often reckless with his passing and at times wildly inconsistent.  So I cracked open Sal Maiorana's wonderful book "Relentless" to see how Kelly was game to game during the Bills glory years from 1988 - 1993. What I found was that Kelly could be very "Petermanesque" at times.

 

First a couple of notes:

 

* I didn't look at Kelly's fumbles/rushing production because running the football is a huge part of Allen's game and not Kelly's. Sure Allen has lost a lot more fumbles then Kelly but he's also produced gob smacking rushing production that Kelly can't come close to matching.  So I focus on the passing stats here.

 

* I get it's a different era of football but by the late 80's offenses were beginning to dominate the game. But I would suggest that while Allen has benefited by the rule changes that is more then cancelled out by the fact that Kelly was surrounded by future HOF and yearly pro bowlers/all pros on the offense. Kelly had a lot more help on offense then Allen does.  So let's call it a wash.

 

From 1988 - 1993 Kelly threw 2 or more INT's in 26 regular season games out of a total of 96 regular season games.  That is one multi INT game every four games.  This was consistent throughout those 6 regular seasons.

 

Here's a sampling of some of Kelly's really bad regular season games which the Bills often lost but also won a surprisingly large amount of:

 

Bad Completion % (less then 50%) and/or low yardage games:

* 8/18 for 115 yrds

* 10/23 for 144 yrds

* 5/15 for 79 yrds

* 11/33

* 7/19 for 93 yrds

* 17/35

 

Lots of INT's not so many TD games:

* 3 INT/1TD

* 3 INT/1 TD

* 3 INT/2 TD

* 3 INT/0 TD

* 4 INT/1 TD (against the 3 - 8 Pats)

* 4 INT/1 TD

* 3 INT/0 TD

 

Special note was a 1991 game at home against the Bengals in which Kelly threw 3 INT's in the 1st quarter!  He then went on to have a monster game to win,

 

I won't spend much time on the playoffs/Super Bowls as we all know Kelly laid a couple of eggs in those games:

 

1988 - In 2 playoff games Kelly was 33/63 for 407 yards with 4 INT's & 1 TD.  This includes a 14/30, 163 yrd with 3 INT/1 TD AFC championship game. If Allen had back to back playoff games like this today we would be screaming for he Bills to draft a new QB in the off season.

 

1991 - Kelly was 13/25 for 117 yrds & 2 INT's in the AFC championship game at Rich Stadium.  The O did not score a TD. The Bills won 10 - 7 on the back of their D.  How many times has Allen sucked and the Bills won on the back of their D?

 

That year also saw Kelly's worst Super Bowl performance where he attempted 58 passes and gained only 275 yards and threw 4 INT's against 2 garbage time TD's.

 

Bottom line Kelly should thank his lucky stars that Social Media and an over abundance of National Football Media exports weren't around during those years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by CincyBillsFan

[Dopey]

Love Josh and I’m glad he’s our qb, but he’s been coddled enough by the “Josh is God” crew. Time to take the kid gloves off and treat him like any other Bill. Edmunds was not the reason we haven’t made it to a SB, but that didn’t stop the mob. Josh shouldn’t be babied anymore. If this runs him out of town…sayonara. 
He’s not going anywhere and he’s going to turn it around this week vs the Raiders. Hopefully he just gets to work and not soak up the accolades when we win. 

[McBean]

13 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

Spot on

[CincyBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's not extreme or over the top.  It's the same stuff fans have posted on such boards all over the country since such places have existed.  This place is very tame--mods keep a solid grip on the language.

 

Anyway, fan support directly and indirectly pays Allen's astronomical salary to properly entertain them. They can say they want on a fan message board that he doesn't read.

 

Why pretend this isn't the case?

First, this place is tame because the majority of posters are great and the MODS do keep most of the wack jobs away.  The good posters can be critical of Allen but they also share interesting insight and some have a sharp sense of humor.  Most importantly they know how to structure their criticisms with the proper context. My pet peeve is the relentless negativism and spite directed at Allen whenever he has a bad game. Hell it's often directed at the guy when he has just an average game.  It IS over the top.

 

Second, I don't care what other goofy fan bases do on other message boards.  2BD takes up more then enough of my time.

 

Third, I'm not saying people can't be negative Nellie's and over react and direct spiteful attacks at Allen.  Go for it if that's what floats your boat.  It's a free country. But why do you guys get upset and want to shut those of us up when we react by defending Allen and trying to place some context around his games & performances?

 

Why are you pretending that this ISN'T a two way street?

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Love Josh and I’m glad he’s our qb, but he’s been coddled enough by the “Josh is God” crew. Time to take the kid gloves off and treat him like any other Bill. Edmunds was not the reason we haven’t made it to a SB, but that didn’t stop the mob. Josh shouldn’t be babied anymore. If this runs him out of town…sayonara. 
He’s not going anywhere and he’s going to turn it around this week vs the Raiders. Hopefully he just gets to work and not soak up the accolades when we win. 

Who is saying "Josh is God"?  You throw that out there with no evidence to back it up.  Allen takes more criticism then any other Bill and he's the best player on the team.  Oh wait, is calling Allen the best player on the team the same as calling him a God?

 

Edmunds had what, ONE thread that attacked him, often unfairly.  How many does Allen have right now on 2BD attacking him?

 

I agree that Edmunds wasn't the reason we haven't won a SB.  But Allen handed the Bills franchise a golden opportunity to win a SB in 2021 with his lights out play.  And over the next 5 years he will do it again, probably a couple of more times and maybe this season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

I would love nothing more than Kyle *Shanahan as HC of this team, but Josh Allen is not above criticism.  He is no different than any other QB in football. 

 

He needs to cut down on the turnovers.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[Mark92]

I am one of the biggest fans and supporters of Josh Allen.  We finally have our Franchise QB who is capable of winning League MVP and bringing us our coveted Super Bowl Championship.  It's also ok to say the man sucked against the Jets.  He really sucked and looked like a damn fool.  He will come out of this because it's what he does.  Go Bills. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Mark92

[Mc1320]

He has the most turnovers of any QB since 2018……..and his poor decision making lost us the game Monday night.

 

If he was showing signs of improvement in this area it would be one thing but he is not, so the criticism is justified…

[BreezeMafia]

14 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

The same Kyle Shanahan who, while an OC for Atlanta, calls a pass on 3rd and 2 vs. running against the Pats to close the Super Bowl out??????

[blitzboy54]

LEAVE BRITTNY ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

sniff

[BigDingus]

"Stop blaming the guy I like!"

 

"Blame these other scapegoats instead!" 

 

That's the OP in a nutshell. You're a complete fool if you think those throws or that fumble was the coaching staff.

 

You're also a fool if you think Josh Allen is the NFL leader in turnovers the last 4 years because of someone else's fault.

 

I'm so freaking sick of seeing the "blame anyone *BUT* the guy who had the most to do with it!"

 

Thankfully, the rest of the NFL community who aren't complete homers know the truth, including Josh himself. You can deflect all you want, but your "blame the other people" narrative falls on deaf ears after so many years of seeing this play.

 

Allen's a talented QB, and we all love him, but he's a Rollercoaster. And it's also why he's not in that Mahomes tier. 

[benderbender]

38 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I don't care what other goofy fan bases do on other message boards.  2BD takes up more then enough of my time.

You don't have to, but it's good for the soul. You'll find that other fanbases (Bears and Raiders I've seen recently) are marinating in caustic cynicism that the naysayers on this board could only dream of attaining the recipe for. It actually makes our weekly fire McD threads seem classy. 

[Heavy Kevi]

14 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’ve been high enough on Allen that I think he’s the most naturally talented QB in the NFL, but due to those gifts, that’s also why he’s receiving the harsh criticism this week…

 

The typical talking head nonsense was going to come regardless.   They have a clickbait job to do. 
 

What he’s getting that’s different is the old “I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed” vibe aimed at him from some of the more nuanced and respectable talking heads. 
 

The fact he is so talented, but (so far) just doesn’t seem to get it.   He does whatever he wants to do with zero regard for his body and/or what he does to hurt the team when he gets bored or frustrated. 
 

That’s not professional QB’ing.  That’s immature and selfish. 
 

It’s on him to change it.  Apparently nobody, except maybe Daboll, can get through to him. 

 

Agree with most of this except bolded. Daboll may have been the only one so far, but you can't make that statement because we haven't tried. We moved Josh's buddy QB coach to oc and that's it. We know McD and dorsey can't get through to him and that's ALL we know.

 

Maybe the next OC, or the next HC can (and there will be other OCs and HCs), but we can't say with any confidence that "nobody... can get through to him"

 

The first person we put with Josh did get through to him. The second didn't. Hardly a "welp, Josh be Josh" type situation.

 

The 100% certain thing right now is Josh is the most important person in that building more important than McD, beane, Terry... Everyone. 5 years from now most of the players will be gone but Josh will remain. It's on coaching, management, and ultimately ownership to put competent leadership around him with no regard for anyone else's feelings or job security. If (when) McD likely replaces Dorsey after this year, if he can't find a suitable replacement, it's time for McD to go. If beane doesn't properly address McD when it's time, beane needs to go, etc.

 

I like McD and beane but there is NOBODY who should be immune from accountability. You have a unicorn QB that needs structure. Give him that structure or get TF out of the way for someone who can.

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's not extreme or over the top.  It's the same stuff fans have posted on such boards all over the country since such places have existed.  This place is very tame--mods keep a solid grip on the language.

 

Anyway, fan support directly and indirectly pays Allen's astronomical salary to properly entertain them. They can say they want on a fan message board that he doesn't read.

 

Why pretend this isn't the case?

Agreed. Getting criticized is part of the package deal that also includes incredible wealth and fame. 

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm sure Allen is oblivious to the reaction as he should be.  My point is that the reaction is EXTREME and OVER THE TOP.  Obviously after a game like that fans will be pissed and they should be.  But just look at all the "Allen sucks" threads on 2BD and the vitriol being poured out in post after post after post for ONE bad performance in the season opener.  Frankly, it's psychotic.

 

 

 

 

 

It’s actually very normal! You should have seen Patriots sites after Brady stunk against KC or when he played poorly against Baltimore. Fans were calling for his head.  Fans are FANATICS.. they over react.. always have always will. 
 

As for the talking heads, being negative gets them more ratings brings more money for them. For an example a certain Talking head who for like 10 years said Brady was done and no good anymore.. 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Who is saying "Josh is God"?  You throw that out there with no evidence to back it up.  Allen takes more criticism then any other Bill and he's the best player on the team.  Oh wait, is calling Allen the best player on the team the same as calling him a God?

 

Edmunds had what, ONE thread that attacked him, often unfairly.  How many does Allen have right now on 2BD attacking him?

 

I agree that Edmunds wasn't the reason we haven't won a SB.  But Allen handed the Bills franchise a golden opportunity to win a SB in 2021 with his lights out play.  And over the next 5 years he will do it again, probably a couple of more times and maybe this season. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve read plenty of posts calling him a god, a Superman, etc. Not throwing it out there blindly. 
Allen takes more criticism than any other Bill?!? Unless you’re referring to this week, that’s BS. 
Did Allen hand us a golden opportunity? sure. He also laid a big fat egg vs Cincy. last year. 
There were numerous Edmunds bashing threads  and posts here. Of course Allen apologists will gloss over this. 
Diggs gets crap for calling out Josh(deservedly so) and Allen is babied here. He finally gets put in the category of someone who needs to do better and his crew cries fowl. You should follow your leader’s example and place blame where it lies. He did. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Bills Bud said:

Fans, players and his own coaches bashing him is not a good look. You are going to drive him out of town. He is the best QB we ever had imo, definitely since Jim Kelly. I blame the coaches, we need an offensive minded head coach. Imagine if Kyle Shannan had Josh Allen, we need a guy like that. That’s the only way we will finally get that Super Bowl, defense doesn’t win championships anymore. McDermott has to go!

This is sarcasm right?

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

First, this place is tame because the majority of posters are great and the MODS do keep most of the wack jobs away.  The good posters can be critical of Allen but they also share interesting insight and some have a sharp sense of humor.  Most importantly they know how to structure their criticisms with the proper context. My pet peeve is the relentless negativism and spite directed at Allen whenever he has a bad game. Hell it's often directed at the guy when he has just an average game.  It IS over the top.

 

Second, I don't care what other goofy fan bases do on other message boards.  2BD takes up more then enough of my time.

 

Third, I'm not saying people can't be negative Nellie's and over react and direct spiteful attacks at Allen.  Go for it if that's what floats your boat.  It's a free country. But why do you guys get upset and want to shut those of us up when we react by defending Allen and trying to place some context around his games & performances?

 

Why are you pretending that this ISN'T a two way street?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a 2 way street.  So let people say what they want.  It doesn't hurt Josh Allen (it will not "drive him out of town").  

 

No one is saying he's a bad person.  None it is "spite".  Bad takes always exist.  Don't let it hurt you.