Jordan Palmer on Allen - It’s more about the loss Brian Daboll, who Bellicheck says is elite

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Yo I remember when I was the only one here who would post positive things about Brian Daboll and everyone would either vomit or laugh haha

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

This is something that elite QB’s go through.  If you are a top offense, your coordinator isn’t going to stay long.

 

Allen might go through 5 OC’s by the time his career is over.  Most, if not all elite QB’s go through multiple coordinators. 

perhaps why your HC needs to be your OC in general 

[GunnerBill]

41 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Yo I remember when I was the only one here who would post positive things about Brian Daboll and everyone would either vomit or laugh haha

 

You weren't quite the only one. I was a regular Daboll defender. But it was like holding back the hoards at times. 

[Mango]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You weren't quite the only one. I was a regular Daboll defender. But it was like holding back the hoards at times. 

I agree there were some problems with Daboll here and that he did some good things in providing Josh some things he could execute well like plays where everybody ran a hook route, or all crossers and Josh rolling out. Both helped Josh either throw or run. That’s it. 
 

But at some point when you pay your guy $250M he has to be good at well…the entire playbook. I think that’s a big criticism I’ve had for some time even regarding the WR position. Like, “woah hold up, you’re telling me that my $250M star QB needs a 1a, 1b at both outside spots, plus a pretty good TE”. When the QB gets laid the expectations change across the board from weapons to executing the entire playbook. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Mango

[Not at the table Karlos]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

Even with that 40-0 drubbing on opening night?

Kind of like the 31-0 drubbing the bills put on the pats* week 1 years ago. Patriots dynasty ended that day

 

/

[BillsFan2313]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

His roster really isn’t great. He got them to overachieve last season.

 

Though unprecedented, perhaps that is what should have happened.

 

Here we go....

[NoHuddleKelly12]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You weren't quite the only one. I was a regular Daboll defender. But it was like holding back the hoards at times. 

I believe the mantra from the pitchfork wielders was something along the lines of, “can’t he ever run the ball, or utilize the TE position??”

[MJS]

It's amazing that Bills fans are so nostalgic about Daboll when there were many here complaining about him continually and many even happy that he left as a HC.

 

It never ends with the revisionist history around here.

[Chaos]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

This is something that elite QB’s go through.  If you are a top offense, your coordinator isn’t going to stay long.

 

Allen might go through 5 OC’s by the time his career is over.  Most, if not all elite QB’s go through multiple coordinators. 

Yes, but sometimes not multiple head coaches. Ie Bellichek, Reid.  

McDermott has publically chosen to not own the offensive failures since the start of his tenure.  He is not and cannot be any source of continuity to subsitute for rolling OC.  Long term decision making by Beane ought to consider if this is impactful or not. 

[HOUSE]

Let me tally this up...

Daboll 40

Dorsey 0

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You weren't quite the only one. I was a regular Daboll defender. But it was like holding back the hoards at times. 

"It's all Josh" was the prevailing wisdom at the time.

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You weren't quite the only one. I was a regular Daboll defender. But it was like holding back the hoards at times. 

 

Agree,  Coach Diabolical was and still is my nickname for him.   The first year he and Josh did not get along but something changed and they became good buddies having far more contact than NFLPA wants.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

"It's all Josh" was the prevailing wisdom at the time.

 

And remained so until about 3 days ago. Then when it goes wrong it's all the coaches. 

[Saxum]

50 minutes ago, Mango said:

I agree there were some problems with Daboll here and that he did some good things in providing Josh some things he could execute well like plays where everybody ran a hook route, or all crossers and Josh rolling out. Both helped Josh either throw or run. That’s it. 
 

But at some point when you pay your guy $250M he has to be good at well…the entire playbook. I think that’s a big criticism I’ve had for some time even regarding the WR position. Like, “woah hold up, you’re telling me that my $250M star QB needs a 1a, 1b at both outside spots, plus a pretty good TE”. When the QB gets laid the expectations change across the board from weapons to executing the entire playbook. 

So we need a virgin QB to succeed.  

[Fan in Chicago]

10 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

"It's all Josh" was the prevailing wisdom at the time.

Which could be true right now as well. Do we really know how hard Dorsey is trying to put schemes in around Allen's limitations? And how often JA goes off script to destroy those plans?

What's frustrating to me is that many respected posters think that he will always need a guy to manage Allen's tendencies. How many successful QBs in the NFL have needed such constant guidance counselling and baby sitting ? If he needs more years psychologically to develop and needs a strong voice around him all the time, we have a major problem. In high stress situations, such as playoffs and Superbowl, that QB will be out there on the field. You cannot hope that he won't go off the deep end and shut off all calming voices. 

Josh has to own his own development, he has to accept he has a major problem and commit to long term change. It will be hard but if he wants to earn his high paycheck and achieve what he is capable off, there is no other choice. I have equated this problem to an addiction - success only comes when the addict accepts the issue,  gets help and makes the hard changes. Such success doesn't happen by always having a baby sitter to keep the person from relapsing

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

a couple perspectives

 

1) Belichick was always highly complimentary of his tree. few success stories as of yet. 
 

2) the off season QB coach finding external excuses for his buddy and client, who he assured us would be the best in the league by now, is hardly surprising. 
 

3) it doesn’t take a genius to coach up hitting the wide open flat on 3rd and 2 instead of the double covered corner route. But I do agree daboll would have probably been harder on Josh for being dumb. 
 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You weren't quite the only one. I was a regular Daboll defender. But it was like holding back the hoards at times. 

I was a defender too. The good ol’ days!

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

perhaps why your HC needs to be your OC in general 

[colin]

we were 7-6 13 games into dabol's last year hear, and that includes him getting totally outcoached by urban friken meyer.

 

it's possible daboll is just better than dorsey, its also possible they both suck.  

 

the willies and the joes matter much more than the x's and the o's, and we were set up to win monday night and josh allen just delivered four abortions.

 

we can get right this week vs the raiders.

[Doc]

8 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

yup...

 

The Giants have an escape hatch after the 2024 season. They can cut ties with Jones to create $21.5 million in cap savings while eating $18 million in dead money. It’s not ideal to eat $18 million in dead money, but with a projected $282 million salary cap in 2025, the Giants could absorb that hit if they’re compelled to dump Jones

 

True there's an out after 2024 (with a $22M cap hit), but Daboll was brought-in to make Jones a franchise QB.  If the can't do that and they're looking for a new QB in 2025...

 

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

His roster really isn’t great. He got them to overachieve last season.

 

That won't play well with the Giants fans, media and probably ownership.  He might be a victim of his own early success.

 

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

You could say same thing about Cheats being drubbed on opening night by Bills.

 

Single games especially openers can be due to a lot of reasons especially players not working together before.

 

It is easy to do with posters flipping back and forth on position which is made worse by those who goal appears to be able to say "I was right" ever time something goes wrong.  They would have issues with a 51-3 win in Superbowl for defense allowed them to score.

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Kind of like the 31-0 drubbing the bills put on the pats* week 1 years ago. Patriots dynasty ended that day

 

/

 

That was due to Lawyer Milloy.  But as I said, we'll have to see how the rest of the season goes.