Jordan Palmer on Allen - It’s more about the loss Brian Daboll, who Bellicheck says is elite

[Reed83HOF]

“It’s less about Ken Dorsey & what he isn’t. It’s more about Brian Daboll. I think a few years from now we’ll all say that’s the best coach in football…”

 

“(Bill Belichick) made a comment to me once & we were talking about Daboll and he said ‘Daboll’s one of the only coaches I’ve ever been around that can be an elite offensive coordinator, an elite defensive coordinator & an elite special teams coordinator. He understands football at that level.’”

 

“When you lose that, you aren’t just gonna replace it.”

 

“What Josh benefited from with Daboll was not just the play calling but learning the game… learning the game from who Bill Belichick and a lot of other people think is one of the smarter dudes in the league at teaching the position”.

 

 

Edit - I can't find the clip from Cowturd right now

Edited September 14, 2023 by Reed83HOF

[Doc]

Even with that 40-0 drubbing on opening night?

[Scott7975]

Yeah I read an article on this today.  Thats a pretty big complement from Belichick if he actually said that.  I do believe Daboll is really smart and is a good coach. 

[Jerry Jabber]

Hopefully Daboll can get fired in NJ and the Bills can bring him back as the OC.

 

Wishful thinking! In all seriousness, I hope the Bills can bring in a better QB coach or OC that can keep Josh streamlined.

[Doc]

Are they sure Belicheat didn't mean Brian Flores?

Edited September 14, 2023 by Doc

[Royale with Cheese]

This is something that elite QB’s go through.  If you are a top offense, your coordinator isn’t going to stay long.

 

Allen might go through 5 OC’s by the time his career is over.  Most, if not all elite QB’s go through multiple coordinators. 

[Reed83HOF]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

Even with that 40-0 drubbing on opening night?

I'm interested to see what fruit this thread bears

[bouds]

Folks, there's an article about Bill Belichick and Nick Saban's relationship, really good read from 5-6 years ago maybe, think it was SI.  Anyway, Saban unearthed Daboll and recommended Brian for the job up NE.  Told Belichick, he's one of us, so he had the prodigy label from an early age.  It also helped that he's coached a long time, and coached both sides of the ball, and a few positions.  He's earned his stripes.  I like Daboll, think he's a good coach, but early last season, before the Jets game where Josh banged up his elbow, Allen looked fine without Daboll.

 

We've had a bunch of turnover on O staff, Tierney was another guy, a guy Daboll brought with him, that Josh liked.  Adjust or die in this league, has to figure it out, football hasn't changed, just needs to stop trying to make the insane plays.  Take the 5 yard hitch or the 4 yards shallow cross, live to fight another down.  

 

Wish we still had Daboll for the continuity.

Edited September 14, 2023 by bouds

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I'm interested to see what fruit this thread bears

 

After that Cowboys game, there's not much to say except "wait and see how the rest of the season plays out."

[ganesh]

9 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Hopefully Daboll can get fired in NJ and the Bills can bring him back as the OC.

 

Wishful thinking! In all seriousness, I hope the Bills can bring in a better QB coach or OC that can keep Josh streamlined.

I think Daboll/Allen had a Teacher/Student relationship....whereas Allen has had a much more relaxed working relationship with Dorsey...That may be a difference in the NFL

[gobills1212]

I mean... even if he wasnt the HC in NJ, it sounded like he might have been on the outs anyway. Agree or disagree,  its not like McD was getting booted and Dabes hired. Would make a return after a flounder (if that were to happen) tough regardless 

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Yeah I read an article on this today.  Thats a pretty big complement from Belichick if he actually said that.  I do believe Daboll is really smart and is a good coach. 

Let me start by saying Daboll is a good football coach.

 

But let’s also not pretend that Belichick doesn’t hand out compliments to people not in the building all Willy nilly. 
 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/10/bill-belichick-praise-chicago-bears-week-7-patriots

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

After that Cowboys game, there's not much to say except "wait and see how the rest of the season plays out."

 

That team overachieved last year and will regress towards the mean this year; they are are 3-4 year rebuild and still need to find a QB. Most of the threads I think there is an agreement amongst the fan base that the working relationship between Josh and Daboll is missed. Josh would take his a$ chewing and would learn and grow...

[Buffalo716]

I have a lot of thoughts on this... I'm not trying to post here much

 

Because I know this is going to be a crazy season on this board and I don't need the drama 

 

1000% Josh is missing daboll.. that doesn't mean Brian is better than Josh or a miracle worker

 

They had a great Bond.. that Brian was able to develop since Josh was 22... Brian was able to rip into him and give him criticism... Without pushback

 

What all professional football players need..  a coach to coach them

 

I don't think Allen respects Dorsey enough to be coached by him... Sure he can play under him... But he doesn't fear and respect him enough to take in coaching

 

Allen had plenty of mentors before Dorsey... Craig bohl... Jordan Palmer , daboll assisted by McDermott

 

Now he's down to the guy that was working under daboll... This is the NFL

 

The best offensive minds in the game of American football would love to work with Josh Allen... But McDermott is fine with bringing up coaches from his tree... But remember Brian daboll was not from his coaching tree... he was the best person to develop Josh Allen

 

Josh is not a lost cause.. and he's one of the most talented football players in the last 30 years... sans position.. he's that good

 

And McDermott runs a good enough ship to win with him... He just needs to stop promoting with this heart and give it to the person that deserves the job

 

Josh deserves an upper echelon schemer... Because Josh's talent is upper echelon in a league full of elite talent

 

And there is a Kyle shanahan waiting in the wings who would kill for a guy with that talent

1 hour ago, bouds said:

Folks, there's an article about Bill Belichick and Nick Saban's relationship, really good read from 5-6 years ago maybe, think it was SI.  Anyway, Saban unearthed Daboll and recommended Brian for the job up NE.  Told Belichick, he's one of us, so he had the prodigy label from an early age.  It also helped that he's coached a long time, and coached both sides of the ball, and a few positions.  He's earned his stripes.  I like Daboll, think he's a good coach, but early last season, before the Jets game where Josh banged up his elbow, Allen looked fine without Daboll.

 

We've had a bunch of turnover on O staff, Tierney was another guy, a guy Daboll brought with him, that Josh liked.  Adjust or die in this league, has to figure it out, football hasn't changed, just needs to stop trying to make the insane plays.  Take the 5 yard hitch or the 4 yards shallow cross, live to fight another down.  

 

Wish we still had Daboll for the continuity.

Since I have more football information stuck in my head the 90% of this board...

 

You do realize Nathaniel Hackett has the savant and guru label applied to him from a young age

 

But we stuck him with EJ Manuel who was replaced by the ghost of Kyle Orton who averaged 250 yd game and gave Sammy Watkins the best year of his career

 

Also gave Blake bortles a year that would be better than any Buffalo quarterback in NFL history before Josh Allen

 

But people think Nathaniel Hackett sucks here but thank God this is a message board because they don't understand coaching

 

Daboll was great for Josh Allen... But the same people refuse to admit Nathaniel hackett's success... And think he's only in the NFL because of a name

 

Not the dozens of NFL front office people who think he's an offensive guru.. who have put their careers on the line because of his name

 

Bills fans don't know much except being whiny

 

Even when we have something good here they don't like to admit it

Edited September 14, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

That team overachieved last year and will regress towards the mean this year; they are are 3-4 year rebuild and still need to find a QB. Most of the threads I think there is an agreement amongst the fan base that the working relationship between Josh and Daboll is missed. Josh would take his a$ chewing and would learn and grow...

 

You know they just gave Jones a 4-year $160M contract with $81M guaranteed, right?

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

“It’s less about Ken Dorsey & what he isn’t. It’s more about Brian Daboll. I think a few years from now we’ll all say that’s the best coach in football…”

 

“(Bill Belichick) made a comment to me once & we were talking about Daboll and he said ‘Daboll’s one of the only coaches I’ve ever been around that can be an elite offensive coordinator, an elite defensive coordinator & an elite special teams coordinator. He understands football at that level.’”

 

“When you lose that, you aren’t just gonna replace it.”

 

“What Josh benefited from with Daboll was not just the play calling but learning the game… learning the game from who Bill Belichick and a lot of other people think is one of the smarter dudes in the league at teaching the position”.

 

 

Edit - I can't find the clip from Cowturd right now

 

I think Jordan Palmer doesn't help himself by being America's Guest.

 

Josh's performance on Monday night should not be about losing Daboll.  Josh is a big boy now, a 6 year veteran.  He doesn't need an "elite football mind" to tell him don't make (at least 2 of) the three throws he made that were intercepted, protect the football vs. trying to get back to the LOS but taking the ball and yourself into traffic.

 

He doesn't.  Any ordinary competent fooball mind will tell him that.  Josh just has to be willing to be coachable and listen.

 

Daboll has done some good things as a coach.  Daboll has done some strange things as a coach.   If Daboll is such a great coach, why did his team get drubbed 40-0 on Sunday?  It wasn't just that they didn't win, it's that they looked awful.

 

And if Josh learned so much from 4 years with this brilliant football mind, and Josh is as smart and dedicated as Palmer tells us he is, shouldn't he be able to retain some of those learnings from Daboll - at least long enough to not do totally stupid *****?

Edited September 14, 2023 by Beck Water

[Franco_92]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I have a lot of thoughts on this... I'm not trying to post here much

 

Because I know this is going to be a crazy season on this board and I don't need the drama 

 

1000% Josh is missing daboll.. that doesn't mean Brian is better than Josh or a miracle worker

 

They had a great Bond.. that Brian was able to develop since Josh was 22... Brian was able to rip into him and give him criticism... Without pushback

 

What all professional football players need..  a coach to coach them

 

I don't think Allen respects Dorsey enough to be coached by him... Sure he can play under him... But he doesn't fear and respect him enough to take in coaching

 

Allen had plenty of mentors before Dorsey... Craig bohl... Jordan Palmer , daboll assisted by McDermott

 

Now he's down to the guy that was working under daboll... This is the NFL

 

The best offensive minds in the game of American football would love to work with Josh Allen... But McDermott is fine with bringing up coaches from his tree... But remember Brian daboll was not from his coaching tree... he was the best person to develop Josh Allen

 

Josh is not a lost cause.. and he's one of the most talented football players in the last 30 years... sans position.. he's that good

 

And McDermott runs a good enough ship to win with him... He just needs to stop promoting with this heart and give it to the person that deserves the job

 

Josh deserves an upper echelon schemer... Because Josh's talent is upper echelon in a league full of elite talent

 

And there is a Kyle shanahan waiting in the wings who would kill for a guy with that talent

Since I have more football information stuck in my head the 95% of this board... combined 

 

You do realize Nathaniel Hackett has the savant and guru label applied to him from a young age

 

But we stuck him with EJ Manuel who was replaced by the ghost of Kyle Orton who averaged 250 yd game and gave Sammy Watkins the best year of his career

 

Also gave Blake bortles a year that would be better than any Buffalo quarterback in NFL history before Josh Allen

 

But people think Nathaniel Hackett sucks here but thank God this is a message board because they don't understand coaching

 

Daboll was great for Josh Allen... But the same people refuse to admit Nathaniel hackett's success... And think he's only in the NFL because of a name

 

Not the dozens of NFL front office people who think he's an offensive guru.. who have put their careers on the line because of his name

 

Bills fans don't know much except being whiny

 

Even when we have something good here they don't like to admit it

Who are some of the up-and-coming names? I know Ben Johnson makes a mean run game, I haven't heard the best things about his passing concepts. Who else is out there should we have to look for a new guy? 

Is Dorsey really not an elite schemer, and if so how can you tell?

[Reed83HOF]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You know they just gave Jones a 4-year $160M contract with $81M guaranteed, right?

yup...

 

The Giants have an escape hatch after the 2024 season. They can cut ties with Jones to create $21.5 million in cap savings while eating $18 million in dead money. It’s not ideal to eat $18 million in dead money, but with a projected $282 million salary cap in 2025, the Giants could absorb that hit if they’re compelled to dump Jones

[Beck Water]

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

This is something that elite QB’s go through.  If you are a top offense, your coordinator isn’t going to stay long.

 

Allen might go through 5 OC’s by the time his career is over.  Most, if not all elite QB’s go through multiple coordinators. 

 

This.  Any field - if you're lucky enough to have a top mentor, you need to take all you can get from them, and take it to heart, and meld it into your heart and mind as much as you can.  Because things change.  Mentors retire, get promoted, leave to take different positions elsewhere - all kinds of things change.

 

You're absolutely right.  If a team is successful, the coordinators will get offers. 

 

If a QB can't adjust to different coordinators in today's NFL, he's got a problem.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Even with that 40-0 drubbing on opening night?

 

His roster really isn’t great. He got them to overachieve last season.

46 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

its not like McD was getting booted and Dabes hired. 

 

Though unprecedented, perhaps that is what should have happened.