Bills are adjusting to a lot and are going to get better

[Boatdrinks]

52 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

It it logical or illogical thinking? 

So, what’s the end game here ? BB won’t be coaching here.  Why follow the Bills then , if you truly believe they are doomed to fail because of their coaching staff ? Is that logical or illogical thinking ? 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Partly true but there's more to the story. I'll try to elaborate. 

 

Diggs is the only reliable passing target in the team. The rest of the WR core isn't very good. 

 

The Jets D dominated the predictable and uncreative Bills offense. The Bills can't match up with their defense. The stats back that up from last year to the Monday night game. 

 

Allen gave the game away. I suspect he feels like he's on an island with a unreliable oline, a lack of explosive offensive weapons, and an OC that stinks. He's lost his trust in the offense. He's mentally fragile. His eyes and feet were roaming wildly in a bad way which result in happy feet, panic, and horrific decisions. It's not the first or last time Bills fans will see this. 

 

The team is likely on a descending decline and we saw a glimpse of that in Monday night. This team isn't as good as many think. 

Speaking of WR…. im surprised we didn’t see more of harty through the game with his horizontal speed and ability to turn upfield. I thought we’d see a lot more of those 4-5 yat passes to stay on schedule with opportunities to turn into chunks, 

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Ha!

 

if a top three quarterback in the league isn’t good enough to win the Super Bowl then who is?

 

And what the heck are we complaining about?

 

 

Josh is a top 3 QB in the league because he puts up a lot of stats and wins a lot of games. The problem with him is that he has severe limitations that are easily exploited by even modestly competent DCs. A QB with less of a ceiling but less severe limitations would seemingly be more likely to win a Super Bowl. With the way Allen has regressed over the last year, I can't see any strong coach letting him win in January. It's ez-mode. I've never seen an otherwise elite QB with a more obvious and destructive weakness.

If he fixes it, or Dorsey schemes around it, that will change. If he just keeps living by the sword though, thinking he got unlucky, he'll die by it over and over again when it matters most.

[newcam2012]

29 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Exactly so you embrace what Allen is:  a HOF level elite talent that plays the game like Favre.  You design your offense & offensive philosophy to best exploit Allen's style of play and you surround Allen with the kind of players that thrive in his Helter Skelter world.

 

Or you try to take the edge off Allen and get him to not throw those 50 yard bombs into double coverage or try to run over safeties and maybe if you're lucky he'll turn into a big Drew Breeze or a Kirk Cousins!  More likely though you'll ruin what Makes Allen great and we'll see more and more games like last night.

 

And if Allen's play is incompatible with how defensive minded GM's and head coaches like McD & Bean need in their franchise QB then we can trade Allen now and get multiple 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks over multiple years from 15 - 20 NFL teams.  Imagine how many stud D linemen & corner backs we could accumulate.

 

And I'm not being facetious on trading Allen ( well maybe a little) but all I'm seeing are people slamming Allen for playing like he does.  Sure maybe lightening can strike and he can turn into Brady or Breeze.  I just think that is a long shot with the downside risk of ruining Allen.  So IMO you choose the 1st option and go all in on Allen being Allen.  I really believe there is at least one Super Bowl in our future if we do.  Like the one we should have gotten in 2021.

 

Mahomes says hi.

 

Can we at least give the Jet's D some credit here.  They may have been boasting about being the 85 Bears but their defense is one of the best in the NFL.  They might have 2 of the top 5 corner backs in the league, superior safety's & LB's and a fierce defensive line.

 

 

 

You make good to great points and some a little out there. It was fun reading. 

 

Firstly, you don't trade Allen. That's not even an option. End of discussion.

 

Secondly, you implied about building around Allen. 100 percent accurate here. Has the Bills regime done a good enough job here? Built a solid oline? Dangerous weapons? Etc... I'll let that be a rhetorical question. 

 

Thirdly,, I think there has to be a happy medium of restraining Allen and yet letting him do what he does best. 

 

Reckless throws cannot be accepted or tolerated. Seems like Dorsey or McD aren't able to reign in Allen. Perhaps Allen is unable to restrain himself. Maybe it's a combo of both. Wherever the blame lies it sure hasn't stopped. Allen has been a consistent turnover machine. I don't think it's ok to accept that and say it is what it is. Roll with it sort of speak. Some turnovers are just great D plays made by great players. That wasn't the case on Monday night. Allen was every bit of a rookie like QB. Making poor decisions that were beyond head scratching. Almost to the point of disgust. How many times did you say WTF was that?  I know I said that in the TD pass to Diggs. 

 

Lastly, I'd like to briefly discuss coaching and schemes. I believe the lack of has contributed to Allen's short comings. Dorsey and Allen don't seem to be on the same page, the run game is an after thought, and offensive creativity and explosiveness is almost non existent. McD seems to be hands off on the offensive side of the ball. In today's game, I want an offensive, creative, and innovative coach. McD is anything but that. Do you have faith his defense is going to led the Bills to a SB appearance? I don't!  It will likely be statically good which again is deceptive. Come playoff time good times will exploit his D. It's been a constant theme. 

 

Let's be honest here. The love for Allen by Bills fans is great. He's our guy! I proudly wear my number 17 jersey. However, he hasn't played up to high standards for quite some time. Something really has to change. I'm not smart enough to have the answers. 

 

The Bills still win despite of it's weaknesses, flaws, and inconsistent play. In a way that is the problem. Hear me out. Winning and making the playoffs is largely a successful season by fan's standards. That's exactly what Buffalo has done for six straight years. A pretty remarkable feat honestly. That keeps people, coaches, and players safe from lots of criticism. It can prevent change because things appear very good. I think that's exactly what's happening in Bflo. Change can absolutely make things worse. Change is scary. 

 

Ask yourself is the change worth it? Are   McD, Dorsey, and Beane the trio to take the team further? Are there potentially better options? Are you satisfied with the direction of the team? What are your realistic expectations of the team? What's a successful season at this point? 

 

Have a great day Bills fans. 

[newcam2012]

28 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Speaking of WR…. im surprised we didn’t see more of harty through the game with his horizontal speed and ability to turn upfield. I thought we’d see a lot more of those 4-5 yat passes to stay on schedule with opportunities to turn into chunks, 

That surprised me too. I was really expecting quick slants, lots of motion, and movement. The offensive game plan was perplexing. I thought the first half wasn't too bad. It was acceptable. Allen was taking the short throws and being somewhat effective vs a very tough D. 

 

Everything went out the window in the 2nd half. Allen clearly lost his poise. Yet, he was still about to lead his team to the game tying FG. That's how good Allen and his team can be. 

 

Come OT and winning the coin toss was great. I thought Allen is going to match down and get a TD or at least a FG. I really felt good about the Bills scoring. Three and out was horrible. The offense looked lost, flat, and predictable. Extremely disappointing finish. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Partly true but there's more to the story. I'll try to elaborate. 

 

Diggs is the only reliable passing target in the team. The rest of the WR core isn't very good. 

 

The Jets D dominated the predictable and uncreative Bills offense. The Bills can't match up with their defense. The stats back that up from last year to the Monday night game. 

 

Allen gave the game away. I suspect he feels like he's on an island with a unreliable oline, a lack of explosive offensive weapons, and an OC that stinks. He's lost his trust in the offense. He's mentally fragile. His eyes and feet were roaming wildly in a bad way which result in happy feet, panic, and horrific decisions. It's not the first or last time Bills fans will see this. 

 

The team is likely on a descending decline and we saw a glimpse of that in Monday night. This team isn't as good as many think. 

Very interesting analysis Newcam.  

 

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

With respect, this post really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 

 

The offense and Allen were terrible. Yes, the Jets D had something to do with it. 

 

I fail to see how the Bills "new look offense" negatively effected the Bills O. Frankly, I didn't see a "new look offense." I saw a disjointed, frantic, out of rhythm, no synchrony, lack of run game, little motion, and a predictable offense.  I barely noticed 12 personnel and it had really no significant impact on the Jets defense.

 

Kincaid catches two balls and Bills fans are googly eyed over his performance. Really? Lots of Bills fans just see things through a weird lens. That performance was not anything to get excited about. Lions TE Sam Laporta on a real offense looked 5xs as good as Kincaid. Not because he's better but because the Lions offense with a mediocre  QB Goff and OC Johnson is better. That says a lot about the Bills and not in a good way. 

 

Allen sucked! It had nothing to do with a new offense. The crowd noise and 911 had nothing to do with it either. The crowd was stunned and in shock after the Rodgers injury. It sucked the life right out of the Jets. The Bills failed to pounce on the "mentally injured" Jets. 

 

Sure there were a few bright spots but overall this game was a collosal failure by the Bills. A failed opportunity to win. A game Allen gave away. An offense that looked anything but dynamic and innovative. It looked predictable, uncreative, and anything but explosive. The oline got pushed around pretty good. Dorsey did nothing to combat the Jets D. Little motion, little deception, didn't commit to the run game, etc...

 

This opening game was the opposite of encouraging. Hard to see how the most optimistic fans can see a lot good from this offense. Besides Diggs there wasn't much else to like. Cook looked OK but he's far from elite or a game changer, the WR core stinks, and Knox and Kincaid doesn't scare any defense. The oline is still subpar. The offense was painful to watch. 

 

It's one game and a lot has to change for the good. Sure it's possible and likely to happen. It's nothing but upwards because it can't get much worse. 

 

This team needs a new offensive philosophy and a new coaching regime from top to bottom. Monday night showed the flaws of the team, players, and coaching. 

 

It wasn't the loss it was the way they lost. It was the examination of a lack of player talent and a flawed roster. It was a lack of coaching adjustments . It was a lack of killer instinct and the sighting of a soft team. It was the epiphany of a coach McD team. 

Very interesting analysis Newcam.  I like your posts.  You see the big picture pretty well.  I was pretty sickened after the loss.  Thought I was in the twilight zone.  With Rodgers going down, we should have won by 20 easily.  McDermott doesn't try and crush teams.  He lacks that killer instinct.  And the roster is lacking a lot of juice in spots.  We have not drafted particularly well, and have a lot of mediocre middling type players who are not game changers.  Diggs will be great for maybe another 2 years after this.  Seriously who will take his place.  There is noone else on the roster at WR who is anything remotely special.  Kincaid should be a big timer.  But he needs to be running up the seams like he did at Utah.  We were better at WR when we had Sanders and Beasley to complement Diggs.  Davis scares noone as a #2 WR.  He is just not athletic enough.  The offense was pretty bland and predictable against the Jets.  And Josh feels he has to take matters into his own hands.  And the results were not good.

 

Personally, I believe the organization from top to bottom is still reeling over the 13 seconds loss to KC and the debacle last year against Cinci in the playoffs.  We need some big wins to get the team back on its winning axis and let the league and our own players feel like we can compete at the top of the NFL again.  We should beat down Las Vegas and Washington (at least I hope).  But the big test will come weeks 4 and 5 against Miami and Jax.  After week 5 we should have a good idea of where this team is and is heading.  

[newcam2012]

39 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

So, what’s the end game here ? BB won’t be coaching here.  Why follow the Bills then , if you truly believe they are doomed to fail because of their coaching staff ? Is that logical or illogical thinking ? 

I'm not saying they are doomed. I'm hopeful the Bills can progress and improve. Hoping they can be a top tier team and represent the AFC. It's certainly possible. I think it's unlikely but that's irrelevant. I'll never give up hope even if I remain skeptical. 

5 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Very interesting analysis Newcam.  

 

Very interesting analysis Newcam.  I like your posts.  You see the big picture pretty well.  I was pretty sickened after the loss.  Thought I was in the twilight zone.  With Rodgers going down, we should have won by 20 easily.  McDermott doesn't try and crush teams.  He lacks that killer instinct.  And the roster is lacking a lot of juice in spots.  We have not drafted particularly well, and have a lot of mediocre middling type players who are not game changers.  Diggs will be great for maybe another 2 years after this.  Seriously who will take his place.  There is noone else on the roster at WR who is anything remotely special.  Kincaid should be a big timer.  But he needs to be running up the seams like he did at Utah.  We were better at WR when we had Sanders and Beasley to complement Diggs.  Davis scares noone as a #2 WR.  He is just not athletic enough.  The offense was pretty bland and predictable against the Jets.  And Josh feels he has to take matters into his own hands.  And the results were not good.

 

Personally, I believe the organization from top to bottom is still reeling over the 13 seconds loss to KC and the debacle last year against Cinci in the playoffs.  We need some big wins to get the team back on its winning axis and let the league and our own players feel like we can compete at the top of the NFL again.  We should beat down Las Vegas and Washington (at least I hope).  But the big test will come weeks 4 and 5 against Miami and Jax.  After week 5 we should have a good idea of where this team is and is heading.  

Nice post Paul. You said what I'm thinking in a more professional manner. 

 

Really interesting thought on the team still suffering from 13 seconds and the Cincy loss. I never considered that angle. Frankly, it makes a lot of sense. Seems like the team and the regime hasn't fully recovered from that. Asca fan, I'm still scarred. 

 

 

[WyoAZBillfan]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Absolutely agree here.

 

BB + OC OBrien + NE+ Allen = Lombardi Trophy.

 

McD + OC Dorsey+ Bflo + Allen = Early playoff exits. 6 equations to look at. 

 

Coaching matters people. 

How did OBrien do in Houston? How long was BB flailing around before he got a QB that win those games, moved on and won another big chip. Context matters too. 

[27yankees]

Throw the week 1 game in the vault or trash for that matter;  go slap each other around for a few minutes (give Josh a blanket party to wake is hindparts up), buckle-up and go kick Raider butt. 

[WyoAZBillfan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

How do we know that? He's never come remotely close.

AFFC game? How remote you want? Playoffs a few times now…. That’s kinda close to SB, maybe not what we as fans want but much better than “in the hunt for the playoffs”. 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Have we all taken our deep breaths yet?

 

Let's be honest, the Bills have wildly shifted their offensive philosophy. I understand it didn't necessarily look like that in the game against the Jets, but the Bills went from being the team with the lowest percentage of 12 personnel in the NFL last season to being the highest in week 1.

 

That signals a massive offensive philosophy shift.

 

But obviously it didn't look like that on the field, which was really just because of poor choices by Josh yesterday.

 

Josh played what I think was his worst game in the NFL yesterday.

 

So what? Disregard his previous 5 years? It took 5 years, but suddenly he's figured out?

 

Idiotic.

 

Josh will have bad games in the future obviously, but I think he needs to get his feet under him in this offensive philosophy. The Jets, in hindsight, may have been the worst team to trot out a new offensive philosophy and try to get comfortable against.

 

It was Monday night on September 11th in the general metropolitan area and the atmosphere was clearly electric. Hero Ball from Josh seemed almost inevitable looking back on it.

 

On top of all this, Sean McDermott is calling the defense (with a brand new young MLB) for the first time ever as Head Coach... mighta been an issue... particularly on an 83 yard run where everyone was misaligned.

 

I was actually impressed with the play of Bernard and especially Benford on our D.

 

 

I just think this idea that this national narrative in the offseason that "the Bills didn't improve because they stayed the same" is, at best, half true.

 

We still have to wait to see if the Bills improved... but a lot has changed:

 

Shift to 12 personnel 

All the offensive philosophies that go with that

Shift to HC as DC (How much is he in Josh's ear)

2 new OL

New QB of the Defense in Bernard 

New CB2

etc.

 

The Bills need to start cutting down on Gabe Davis snaps. 

 

There is no reason he needs to be on the field for 99% of snaps. 

 

I know this coaching staff hates Khalil Shakir, but I still not sure why he's only getting 7 snaps a game. 

 

How many more 2-32 yard games does this staff need to see from Gabe Davis?

 

In the meantime, I don't blame Josh for over targeting Diggs, and moving Knox/Kincaid to #2 and #3 in targets, and avoiding Gabe Davis and probably Deonte Harty. 

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, WyoAZBillfan said:

AFFC game? How remote you want? Playoffs a few times now…. That’s kinda close to SB, maybe not what we as fans want but much better than “in the hunt for the playoffs”. 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

He got blown out in the AFCCG by a team who in turn got blown out by the Super Bowl Champion. Mark Sanchez made back-to-back AFCCGs - it doesn't mean he was close to winning a Super Bowl either.

His best chance was probably 2021, but he was 3 wins away from winning that one.   Throughout his playoff history, he's laid plenty of eggs. He played terribly against the Dolphins and got bailed out. Wasn't as lucky against the Texans. He lit up a New England team that didn't belong, Played great against KC once and mediocre to poor another time, and was embarrassed by the Bengals last season. If he lit everyone up and just ran into a Mahomes meatgrinder I'd be more forgiving, but I think it's more likely their luck runs out against up and coming teams.

If he controlled the pace of play more deliberately, he'd have a better chance of dictating playoff success, imo. He looks his best when the ball comes out of his hands at the top of his drop (like the 2 minute drill against the Jets). It's when he holds the ball that the bad decisions and hero ball comes out.

[billykay]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

That surprised me too. I was really expecting quick slants, lots of motion, and movement. The offensive game plan was perplexing. I thought the first half wasn't too bad. It was acceptable. Allen was taking the short throws and being somewhat effective vs a very tough D. 

 

Everything went out the window in the 2nd half. Allen clearly lost his poise. Yet, he was still about to lead his team to the game tying FG. That's how good Allen and his team can be. 

 

Come OT and winning the coin toss was great. I thought Allen is going to match down and get a TD or at least a FG. I really felt good about the Bills scoring. Three and out was horrible. The offense looked lost, flat, and predictable. Extremely disappointing finish. 

In O.T., 2nd and 15. we run the ball ????

[julian]

It’s all the same posts from the same posters good and bad after every loss, thankfully Allen doesn’t lose often, next couple weeks should bring out the glass half full crowd and silence the doubters until the next loss.

 

Bills 45

Raiders 13

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

These games shouldn’t happen in Year 6.  Bad games happen but this was at a different level.

 

Seriously?

 

This was the worst game of Josh Allen's career.  But Josh said today that he may have another game he throws 3 interceptions.  That's just reality.

 

Peyton Manning had four 4 interception games and one 6 interception game with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Aaron Rodgers had two 3 interception games with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Tom Brady had two 4 interception games with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Drew Brees had four 3 interception games, two 4 interception games, and one 5 interception game with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Mahomes had a 3 interception game last year.  Burrow had a 4 interception game last year.

 

 

Saying this game by Josh was at a different level of badness is just a myopic perspective.

[Royale with Cheese]

49 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Seriously?

 

This was the worst game of Josh Allen's career.  But Josh said today that he may have another game he throws 3 interceptions.  That's just reality.

 

Peyton Manning had four 4 interception games and one 6 interception game with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Aaron Rodgers had two 3 interception games with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Tom Brady had two 4 interception games with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Drew Brees had four 3 interception games, two 4 interception games, and one 5 interception game with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Mahomes had a 3 interception game last year.  Burrow had a 4 interception game last year.

 

 

Saying this game by Josh was at a different level of badness is just a myopic perspective.

You’re completely ignoring the major issue and context. Its not that Allen just had turnovers, its how he had the turnovers.

 

If he sits back and makes the wrong read and he’s picked a few times, yeah it sucks.  But when he’s bailing early from pockets and throwing it downfield for no reason into double coverage…yeah that shouldn’t happen, especially twice in one game.

 

Then he fumbles the snap, tries to pick it up and run without looking to fumble again.  Come on.

 

Stop box score evaluating and understand context.
 

Allen is getting killed in the media for being wreckless and immature….they’re not wrong.

 

So yes, seriously.

[transplantbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

You’re completely ignoring the major issue and context. Its not that Allen just had turnovers, its how he had the turnovers.

 

If he sits back and makes the wrong read and he’s picked a few times, yeah it sucks.  But when he’s bailing early from pockets and throwing it downfield for no reason into double coverage…yeah that shouldn’t happen, especially twice in one game.

 

Then he fumbles the snap, tries to pick it up and run without looking to fumble again.  Come on.

 

Stop box score evaluating and understand context.
 

Allen is getting killed in the media for being wreckless and immature….they’re not wrong.

 

So yes, seriously.

 

Before making a statement like "this was on another level," you should have gone back to understand the context of all those multi interception games by all those HOF/Elite QBs.

 

Myopic viewpoint without those.

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Seriously?

 

This was the worst game of Josh Allen's career.  But Josh said today that he may have another game he throws 3 interceptions.  That's just reality.

 

Peyton Manning had four 4 interception games and one 6 interception game with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Aaron Rodgers had two 3 interception games with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Tom Brady had two 4 interception games with at least 6 years experience in the NFL.

 

Drew Brees had four 3 interception games, 

 

Saying this game by Josh was at a different level of badness is just a myopic perspective.

Were those guys up by 10 at halftime and playing against a back up QB in those games?

[3rdand12]

11 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

With respect, this post really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 

 

The offense and Allen were terrible. Yes, the Jets D had something to do with it. 

 

I fail to see how the Bills "new look offense" negatively effected the Bills O. Frankly, I didn't see a "new look offense." I saw a disjointed, frantic, out of rhythm, no synchrony, lack of run game, little motion, and a predictable offense.  I barely noticed 12 personnel and it had really no significant impact on the Jets defense.

 

Kincaid catches two balls and Bills fans are googly eyed over his performance. Really? Lots of Bills fans just see things through a weird lens. That performance was not anything to get excited about. Lions TE Sam Laporta on a real offense looked 5xs as good as Kincaid. Not because he's better but because the Lions offense with a mediocre  QB Goff and OC Johnson is better. That says a lot about the Bills and not in a good way. 

 

Allen sucked! It had nothing to do with a new offense. The crowd noise and 911 had nothing to do with it either. The crowd was stunned and in shock after the Rodgers injury. It sucked the life right out of the Jets. The Bills failed to pounce on the "mentally injured" Jets. 

 

Sure there were a few bright spots but overall this game was a collosal failure by the Bills. A failed opportunity to win. A game Allen gave away. An offense that looked anything but dynamic and innovative. It looked predictable, uncreative, and anything but explosive. The oline got pushed around pretty good. Dorsey did nothing to combat the Jets D. Little motion, little deception, didn't commit to the run game, etc...

 

This opening game was the opposite of encouraging. Hard to see how the most optimistic fans can see a lot good from this offense. Besides Diggs there wasn't much else to like. Cook looked OK but he's far from elite or a game changer, the WR core stinks, and Knox and Kincaid doesn't scare any defense. The oline is still subpar. The offense was painful to watch. 

 

It's one game and a lot has to change for the good. Sure it's possible and likely to happen. It's nothing but upwards because it can't get much worse. 

 

This team needs a new offensive philosophy and a new coaching regime from top to bottom. Monday night showed the flaws of the team, players, and coaching. 

 

It wasn't the loss it was the way they lost. It was the examination of a lack of player talent and a flawed roster. It was a lack of coaching adjustments . It was a lack of killer instinct and the sighting of a soft team. It was the epiphany of a coach McD team. 

I dont think it was lack of player talent, full stop 

[Bangarang]

Classic transplant fluff piece.