What will happen with Josh over the next month?

[die hard bills fan]

Josh is ultra competitive and winning is everything and that's why he takes risks.  I hope he realizes now that his risky play can cause a loss rather than a win.  I think he learns from this and takes the next step to be elite.  If a game like this had to happen, I am glad it was the first game.

[Fan in Chicago]

9 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

If it all plays out as expected the Bills will SCORE MORE POINTS IN THE FIRST HALF, leaving Josh out of HERO BALL situations.

Yes it is that simple

You do know the half time score against the Jets, don't you? 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

 

the regime's inability to put a varsity level OL in front of Josh is going to be his and their undoing

 

We're seeing the effect of this in Josh's play

You aren’t wrong till recently Beanes been able to get away with short changing the oline to load up on defense. It’s caught up to them. Josh played terrible but I think there’s something about his mindset when he plays the Jets he just can’t help himself.  

Edited September 13, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[HOUSE]

6 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

You do know the half time score against the Jets, don't you? 

The Bills have a good enough offense to bury teams in the first half but they rarely do. To many stalled drives

[PayDaBill$]

 

 

Biggest issues facing JA is maturity.  Let’s be honest what we saw game 1 was a direct carryover from what we saw from the GB game on last season.  That’s scary! Nothing changed.

 

Not sure what the catalyst is, personal life, believing your own hype, not being a “serious” student of the game (see most of the greats),  whatever but he really needs to buckle down.  He has the physical attributes and all the tools.  
 

Unfortunately JA has really taken a step back.  All we’re seeing now is a qb that looks to  rattle easily.
 

This isn’t a guy who looks like he currently grasps what it takes to be a NFL great. 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[KOKBILLS]

11 hours ago, Simon said:

Whaddya got?

 

Here's my guess:

 

Twofold problem right now 1) He hasn't started trusting his OLine yet after last year's debacle and it's affecting is ability to process and see the field and 2) He loves to challenge himself to make amazing plays, because it's fun

 

It doesn't make him stupid, selfish or scared because he's none of those things, but it does make him a turnover prone QB and he knows that has to change. So he decides to make the change.

Eventually I think he will do so successfully but these next few weeks are going to be hard. Every time he drops back he's going to have his own voice in his head telling him "No, don't bail yet", "No, don't try that throw",  "No, don't take that guy on for an extra yard" and that is going to be very distracting and make it very hard for him to find the Zone. During this time he'll likely do a better job of protecting the ball, but it's probably going to come at the price of making him a less efficient QB.

If he sticks with it and stays patient, eventually that voice will go away, he'll get out of his own head and the decision-making process will become more organic and less forced. At that point he'll start being able to get back in the Zone and then we'll see him spreading the ball around and cutting people up the way we know he can. When this happens, woe to anybody who thinks they can still run man schemes against the Bills offense.

Stay focused and patient young buck, you'll find that place again....

 

I totally agree with this take... But admittedly I'm massively disappointed it ever got here. And a lot of my frustration is directly pointed at Josh. I think what a lot of us forget is how smart he is. He is SUPER smart... So...I guess knowing that I'm much more black and white on these things. I figure, by now, his game should be going in a much more positive direction because he's smart enough to know right from wrong. But something happens out there with him that I'm obviously not smart enough to figure out... 

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

Idk, he's in year six and from halftime of the GB game last year, Josh hasn't been the same. Daboll turned the biggest question mark QB from his draft year into a superstar. Two years ago was Allen's best season, and also Daboll's last season in Buffalo. I think the Bills dropped the ball by promoting Dorsey. Listening to Dan Orlovsky on OBL today really opened my eyes. The guy had some real interesting observations about Allen and the offense. He said there were seven plays that really stood out to him about Allen's play. The guy pays attention to detail. He would make an incredible OC if he wanted the opportunity. But I think he is perfectly happy doing what he is doing. He wasn't a great NFL QB, but he is very smart. Kinda like Jordan Palmer. He sucked as a QB but he has helped many others with their mechanics. Some guys have the brains, but not the physical talent to be a successful NFL QB. Josh needs to get his head out of his ass, and quick. 

 

 

Last year, under Dorsey, Josh threw 14 INTs. Fourteen.

 

Of course, in 2021, Daboll's last year, Josh threw 15 INTs. 

 

Fifteen.

 

IMO the Daboll thing is overblown. There is still a lot for Dorsey to prove, but Josh's arm injury last year probably had as much to do with his problems as Dorsey did, and his inability to find a good slot after Crowder was almost immediately injured.

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 hours ago, Simon said:

Whaddya got?

 

Here's my guess:

 

Twofold problem right now 1) He hasn't started trusting his OLine yet after last year's debacle and it's affecting is ability to process and see the field and 2) He loves to challenge himself to make amazing plays, because it's fun

 

It doesn't make him stupid, selfish or scared because he's none of those things, but it does make him a turnover prone QB and he knows that has to change. So he decides to make the change.

Eventually I think he will do so successfully but these next few weeks are going to be hard. Every time he drops back he's going to have his own voice in his head telling him "No, don't bail yet", "No, don't try that throw",  "No, don't take that guy on for an extra yard" and that is going to be very distracting and make it very hard for him to find the Zone. During this time he'll likely do a better job of protecting the ball, but it's probably going to come at the price of making him a less efficient QB.

If he sticks with it and stays patient, eventually that voice will go away, he'll get out of his own head and the decision-making process will become more organic and less forced. At that point he'll start being able to get back in the Zone and then we'll see him spreading the ball around and cutting people up the way we know he can. When this happens, woe to anybody who thinks they can still run man schemes against the Bills offense.

Stay focused and patient young buck, you'll find that place again....

Im going to throw this out there and I would love to get your opinion Simon as well as others. He kinda reminds me of Elway, Gun sling even to death. Once he was put in Shanahans WCO and forced to take 3-5-7 step drops and get the ball out ON TIME and on target he won 2 superbowls.  He quit relying on his shoulder and relied more on his mind and his coaching/system and his team mates. The long ball was still there, but it wasn't a staple.

Mahomes, Rogers etal play in this same system. Mahomes has been to the superbowl, Been an MVP, Superbowl MVP doing this As has Rogers and they did so Recently so the system isn't outdated.  Brady was the master of taking what was there and killing teams by a thousand cuts.  I think we need to put a saddle on the horse to break him down a little and get him thinking more with his head than focusing on his arm.

Some will say "well thats just how he is". If so, I don't see us winning a superbowl with him. Favre got lucky with his style to win one. Marino another pure gunslinger got to 1, but had tons of records.  I don't know what the solution is, but I really think a new system, and one that forces him to use his brain and the running game more would benefit him for the rest of his career.  Just a thought.

Edited September 13, 2023 by SoonerBillsFan

[dorquemada]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Last year, under Dorsey, Josh threw 14 INTs. Fourteen.

 

Of course, in 2021, Daboll's last year, Josh threw 15 INTs.

 

 

So maybe we start a JA INT pool.  He's on track for 51, but let's take half of that and declare over under

 

25 INTs, i'll take the over

[Mango]

11 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Coach McDermott: “Josh we are going to train you to play to 45 like Tom Brady.

 

Josh Allen: “How?”

 

Coach McD: “By putting lead ankle weights on you.”

 

Josh Allen: “But how will I escape the pass rush?”

 

Coach McD: “You will learn how to read defenses navigate the pocket, and get the ball out consistently.”

 

Josh Allen: “Okay. But what if I need to hurdle a Linebacker?” 
 

Coach McD: “You won’t be able to.”

This is a lot of words to say “not a great passer”.

 

Josh will figure out how to sustain success as the front man for an entire franchise or he won’t. I think he will. But becoming a better passer and less erratic is an absolute necessity. He has 35 turnovers in his last 19 games. (365 days) If the only way to not do that is to not play like Brady or whatever you’re insinuating, then I don’t think Josh will ever be capable of not giving the ball away twice per game.  
 

And if Josh Allen can’t keep the ball out of the other teams hands twice per game his career will go the direction of Carson Wentz. 
 

Josh can do it, but learning to protect himself and the ball isn’t part of the problem it is the only solution. 

 

[2003Contenders]

Josh is a gambler and a gunslinger -- that's just who he is. Trying to coach that out of him leads to him over-thinking and playing somewhat "unnatural".

 

What Josh needs to learn is WHEN to take those shots -- and when to be more cautious with the ball. That is true from a field position/down-and-distance situation as well as game flow. Going into the game against that Jets defense, we knew that points were going to be at a premium. That is why McD elected to kick the short field goal rather than go for it on 4th and short early in the game. Nursing a 10-point lead at half time against such a stout Jets defense with an opposing offense led by Zack Wilson, the plan should have been to play it "safe".

 

Also, Dorsey deserves some of the blame here too. There is no reason in that situation that Josh should have dropped back to pass 40+ times.

 

If all the offense did was go three-and-out the entire 2nd half, they probably win the game. Marty Ball is very boring -- and will not win games against opposing teams with good offenses -- but against that Jets team on Monday night, that would have been the recipe for success.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Too many cooks in the kitchen and by trying to appease them all, he's getting away from his game.  Now his head is all messed up and he's not processing correctly in my opinion.  Say what you will about Dabol, but i do believe he was the one constant in Josh's head.  Now it seems he has too many cooks in the kitchen.  We know Diggs stated just get in the air and I'll make the play - well what did Josh do, forced prayers to Diggs that had no reason to be thrown.  And then you got both McDermott and Diggs pointing at their head to Josh on national Tv to use his head and be smart.   

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/michael-irvin-blasts-bills-stefon-diggs-sean-mcdermott-for-how-they-treat-josh-allen/ar-AA1gCG18

 

So I agree with Simon that he needs to get out of his own head, but he needs to cut out all the outside cooks - to include trying to appease Diggs and let it come naturally.  

We select a rocket armed QB and the entire WR room are guys that can't win vertically. 

 

Allen has a balanced Diggs, a black hole of nothingness as a #2, two Tight Ends, a 5'6" gadget guy and a couple of running backs to throw to. 

 

Also, the Bills haven't fixed RT for over 3 years now and Allen moves instinctively because Brown stinks yet again. 

 

He's a reckless QB chained in a possession offense because of personnel. 

 

To me, it's 1/2 Josh and 1/2 the FO build of this roster. 

[dpberr]

He better get straightened out emotionally and cognitively.  Can't play like he just snorted the entire bag of cocaine in the tunnel before warmups.

Edited September 13, 2023 by dpberr

[TheBrownBear]

I'm deeply concerned like the rest of you.  He hasn't been the same guy over the past 12 or so games.  He lacks poise and just doesn't exhibit the same confidence, decisiveness or on field leadership.  He's obviously struggling with the mental side of the game, but I believe his mechanics have backslid over the past year or so as well.  Even when he was playing well early on last year, I saw things with the way he took his drops and set his base (or didn't) that concerned me.  Not sure if the pressure of leading the franchise to the Super Bowl is too much for him or what, but I can easily see things unraveling for him this year if he doesn't get this turned around quick.  I think Dorsey and McDermott need to really simplify things, dumb it down, and provide more conservative game plans for him over the next few weeks (similar to the Browns and 2nd Jets games last year).  He needs to play a couple of clean games to help build his confidence.  

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, Simon said:

Whaddya got?

 

Here's my guess:

 

Twofold problem right now 1) He hasn't started trusting his OLine yet after last year's debacle and it's affecting is ability to process and see the field and 2) He loves to challenge himself to make amazing plays, because it's fun

 

It doesn't make him stupid, selfish or scared because he's none of those things, but it does make him a turnover prone QB and he knows that has to change. So he decides to make the change.

Eventually I think he will do so successfully but these next few weeks are going to be hard. Every time he drops back he's going to have his own voice in his head telling him "No, don't bail yet", "No, don't try that throw",  "No, don't take that guy on for an extra yard" and that is going to be very distracting and make it very hard for him to find the Zone. During this time he'll likely do a better job of protecting the ball, but it's probably going to come at the price of making him a less efficient QB.

If he sticks with it and stays patient, eventually that voice will go away, he'll get out of his own head and the decision-making process will become more organic and less forced. At that point he'll start being able to get back in the Zone and then we'll see him spreading the ball around and cutting people up the way we know he can. When this happens, woe to anybody who thinks they can still run man schemes against the Bills offense.

Stay focused and patient young buck, you'll find that place again....

 

I think he also wasn't used to the speed of the game and the Jets are a fast physical defense. It's week one and training camp doesn't give that to you.  Tough defense to start the year with, with no work. Josh will be fine. He is always going to turn the ball over because he is going to take those chances.  He needs to get back to doing that less often and also scoring more so it doesn't matter though.

 

I mean people keep saying "take what the defense gives you."  Yeah, to a certain extent, but that is also designed to stop you and did often.  It's easier for KC to take what the defense gives you because those 3 yard passes get yac.  Our guys don't do that.  Our 3 yard passes are a guy thats turned around and stopped still or a guy that has no speed to separate so he is tackled immediately. Can't take check downs all game every game... thats what the defense is giving us. Those don't score points.  They just turn into punts.  People are going to complain every time they see that one guy 2 yards away because the downfield pass didn't work.  Well the flipside is people are going to complain we are always punting too when the same downfield guy doesn't get thrown to.  Go ahead and roll eyes, gimme the thumbs down and the big red checkmark but I'm not wrong.  

Edited September 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[Nihilarian]

Much man love for #17!

 

He is a gunslinger and does things that a gunslinger does at times. I believe that he is also very very smart and will correct this turnover problem. 

 

The Buffalo Bills run that Patriots-type scheme ( Erhardt-Perkins ) It would be great if Josh would replicate that Tom Brady style of just moving the chains to make first down after first down till the end zone. Patience grasshopper patience! 

[Chaos]

Is it possible to merge all of the what is wrong with Josh threads into one place?

[AuntieEm]

14 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Too many cooks in the kitchen and by trying to appease them all, he's getting away from his game.  Now his head is all messed up and he's not processing correctly in my opinion.  Say what you will about Dabol, but i do believe he was the one constant in Josh's head.  Now it seems he has too many cooks in the kitchen.  We know Diggs stated just get in the air and I'll make the play - well what did Josh do, forced prayers to Diggs that had no reason to be thrown.  And then you got both McDermott and Diggs pointing at their head to Josh on national Tv to use his head and be smart.   

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/michael-irvin-blasts-bills-stefon-diggs-sean-mcdermott-for-how-they-treat-josh-allen/ar-AA1gCG18

 

So I agree with Simon that he needs to get out of his own head, but he needs to cut out all the outside cooks - to include trying to appease Diggs and let it come naturally.  

I think it's that he knows Diggs will do all he can to get the ball so he doesn't hesitate to throw to Diggs.  Everyone knows that too it's not a secret.

[ALLinALLEN]

In all due respect, with so much on the line (coaches and players jobs, etc.), your own part 2 is what makes Josh Allen dumb.

[Scott7975]

14 hours ago, zow2 said:

When things get too mental with him, he should just start running his ass off.  Not this indecisive running but really taking off.  injuries be damned.  He’s at his best doing two things, throwing on the run and scrambling with conviction. 

The problem is the coaches for three seasons are trying to ingrain in him not to run the football, so he has conflicting voices in his head and that stops him from committing. They need to stop trying to coach Josh out of Josh. That heave to double covered diggs would have been a first down a season or two ago and the Jets D would have been demoralized. 

14 hours ago, BobBelcher said:

funny thing is I think that was the plan on the 1st and 10 fumble right after bills took over following jets TD to tie the game. Looked like a designed run, but by that time the sugar high was peaking and he botched the snap, recovered it and lost it again!

 

its just weird how lately when things start to unravel with Allen, the unraveling begins at a time when he is playing well and we actually have control of the game, but then he will keep unraveling until we have inexplicably lost our lead altogether and only THEN end does he seem to snap out of it, 

that wasn’t a designed run. Josh fumbled the ball because it was a designed quick pass to the right and he cheated and started looking right before the snap got to him.