Update: All -22 stuff Joe Marino Locked on Bills, Now Cover 1 w/ play breakdowns

[Royale with Cheese]

26 minutes ago, teef said:

i had a 6 pack surgically implanted.  

 

Instead of paying for surgery to get abs, you could have just exclusively made your diet Korean food and you would had the same result.

[colin]

josh was just unprepared and impatient.  immature is the best description i've seen of him.  he was told what to do, he knew what he had been doing was failing, but, once the rubber hit the road, he did the thing that he did before and not what he was told to do.

 

It's pretty clear at this point that Josh is not good at reading defenses.  the safety picking him off 3x means he basically didn't see the guy 3 times.  part of reading a d is moving one's eyes away from the disadvantage match up towards the advantage match up.  Josh sees a match up he wants to work (deep ball, etc) and stares and process it looking for a way to make it work.  the tight ends running open, even diggs open shorter on the one pick, he simply doesn't move towards them enough.

 

I think he (perhaps subconsciously) just decided to play that way after the drive we scored a FG on early (where it was 4 and 2 and mcdermot kicked, which i don't have a beef with).  he threw the ball a tad late to the rb who ran a long way on third and long but ended up just short.  IMO this and a couple other plays like that lead josh to saying "ok, i tried the game plan on 3 or 4 snaps, and it was close but didn't get there, so now im justified in just doing my own thing" in his head.

 

there is something wrong w our play design/what josh is reading tho because we were so so bad on 1st down.  1st down is max advantage for the O, but either the jets baited us like masters (lol) into getting sacked and making mistakes, or we just aren't doing something right as a team there.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

Thanks this is what I was alluding to. Shanahan is the best offensive mind in the league and I’m not sure it’s that close. Reid is a great play caller but as far as designing plays, KS is at another level. People laughed when I said it’s over for the rest of the league now that he has CMC but I meant it. They haven’t lost since the trade happened (unless you can’t the game where they played without an QB). And now he’s had a whole offseason to design stuff up with CMC and these weapons. It really is hard to imagine them not winning it this year barring injury. He damn near won it with Jimmy G and Matt Ryan, and Purdy gives them something a little extra. The proof is there. If you run his plays, you’re going to win. Watch their games. Please just sit and watch. There are guys open every damn time. WIDE OPEN. With space to run too. I wish Dorsey would just steal like 3 or 4 of his plays to get someone some separation. 
 

I love josh but he doesn’t fit in the KS system where you are asked to pick the open target from like 3 wide open choices and then dump it to them and let them YAC the defense to death. The minute josh goes off script, KS would pull his hair out. Unless you simply think josh is going to change his ways all of a sudden. 

 

Yea he just needs to let someone else call the plays in the 4th Quarter of the Superbowl. 

[White Linen]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

Joe Marino is spot on. Monday was on Josh Allen. Nobody else.

 

C'mon Gunner.  You know better or should. 

[teef]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Instead of paying for surgery to get abs, you could have just exclusively made your diet Korean food and you would had the same result.

chewing sounds like work.

[ddaryl]

4 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I don't disagree with anything you said at all but when you see that there were plays underneath on the all-22 that he didn't take, you need to ask why he didn't take the easy play.

 

I'm not asking him to turn into captain checkdown and throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20 but when he's throwing bombs on 2nd and 10 with guys open 4-5 yards in front of him, it's a question that needs to be asked why he's not taking those.

Crazy thing this is exactly the flaws we saw last year as teams find ways to defend JA. A bunch of us were screaming to just move the chains and stop with the hero ball. Against the Jets he was exactly the QB he was at the ending of last year. For JA to be great and to stay on a HoF trajectory he has to learn the underneath game with consistency.

How many games have we've seen where the BIlls come out early on offense trying to establish a short passing game only to see it quickly abandoned, and Josh revert back to hero ball. Thats what I just don't get from Josh's mental makeup.... He knows this by now but reverts.

Edited September 14, 2023 by ddaryl

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

chewing sounds like work.

 

In 2 weeks!!

 

Are you going to partake?

 

https://nationaldaycalendar.com/national-chewing-gum-day-september-30/

 

NATIONAL CHEWING GUM DAY | SEPTEMBER 30

National Chewing Gum Day exercises our jaws on September 30th. Pop a bubble or freshen your breath with your favorite piece of chewing gum.

#ChewingGumDay

Humans have used chewing gum for over 5,000 years. They may have chewed it for enjoyment, to stave off hunger, or to freshen their breath much like we do today. The sources used to make gum resulted in minty and sweet chewable globs of wax or sap resin that fulfilled the human urge to gnaw. They were unlikely to produce glossy, pink bubbles worthy of jealous pokes from siblings. However, waking up with it stuck in your hair was still a possibility.  

[teef]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

In 2 weeks!!

 

Are you going to partake?

 

https://nationaldaycalendar.com/national-chewing-gum-day-september-30/

 

NATIONAL CHEWING GUM DAY | SEPTEMBER 30

National Chewing Gum Day exercises our jaws on September 30th. Pop a bubble or freshen your breath with your favorite piece of chewing gum.

#ChewingGumDay

Humans have used chewing gum for over 5,000 years. They may have chewed it for enjoyment, to stave off hunger, or to freshen their breath much like we do today. The sources used to make gum resulted in minty and sweet chewable globs of wax or sap resin that fulfilled the human urge to gnaw. They were unlikely to produce glossy, pink bubbles worthy of jealous pokes from siblings. However, waking up with it stuck in your hair was still a possibility.  

chewing gum in not good for your tmj.  no way.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ddaryl said:

Crazy thing this is exactly the flaws we have saw last year as teams find ways to defend JA. A bunch of us were screaming to just move the chains and stop with the hero ball. Against the Jets he was exactly the QB he was at the ending of last year. For JA to be great and to stay on a HoF trajectory he has to learn the underneath game with consistency.

How many games have we've seen where the BIlls come out early on offense trying to establish a short passing game only to see it quickly abandoned, and Josh revert back to hero ball. Thats what I just don't get from Josh's mental makeup.... He knows this by now but reverts.

 

The example of this was the INT to Davis.  3rd and 2.  Two open WR's underneath to easily pick up the 2 yards to move the chains...forces it into Davis 12 yards down the field.  So irritating. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think I agree with @BeavercreekBillsFan here - Kyle likes guys who run his plays. Because he is the best play designer in football. I don't think he is as good as a playcaller as Reid (and there are probably a few others you could throw in that mix as playcallers - Pederson, McVay actually even Josh McDaniels) but as a play designer, he is unparalleled IMO. Shanahan beats teams on the whiteboard with the Xs and Os. His big successes in his career have come with Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Jimmy G and Brock Purdy. Guys who are very much system Quarterbacks who run the play as it is designed. Matt Ryan was a very good system Quarterback and probably was a top 6 or 7 guy in the league at the time. So I'm not saying he wants average QBs but he wants guys who do not ad-lib too much. He wants you to run the play he designed. 

 

Maybe he could coach Josh into that guy, I'm not convinced though. 

Josh would never be that guy

[DrDawkinstein]

41 minutes ago, MJS said:

He didn't look bored to me. A bored QB shouldn't be dancing around and bailing from the pocket. He wasn't bored at all. He was panicked, confused, amped up, and nervous.

 

Anyone who says he was bored in that game simply didn't watch him. He was frenetic all game long. Even on his awesome TD throw he was like a fox being chased by a bunch of hound dogs. He wasn't comfortable all night.

 

"Bored" may not be the exact right word, but I get what that guy was saying.

 

Frenetic, uncomfortable, anxious, all play into the same vibe that analyst was trying to get across.

 

He got impatient ("bored") with just 1st downs. He wanted a touchdown and he wanted it immediately. So he took horrible deep shots instead of continuing to check it down and move the chains.

 

It's like he's back there going "Ok, we picked up two 1st downs in a row. That earns me a shot to go deep and get this over with"

 

Bro, just keep picking up 1st down until you're in the red zone!

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

I don't disagree with anything you said at all but when you see that there were plays underneath on the all-22 that he didn't take, you need to ask why he didn't take the easy play.

 

I'm not asking him to turn into captain checkdown and throw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 20 but when he's throwing bombs on 2nd and 10 with guys open 4-5 yards in front of him, it's a question that needs to be asked why he's not taking those.

He's not taking them because it's who he is. He knows he can and had made those throws and plays in the past and thinks he can do it again. He is not the let's live to play another down guy and if it is a close game he is going to press and press to score or get the first down in 3rd and long. Josh's tendency is to get it all at once...

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, teef said:

i ***** just fine.

 

It can always get better.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

48 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

He's not taking them because it's who he is. He knows he can and had made those throws and plays in the past and thinks he can do it again. He is not the let's live to play another down guy and if it is a close game he is going to press and press to score or get the first down in 3rd and long. Josh's tendency is to get it all at once...

True. I think if the organization hadn’t failed him and had built him an offensive line and some YAC weapons, he’d be more likely to settle down and take those easier throws. But when you’re dumping it to guys like James cook and Dawson Knox instead of guys like CMC, it’s harder to trust they’re going to help you out. 
 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

"Bored" may not be the exact right word, but I get what that guy was saying.

 

Frenetic, uncomfortable, anxious, all play into the same vibe that analyst was trying to get across.

 

He got impatient ("bored") with just 1st downs. He wanted a touchdown and he wanted it immediately. So he took horrible deep shots instead of continuing to check it down and move the chains.

 

It's like he's back there going "Ok, we picked up two 1st downs in a row. That earns me a shot to go deep and get this over with"

 

Bro, just keep picking up 1st down until you're in the red zone!

I don't think that is necessarily the case. I don't think he was thinking like that. I think Allen has a problem with compounding his mistakes in a game and not moving on from them. I don't think it is because he feels like he deserves or earns to take a deep shot, but more like he feels he needs to overcome and erase mistakes and he gets anxious when the offense is struggling to move the ball, and then compounds it with another mistake.

 

I also think he stops reading the defense and goes on instinct when he is stressed. You have to be calm and calculated to read a defense. He is reacting, not reading or diagnosing. He isn’t looking for short passes because his instincts don't take him there. He gets blinders and doesn't see those anymore.

 

The remedy is to calm down and use his head. He needs to find a way to take a deep breath and reset. It's especially hard when he is facing a really sound, aggressive defense that is trying to pummel him. But he makes the big bucks, so he needs to figure it out.

 

And he has in the past, so there is no reason to think he won't in the future.

[Goin Breakdown]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

That wasn’t a hack, that was me…well I’m kind of a hack, but all I do is post on this message board. 

Lol nah. It was a sports writer. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

59 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

True. I think if the organization hadn’t failed him and had built him an offensive line and some YAC weapons, he’d be more likely to settle down and take those easier throws. But when you’re dumping it to guys like James cook and Dawson Knox instead of guys like CMC, it’s harder to trust they’re going to help you out. 
 

Thats not it at all, we have talent...we have had talent. Josh just refuses to be patient and thats it in an nut shell. This isn't on Beane, McDermott etc its on Josh. HE has to make the conscious decision to take the 10-13 play drives like Patrick Mahomes admitted he needed to do as well years ago.

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

So the argument goes from "McDermott is along for the ride we win because of Josh" 

 

To

 

"Why is Josh Allen not an all world Quarterback at the moment, it must be McDermott's fault"

 

Some people have already decided their answer and will bend every single piece of evidence to fit the narrative. 

 

Joe Marino is spot on. Monday was on Josh Allen. Nobody else.

 

One could argue that when Josh plays well the McD apologists give McD the credit, right.  Short answer, yes.  

 

We can't have it both ways.  

 

In this particular instance absolutely no one is saying that it's the coaches fault.  Allen's putting it on himself.  So isn't the implication that much of the rest is on him as well, particularly since the reasons for his shortcomings are pretty much what's going on now?  

 

To the extent that the coach(es) cannot control it is the extent to which it involves coaching, but that then begs other questions.  

 

You're clearly a McD apologist.  It's expected that you have a bias that way, which is fine, but it needs to be acknowledged.  

 

Saying that "some people have already decided their answer and will bend every single piece of evidence to fit the narrative." may be correct, but it's nowhere more true than on the McD apologist side of the tracks.  

 

So when Allen does correct it, as I suspect he will, let's not give Dorsey or McD the credit for it.  Right?  

 

 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Thats not it at all, we have talent...we have had talent. Josh just refuses to be patient and thats it in an nut shell. This isn't on Beane, McDermott etc its on Josh. HE has to make the conscious decision to take the 10-13 play drives like Patrick Mahomes admitted he needed to do as well years ago.

Easy to say when you’re dumping it to tyreek and kelce with a good o line to get YAC and make life easy. When’s the last time josh could dump it off and you were confident they could break off a big run? I’ll wait. 
 

Josh is always throwing into airtight windows because our receivers suck and they get dropped immediately 

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

There is something about the idea that Josh played the way he did because he “got bored of taking what the defense was giving him” that infuriates me to no end. 
 

Josh Allen was so so bad that he’s the topic of conversation for every media outlet this week. People comparing him to Carson Wentz.
 

And he played that way because he was bored?! I’ll take a guy who is missing a piece here or there. Or needs to get better at skill A or B. But to play like crap because you got bored? If that’s the case he’s done in this league forever and he’s entered the realm of uncoachability. That’s insane myopic, selfish, and narcissistic in a way that makes you a consistent danger to your teams. 
 

Edit: I am not saying this is the case. I vehemently disagree with this. But also, as a team and a fan base we need this not to be the case. To me this is absolutely worst cash scenario. 

 

One could argue that that has coaching, or lack of good coaching, fingerprints all over it though.  

 

This team goes as Allen goes and has, particularly in the playoffs where if he doesn't come out with his A-game we have a very small chance of winning.  

 

From where many see this, McD has very little control over Allen.  Fortunately for him Allen is Allen.  

 

Allen will bounce back this week against a defense on the other end of the rankings spectrum.  Then everyone will say he worked it out.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Avisan said:

There's also NO evidence that McDermott is a "soft, player's coach" that doesn't discipline players, and frankly a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

The narratives people cling to despite making up every piece of evidence in their own heads are fascinating.

 

Where's this "lot of evidence" that McD discipline's players, other than for "being rookies," and holds them accountable?