Rewatching the Game.....Enough Blame to Go Around, BUT....

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, sven233 said:

Well, it's not getting much better working my way back through the game.  It was bad.  However, while there is enough blame to go around, looking back on it, I think we were a little to hard on certain players and coaches.

 

Now, I will say that I haven't looked at the All-22 yet to confirm what I saw from the broadcast angles, but I will do that and adjust anything if necessary.

 

1.  Tre White......far from the biggest problem in this game, so I am just going to get this out of the way now.  First, the TD.  I'm sorry, but if anyone if going to give him grief over that, I don't know what to tell you.  He was in good position, made a play on the ball, and the WR made an amazing catch.  But, other than that play, you never heard his name in coverage and he was solid in the pass game.  As for his 2 missed tackles that led to big plays.  Yes, they were a problem and he has to make those tackles.  However, on the 83 yard run, he was put in a terrible position.  We were completely aligned wrong at the snap and McDermott has admitted as much.  We were playing a gap defense, and the 2nd level was off a gap and should have been bumped over to Tre's side.  By the time the play was coming Tre's way, he was pretty much responsible for 2 gaps.  However, even with that happening, he put himself in position to make the tackle for a short gain and just didn't get it done like we'd want him to do there.  But for those just railing on him saying that he was horrible last night, that just isn't true.  Yes, make the tackles.  But he was done no favors by his teammates.

 

2.  Terrell Bernard......Again, he wasn't perfect by any means, but for someone making his first start at MLB, he did some good things.  He shot gaps and made a couple good stops in the run game.  His average depth of tackle on his run stops was only like a yard and a half or something.  He put himself in good position on several pass plays to take away throws that went unnoticed because the ball didn't go to those spots.  He did allow a couple of receptions that were killers, though.  It's going to happen, unfortunately, and the Jets attacked him a couple of times.  He did get wiped out of some plays for sure because of his lack of size, but he wasn't the tire fire that this board made him out to be last night.  Cover 1 actually just released a breakdown of his game and I would encourage you all to check it out.  He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't as bad as everyone was making him out to be.  Regardless, if your defense give up 16 points, you would take that any week of the season and should win those games.

 

3  Ken Dorsey....The most controversial one on this list for sure.  I will preface this by saying that he didn't call a great game overall.  There were certain calls in this game that were head scratching and unforgivable (I'm looking right at you Draw on 2nd and 15).  But there were definite times in this game where he had the right call at the right time and guys were running wide open and Allen didn't make the proper read.  When Allen said this game was on him, it really was.  There were several times that Dorsey had the right call and for whatever reason, Allen ignored his first read, second read, and sometimes his third read where any one of them would have allowed for a positive play and first downs.  Unfortunately, many of these brain farts for Allen turned into INTs instead of easy positive plays.  These plays were not on Dorsey.  They are on Allen.  Again, Dorsey deserves his share of the blame in this game.  If for nothing else, he deserves blame for not finding a way to reel in Allen when he was going off the tracks.  His game plan was fundamentally flawed, however.  I, and several others, noted going into the game that the weakest part of the Jets defense was their LBs in coverage over the middle of the field.  Kincaid and Knox should have eaten in this game over the middle.  And, for whatever reason, it looked like we wanted nothing to do with the middle of the field last night and I can't understand why.  Kincaid looked the part last night, especially on the couple of catches he did have.  But, he only had 2 catches on 2 targets!  That is inexcusable in this match-up.  The way the game set up and the way he played, he probably should have received 10 targets.  If Dorsey and Allen just want all the way conservative and just checked it down to Kincaid and Knox underneath all game, we probably walk out of there with a win.  All that said, Dorsey deserves his share of the blame for sure, but Allen did him no favors ignoring his intended reads on several occasions.  I am willing to bet the All-22 will be a lot more favorable to Dorsey than many want to admit.  He just didn't get any help at all from his QB.

 

There is plenty more we could get into this game about.  And, I am sure we will over the next couple of days.  But these were a few things that jumped out on the initial rewatch.  Again, if the All-22 shows a different story I will update my thoughts, but there is a lot of trash being talked about this game and I just am not sure it was all warranted.  What is warranted, is any criticism that Allen is getting today.  While I will say the first half was not terrible and was probably passable in many ways, that 2nd half was atrocious and maybe the worst football I have ever seen him play in the NFL. 

Thanks-   

 

I find it difficult to get an accurate view of his progressions without the all 22 because it’s rare that you can see where the safeties and some cbs are in coverage.  That being the case, you can’t really tell if he correctly “ignored” his first or second read.  
 

kincaid caught 4 of 4.

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I mean he had a historical playoff performance just two years ago and was in the process of doing just that before his HC blew it…. 

And now that OC and Shea Tierney are in NYC and not here. For whatever reason, Daboll was able to reign in bad Josh amd he listened and that is the big change IMO.

 

We saw Allen get yelled at by Daboll when he was a bone head...I don't see that now...

 

He lobbied for Dorsey, yet here we are...

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Op

1. White - completely agree. Jury is still out if he can be an elite corner but he was fine in coverage yesterday. 

2. Bernard - completely disagree. He was absolutely awful

3. Dorsey - none of us know. We don't know the play call, we don't know the reads, and we don't know what Allen is supposed to do with the ball. 

4. Allen - he sucked. All three INTs were indefensible.  No elite QB makes those throws. He missed Cook on a sure TD with a poorly thrown ball. Missed Knox low in OT. He is 90% of the reason they lost. I said it last year and people flamed me but he is careless and reckless with the ball and it is getting worse not better. Is that Allen or is that coaching, again none of us know. But he has to play much better if they have any hope. I think he will. I think he will dominate the next 7 weeks and he will be the talk of the league again - in a good way.

[Best Williams Available]

Tre White player better than Sauce Gardner yesterday in a measurable way. 1 circus catch doesn’t change that. His guy was unheard of most of the game. Took away his side of the field like a shutdown does. He used to be a great tackling CB, maybe that comes later?!?

[78thealltimegreat]

I rewatched the game as well and I really can forgive Josh for the arm punt first int and the botched snap.

The first INT he launched and it looks like it was simply a miscommunication on the route as he threw it to the middle and 11 cut up the sidelines

 

The second one on 2-12 was unbelievable Whitehead just stood there like he was fair catching a punt sure Williams pressured him a bit but it was terrible

 

The third one I don’t know was a route he was going to Gabe and Gabe either cut it wrong like Troy said or Josh made a bad throw either way throw shouldn’t have been made and it should have a been a run as it was maybe 3 and 1 1/2 that was Dorsey for having no confidence the line can get a push. 
 

The botched snap was just a ball that Josh didn’t catch that happens in shotgun from time to time.

 

With all that being said he was magnificent most of the first half and the final drive to get to overtime and even in overtime as Dawson Knox honestly dropped an easy one on first down.

 

Josh is an amazing player that gets brain farts from time to time. To be honest when he started getting happy feet in the second half they should have had him use his legs a little more to get into a rhythm. 

 

These things are definitely correctable but it’s on Josh and Dorsey to fix them. 
 

On Sunday I am for sure going to keep an eye on Jets Cowboys. Cause Dak Prescott won last Sunday 40-0 having to do nothing. The Jets D will force him to make him plays. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[PayDaBill$]

How many times do we let our “veteran” qb off the hook with the silly take  “this one is on me”?

 

JA has physical talent, but I’m not sure about the “heady awareness” and ability to breakdown the game on the fly.  Does he put in the work? I’m not sure he’s a student of the game.  He’s raw, more sandlot.  
 

Quick reads, checking down, making the right throw, understanding what the defenders are doing, he just doesn’t appear to have a firm

grasp.

I hate to say but the knocks we read about predraft have proven  fairly accurate.

Edited September 12, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[Orlando Buffalo]

To blame Tre on that Great TD is insane. The Jets should not have been in position to tie it at that point unless Josh is that bad for the whole second half. Dorsey schemed guys open and Josh still forced it into double coverage. I love Josh but yesterday was his failure above all others by a big margin. 

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Everyone takes a backseat to Josh, who single-handedly lost this football game

Not that simple for me. Yes, Josh Allen had a horrible game, we all agree on that.

 

What stood out to me as the key reason why we lost this game, is who was responsible for allowing the offense to show no urgency in attempting to score a touchdown right before halftime?

 

After the two minute warning, did everyone not see how much time the Bills let run off the clock as they took their time moving downfield. Especially on the 3rd and 1 play, where Allen dug in to get the first down?

 

Look at how much time was wasted once they got to the 20 yard line!

 

They then had to rely on making deep passes to the end zone to get a touchdown!

 

That was outrageous and should not have happened!

 

The Bills were moving the ball on this drive, and could have gone into the locker room up 17-3, instead they settled for the field goal, and that's what they looked like they wanted to do!

 

This series is why we lost! Who was responsible for this lackadaisical approach?

 

Dorsey? McDermott? This was inexcusable!

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

In real life Josh led the offense to tie the game and send it to overtime.  He gave the team a chance to win. Then special teams proceeded to lose the game.  

I’ll give him credit for driving down the field for FG on the last possession.  But he also fumbled the ball in Jets territory leading to a deficit.  He also threw 3 very bad INTs into coverage that killed drives. 
 

Anytime a team loses its really never on one player or coach.  But in this case, the majority of blame falls on Allen.  Your $250M franchise QB can’t play that bad.  Even Josh admitted that 

3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Not that simple for me. Yes, Josh Allen had a horrible game, we all agree on that.

 

What stood out to me as the key reason why we lost this game, is who was responsible for allowing the offense to show no urgency in attempting to score a touchdown right before halftime?

 

After the two minute warning, did everyone not see how much time the Bills let run off the clock as they took their time moving downfield. Especially on the 3rd and 1 play, where Allen dug in to get the first down?

 

Look at how much time was wasted once they got to the 20 yard line!

 

They then had to rely on making deep passes to the end zone to get a touchdown!

 

That was outrageous and should not have happened!

 

The Bills were moving the ball on this drive, and could have gone into the locker room up 17-3, instead they settled for the field goal, and that's what they looked like they wanted to do!

 

This series is why we lost! Who was responsible for this lackadaisical approach?

 

Dorsey? McDermott? This was inexcusable!

If you scroll Twitter you will see a plethora of plays where Josh tries to do too much.  He bailed on the pocket when he didn’t need to, threw into coverage when he had open receivers, bypassed running into open spaces to hold onto the ball.  
 

As much as I’m not sold on Dorsey.  He gave Josh some answers on short hot routes.  Josh just didn’t take them.  

[78thealltimegreat]

10 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said:

How many times do we let our “veteran” qb off the hook with the silly take  “this one is on me”?

 

JA has physical talent, but I’m not sure about the “heady awareness” and ability to breakdown the game on the fly.  Does he put in the work? I’m not sure he’s a student of the game.  He’s raw, more sandlot.  
 

Quick reads, checking down, making the right throw, understanding what the defenders are doing, he just doesn’t appear to have a firm

grasp.

I hate to say but the knocks we read about predraft have proven  fairly accurate.

Wouldn’t this have shown up before he he’s had 177 touchdowns? 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, sven233 said:

 

I have no idea what happened on the sideline or if anyone said anything to Allen.  Allen knows, but he tends to put so much on his shoulders that things snowball when they go wrong.  That was one thing Daboll was able to do when he was here.  If Allen was off or making terrible decisions, he had no problem getting in his face about that.  I don't know if anyone did that last night, but it surely didn't feel like anyone was trying to reign him in.  Sometimes you have to protect the player from himself.  That is on the coaches.

No one gets in his face. Probably not Dorsey or McDermott.  At least Daboll did constantly when Josh switched to reckless mode.  Diggs got in his face and look what the media did with it.  Josh MUST tone down attempting these freak plays we're so used to.  It's OK Josh to play a little boring once in awhile.  Protect the damn ball and reduce the turnovers. 

[JohnNord]

7 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

To blame Tre on that Great TD is insane. The Jets should not have been in position to tie it at that point unless Josh is that bad for the whole second half. Dorsey schemed guys open and Josh still forced it into double coverage. I love Josh but yesterday was his failure above all others by a big margin. 

I didn’t think Tre played poorly at all.  He missed one shoe string tackle which happens.  Other than that you didn’t notice him in coverage which is a good thing 

[Mark Vader]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’ll give him credit for driving down the field for FG on the last possession.  But he also fumbled the ball in Jets territory leading to a deficit.  He also threw 3 very bad INTs into coverage that killed drives. 
 

Anytime a team loses its really never on one player or coach.  But in this case, the majority of blame falls on Allen.  Your $250M franchise QB can’t play that bad.  Even Josh admitted that 

If you scroll Twitter you will see a plethora of plays where Josh tries to do too much.  He bailed on the pocket when he didn’t need to, threw into coverage when he had open receivers, bypassed running into open spaces to hold onto the ball.  
 

As much as I’m not sold on Dorsey.  He gave Josh some answers on short hot routes.  Josh just didn’t take them.  

I said that Josh Allen had a horrible game. I am not denying that.

 

What I want to know is who was responsible for our lazy effort at the end of the first half! Why aren't all the fans outraged by this?!

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

No one gets in his face. Probably not Dorsey or McDermott.  At least Daboll did constantly when Josh switched to reckless mode.  Diggs got in his face and look what the media did with it.  Josh MUST tone down attempting these freak plays we're so used to.  It's OK Josh to play a little boring once in awhile.  Protect the damn ball and reduce the turnovers. 

I don’t think it’s about getting in his face but I do think there is something to the way that Daboll had a calming influence and could reel him back in when necessary.  I don’t think Dorsey is like that and that Josh sees him more like a fellow QB than a coach

[34-78-83]

20 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Op

 

2. Bernard - completely disagree. He was absolutely awful

 

Nope, he wasn't... not perfect by any means but certainly nothing remotely close to awful.

 

People with opinions on gameplay...  if you're unfamiliar with what "played well / played poorly" really looks like, there's plenty of content like this out there to guide you. Save yourself a bad take. Film results are as indisputable as it gets in football.

[akcash]

How about Knox dropping that ball on 1st and 15. How about Brown and Morse getting shoved back in Allen's face. Allen didn't respect the safety in the middle of the field and that took points away from us. That's on him. Things to learn from in this game but it was the first game. We've seen other QBs and offenses start slow. Josh took a big helmet to helmet hit on that fumble too, that wasn't called. It was a chit game but it was a team loss. The good news is we have the ability to control it. Against Miami or San Fran or maybe even Dallas that might be a different story. But we're still a very good team. Just got to get into the dance. We need to keep with the running game too. Need a little more power running game. We need to be able to run the ball when  we want.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Watched the painful game again and my take aways:

 

Those calling for Dorsey’s head because of play calling alone need to watch Kincaid and Knox across the middle all night. It was there, josh had easy completions right infront of him dialed up by dorsey but josh refused the middle of the field.

 

Dorsey had some bone head calls but this loss was not even close to his fault.

 

Cook looked good, but I think Harris is going to get more work as a down hill runner, it showed that's not cooks game. I think we see more time share.

 

The jets had all off season to plan for josh and it showed, they baited him in every possible faucet of the game. Even baiting him into scrambles up the middle just to have a LB fake blitz then delay and float across the middle to catch josh trying to leak through. And we saw how the safeties owned josh all night.

 

Josh bailed out of the pocket instantly all night, making life hell for his line. Brown had bone head plays but josh made things unnecessarily hard on his line last night.

 

Summary: jets had all off season to study josh, knew his tendencies and weaknesses like all division opponents, baited him and josh fell for it all night. And I think it got in joshs head after the first pick knowing he was falling for it and things snowballed from there and hero ball ensued. Hopefully things go up from here.

Kincaid appeared to me to be open over the middle quite a bit.  Joshs interception forcing ball to Gabe- Diggs was open passed the first down marker- right in front 

[Billsatlastin2018]

I don’t give a shite where people want to assign blame!

 

The bottom line is that a HOF QB went out after 4 plays, the Bills held a 13-3 lead at the half and COLLAPSED!

 

As I watched this embarrassing debacle… Wide Right, the Music City Miracle and 13 Seconds were flashing through my brain.

 

Oh nooooooooo… they’re not going to FUBAR this again?

 

Of course, they Billsy are!

[PayDaBill$]

29 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Wouldn’t this have shown up before he he’s had 177 touchdowns? 

Idk maybe Dab’s simplified things for JA.  Who the hell knows but he’s sure as shite struggling with it now 

.

[SoCal Deek]

It’s not complicated. Josh is and always was completely undisciplined. His athleticism papers over a lot of utter bone headed plays. Last night the bone headedness completely outplayed the athleticism. There’s a limit to how stupid you can play on an NFL field and get away with it! (And I’m not even talking about the three interceptions.)