Rewatching the Game.....Enough Blame to Go Around, BUT....

[Chaos]

14 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

And special teams were in a position to choke because QB1 bumbled the game away to the point where we had the same 50/50 chance to win the game with which we started and with which we had far exceeded at the half and, you guessed it, before we got stupid and causal with the ball. 

As I said, losers blame blown opprtunites on others. Winners capitalize on opportunities 

[RevWarRifleman]

Not going to win many ball games scoring 13 points

[sven233]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

The only point you made that I have a problem with is Ken Dorsey, I gave him the benefit of the doubt last season because he was a 1st time OC in a brand new offense but he's had a whole offseason and training camp to improve his craft but it's exactly the same. Rewatching the game and dissecting it it's almost exactly the same, when you can clearly see that Allen is struggling, why have him throw the long ball, no TE screens, no RB screens, Harty looked like he was going to be huge in this offense catching the 1st 3 and then he didn't catch a single pass. Allen played like ***** correct but Dorsey did absolutely nothing to help the guy out. If pressure and the OL aren't holding up then taking 15 seconds on go routes is just stupid and I feel like we have no chance with him at this stage but that's just my opinion, it's the 1st game of the season so he obviously can change things up but if he doesn't it will be exactly the same under Dorsey as last year.

 

The thing is, he can't make the decisions for Allen.  There were several plays that Allen made the decision to push the ball down the field when it wasn't the right decision to make.  There was one play I saw, maybe on the INT he tried to force to Davis, his primary read should have been to Kincaid over the middle of the field.  He was open on a stick route.  Not only that, Diggs was wide open on a crosser.  But, in the end, Allen ignored both of them and pushed the ball into harms way.  Dorsey deserves blame for the overall gameplan for sure, but he can't make the decisions for Allen. 

[sven233]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

It got to the point where he was just bailing the pocket because he saw the rush coming… he played like a less raw rookie QB last night and completely unprepared. 

 

I mean, I can't blame him for feeling like he was going to get hit every play.  The pressure was getting to him so fast most of the time, he expected it even if the pocket was clean.  That happens to a lot of QBs, but the great ones should not panic under pressure.  He was bad last night and didn't know where he was supposed to go with the ball on several occasions.  It was a terrible outing for him.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

38 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

In real life the stupid turnovers contributed greatly to the fact that he had to lead the team to the game-tying field goal in the first instance. 

This.  We had them on the ropes at the half and we couldn’t finish.  Three dumb turnovers. 

This.  All day long.  Someone has to get in his face and tell him the truth and piss him off if need be.  It’s better for everyone, including him.  

Well if McDermott wanted to run the ball he could get on the mic and override the play call. 

 

Cook seemed to find some success running the ball, but the box score is 12 carries for 46 yards. 

 

Knowing Allen would commit 4 turnovers, honestly running 3x and punting would have been better than what the Bills did. 

[BillnutinHouston]

OP - Didn't read any of your analysis but just stopped by to pay respect to your intestinal fortitude for re-watching that monstrosity.  

 

I deleted my recording immediately after the punt return.

[bobobonators]

Final drive to tie the game before OT. 
 

How can this offense move the ball so easily against an elite defense when they knew exactly what was coming and STILL couldn’t stop it? How can we look so good and then other moments look so blah? 
 

Should we just say F it and give Diggs 20 targets a game? Should we go no huddle more often and not let Josh be with his thoughts so much? This offense looked best when we went no huddle/up tempo vs the Jets. Id be curious to see how that plays out the remainder of the season. But the faster tempo made the offense seem crisper.
 

Im not imagining this am I?

[Old Coot]

1 hour ago, sven233 said:

But there were definite times in this game where he had the right call at the right time and guys were running wide open and Allen didn't make the proper read.  When Allen said this game was on him, it really was.  There were several times that Dorsey had the right call and for whatever reason, Allen ignored his first read, second read, and sometimes his third read where any one of them would have allowed for a positive play and first downs.  Unfortunately, many of these brain farts for Allen turned into INTs instead of easy positive plays. 

I think you are onto something here. During camp Allen made a statement about how he needs to work on his eyes being in the right place.

 

Any thoughts on why Allen would not go through his reads? Not enough time? Misreading the D? Looking for the homerun ball? Other?

[Dubie54]

I don’t understand why Josh isn’t talking with Dorsey while he’s on the sidelines. Never saw him with headphones the whole game. If these two are going to get on the same page then i5 would seem there needs to be communication going on during the game. 

[3rdand12]

30 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

The thing is, he can't make the decisions for Allen.  There were several plays that Allen made the decision to push the ball down the field when it wasn't the right decision to make.  There was one play I saw, maybe on the INT he tried to force to Davis, his primary read should have been to Kincaid over the middle of the field.  He was open on a stick route.  Not only that, Diggs was wide open on a crosser.  But, in the end, Allen ignored both of them and pushed the ball into harms way.  Dorsey deserves blame for the overall gameplan for sure, but he can't make the decisions for Allen. 

This is where i still hold Coaching accountable.
 Ken cant be his buddy or peer.
But in reality he just might be.
Josh needed his QB Coach in his ear on the sideline. Some actual body of authority speaking to his face. Supportive and correcting bad behavior !
 Josh lost his sht
Where were his mentors ?
 

its a bad system in place for Josh to be his best. And that makes me sad for real.
 and its really unacceptable IMHO.

McD better right the ship before he loses the team again. 

[Johnnycage46]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

In real life Josh led the offense to tie the game and send it to overtime.  He gave the team a chance to win. Then special teams proceeded to lose the game.  

 

Yeah, but that's like helping someone up after you push them down and expecting credit for helping them (RE: Josh put the team in a position to need to scramble for the last second tying FG with his horrid play and turnover-machine behavior).

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

Up 10 in the 3rd quarter, then 7 - we threw 46 times against that defense. 
 

Allen hurt us.  
 

Coaching and play calling is why Allen hurt us.  
 

Our run plays were the throws at or around the line of scrimmage because we still have no faith in a north south run game.  
 

 

Did McD walk over to Allen once?  Oh right he’s doing defense.  And I’m sure Joe Brady is telling him you suck right now get your ***t together. 

Allen hurt us because Allen hurt us.

 

I don’t care if they decided to throw the ball 75 times. Moronic decisions with the football are just that. Moronic.

 

 

[3rdand12]

35 minutes ago, sven233 said:

 

I mean, I can't blame him for feeling like he was going to get hit every play.  The pressure was getting to him so fast most of the time, he expected it even if the pocket was clean.  That happens to a lot of QBs, but the great ones should not panic under pressure.  He was bad last night and didn't know where he was supposed to go with the ball on several occasions.  It was a terrible outing for him.

He did this last year . With similar results.

Move the pocket Dorsey. Stay in the pocket Josh. Step into the pocket Josh.

 some of those breakouts were ghosts. Again.

I focused on the O line. It wasnt that bad and the Jets are one of the best for sure. Scheme against that Ken

You are not going to get the long deep plays you want without going horizontal (screens flares short curls and making full use of those TEs.

 Do the Bills even know how to run a proper screen with  the line pulling to the same side ?

Edited September 12, 2023 by 3rdand12

[Norcalbillsfan]

Watched the painful game again and my take aways:

 

Those calling for Dorsey’s head because of play calling alone need to watch Kincaid and Knox across the middle all night. It was there, josh had easy completions right infront of him dialed up by dorsey but josh refused the middle of the field.

 

Dorsey had some bone head calls but this loss was not even close to his fault.

 

Cook looked good, but I think Harris is going to get more work as a down hill runner, it showed that's not cooks game. I think we see more time share.

 

The jets had all off season to plan for josh and it showed, they baited him in every possible faucet of the game. Even baiting him into scrambles up the middle just to have a LB fake blitz then delay and float across the middle to catch josh trying to leak through. And we saw how the safeties owned josh all night.

 

Josh bailed out of the pocket instantly all night, making life hell for his line. Brown had bone head plays but josh made things unnecessarily hard on his line last night.

 

Summary: jets had all off season to study josh, knew his tendencies and weaknesses like all division opponents, baited him and josh fell for it all night. And I think it got in joshs head after the first pick knowing he was falling for it and things snowballed from there and hero ball ensued. Hopefully things go up from here.

[Big Blitz]

26 minutes ago, Beast said:

Allen hurt us because Allen hurt us.

 

I don’t care if they decided to throw the ball 75 times. Moronic decisions with the football are just that. Moronic.

 

 

 

“Yep OC coaching doesn’t matter.”
 

—-Tua

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, sven233 said:

 

The thing is, he can't make the decisions for Allen.  There were several plays that Allen made the decision to push the ball down the field when it wasn't the right decision to make.  There was one play I saw, maybe on the INT he tried to force to Davis, his primary read should have been to Kincaid over the middle of the field.  He was open on a stick route.  Not only that, Diggs was wide open on a crosser.  But, in the end, Allen ignored both of them and pushed the ball into harms way.  Dorsey deserves blame for the overall gameplan for sure, but he can't make the decisions for Allen. 

And this is where this question comes in, at which point to we reach thus is just who he is and there is no changing it? This is his what, 6th year? There are always conversations about any player if he just does x and gets that fixed and then takes care of y....

 

At some point they level out and that is who they are...

 

It's likely we get to double digit wins and are in the playoffs. If we don't have the 1 seed or are a wild card team, can Allen beat 4 good to great teams (without self destructing) in a row to win the SB? Can the defense or OL or coaching staff be counted on to do that?

 

It's a stretch isn't it?

57 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Do the Bills even know how to run a proper screen with  the line pulling to the same side ?

 

Lol, no they can't. I don't think they have been effective at it since Chan was our HC.

 

That's like asking can our defense ever not get gashed in the running game? 

[3rdand12]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

And this is where this question comes in, at which point to we reach thus is just who he is and there is no changing it? This is his what, 6th year? There are always conversations about any player if he just does x and gets that fixed and then takes care of y....

 

At some point they level out and that is who they are...

 

It's likely we get to double digit wins and are in the playoffs. If we don't have the 1 seed or are a wild card team, can Allen beat 4 good to great teams (without self destructing) in a row to win the SB? Can the defense or OL or coaching staff be counted on to do that?

 

It's a stretch isn't it?

 

Lol, no they can't. I don't think they have been effective at it since Chan was our HC.

 

That's like asking can our defense ever not get gashed in the running game? 

Chan and the horizontal game. 

 Is it wrong to miss he and Fitz a lil bit ?

😏
 

[34-78-83]

OP, your take on Bernard seems pretty on point - 

 

Not perfect but we were pleasantly surprised

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Chan and the horizontal game. 

 Is it wrong to miss he and Fitz a lil bit ?

😏
 

Lol no and we could actually run the ball too. If you can combine both of those offenses and give Allen fitzys brain....

[TBBills Fan]

2 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

cant turn the ball over 4 times,  end of story.   team as a whole played bad,  but the D kept us in it like usual.  all the O had to do was not be dumb.   we know what happened.

And the penalties