Do You Still "TRUST THE PROCESS"?

[BananaB]

Nope. started losing faith last year when Hyde went down and Poyer starting missing a little time. Backups were on the roster for a few years and they looked ***** lost on the field. Kind of makes me worry about any young player who’s not seeing the field. Spent a lot of draft picks on that dline and keep bringing in aging players to get the job done. Beane adding guys to the offense that all were unable to hold starting jobs on other teams. He bargain basement shopping hoping to get lucky and it hardly pans out. There is also the fact we are giving a couple guys too much leeway with their job. Davis and Brown are really playing with little consistency but it seems it doesn’t matter. They work hard so that’s enough.  It’s just not looking good right now and I said all offseason they didn’t do enough to improve the roster.  

Gotta be change at some point but for the Bills it looks like it might be all at once. Can’t rely on aging players forever

Edited September 15, 2023 by BananaB

[Scott7975]

The process needs to get over the hump. I started to doubt it after 13 seconds. Then last year with the mental exhaustion excuses. Let’s see what happens this year. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, QCity said:

That phrase is nothing more than marketing speak for a rebuild. That's it. Nothing more. 

 

 

That, as a former coach, is not what I understand trust the process to mean. I understand trust the process to mean do not fixate on outcomes, because outcomes are ultimately impacted by a degree of randomness. Instead you must trust the process which is are you making the right decisions and working in the right way on a granular level day to do that increase your chance of a positive outcome allowing for the randomness. Basically if you trust in your process on a day to day basis, you practice properly, you look after your body properly, you study film properly, you learn the game plan properly then over time your results will reflect that. We have a phrase over here in the UK... look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.... and it is the same principle. Get the preparation right the results will come. 

 

The reason it tends to be a mantra of rebuilding teams is because in the early stages if a rebuild quite often the outcomes (i.e. the results) are going to be difficult. It is a way of keeping your players focussed on their improvement. Don't worry that we lost on Sunday, as long as we are getting everything right Monday through Saturday that will eventually turn around.... so trust the process. 

[BananaB]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That, as a former coach, is not what I understand trust the process to mean. I understand trust the process to mean do not fixate on outcomes, because outcomes are ultimately impacted by a degree of randomness. Instead you must trust the process which is are you making the right decisions and working in the right way on a granular level day to do that increase your chance of a positive outcome allowing for the randomness. Basically if you trust in your process on a day to day basis, you practice properly, you look after your body properly, you study film properly, you learn the game plan properly then over time your results will reflect that. We have a phrase over here in the UK... look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.... and it is the same principle. Get the preparation right the results will come. 

 

The reason it tends to be a mantra of rebuilding teams is because in the early stages if a rebuild quite often the outcomes (i.e. the results) are going to be difficult. It is a way of keeping your players focussed on their improvement. Don't worry that we lost on Sunday, as long as we are getting everything right Monday through Saturday that will eventually turn around.... so trust the process. 

It’s not working here because young players seem to never be ready when their time is called. That’s why we hold onto the aging vets. So something is not going right from Monday to Saturday and coaching staff has to be held accountable if you believe what you say

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, BananaB said:

It’s not working here because young players seem to never be ready when their time is called. That’s why we hold onto the aging vets. So something is not going right from Monday to Saturday and coaching staff has to be held accountable if you believe what you say

 

Which young player wasn't ready? James Cook? Kincaid? Torrence? Benford? They all looked pretty ready to me. 

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which young player wasn't ready? James Cook? Kincaid? Torrence? Benford? They all looked pretty ready to me. 

To be fair Gunner you have to take Kincaid and Torrence off your list. They just got here. They’re not really part of your well described ‘process’. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

To be fair Gunner you have to take Kincaid and Torrence off your list. They just got here. They’re not really part of your well described ‘process’. 

 

His point was young players don't look ready.... they looked pretty ready. If the point he was trying to make is that the two former 6th round draft picks who were our depth at safety last season were not all pros.... well I am not sure that is a reflection on anything other than the realities of salary cap and draft induced parity in the NFL. 

[SirAndrew]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

To be fair Gunner you have to take Kincaid and Torrence off your list. They just got here. They’re not really part of your well described ‘process’. 

Yes, I think he’s more referring to players like Elam who doesn’t see the field, and guys like Basham who get traded before seeing much of the field. That is problematic with high draft choices, but there’s a fine line between coaching and poor drafting. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

His point was young players don't look ready.... they looked pretty ready. If the point he was trying to make is that the two former 6th round draft picks who were our depth at safety last season were not all pros.... well I am not sure that is a reflection on anything other than the realities of salary cap and draft induced parity in the NFL. 

Yes and no. I think if the process is working then you’d see a well developed ‘next man up’ routine in which players are released (ie Edmunds) but the process has last years back ups ready to step in and fill the void. One game is obviously not long enough to be a trend of anything but I’m likewise concerned that the Bills appear to be hanging on to some underperforming veterans (Poyer and Hyde) and not seeing the development of those backups (Epenesa and Basham) that the process ‘should’ take care of. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes and no. I think if the process is working then you’d see a well developed ‘next man up’ routine in which players are released (ie Edmunds) but the process has last years back ups ready to step in and fill the void. One game is obviously not long enough to be a trend of anything but I’m likewise concerned that the Bills appear to be hanging on to some underperforming veterans (Poyer and Hyde) and not seeing the development of those backups (Epenesa and Basham) that the process ‘should’ take care of. 

 

I think they have missed on some draft picks. Don't think there is any dispute about that. I don't think that is coaching not having guys ready. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they have missed on some draft picks. Don't think there is any dispute about that. I don't think that is coaching not having guys ready. 

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Yes, I think he’s more referring to players like Elam who doesn’t see the field, and guys like Basham who get traded before seeing much of the field. That is problematic with high draft choices, but there’s a fine line between coaching and poor drafting. 

 

Yes we've had players that didn't work out just like every team.  We also have had picks that work out but those are overlooked because people (not saying you) want to hold onto the failures.

 

If you can get two starters out of each draft class, you did pretty well.  If you get 3, you had a great draft.

 

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/26/23042105/nfl-draft-pick-bust-rate-remains-very-high

 

 

 

 

The graph above breaks down the percentage of players, broken down by round in which they were drafted (R1, R2, etc.) and whether they signed a second contract with the team that drafted them (same team) or a different team. The results aren’t particularly good- even among first-round draft picks.

For example, among first-round draft picks selected between 2010-2017, only 31% signed a second contract with the team that drafted them.

 

Now that doesn’t mean that 69% of first-round draft picks during that period were total busts, but in most cases it meant the team didn’t value them enough to extend them. Comparing them to the previous study, these would be players in the average or worse categories, but some in the ‘good’ category as well.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

We should be way past this by now. 

 

This isn't about culture anymore, we need talent, we need a Top 5 offense, a consistent Josh Allen. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

I’m taking a wait and see approach.  If we don’t make it to the Super Bowl in year 5 with an aging roster we need a new process

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

 

Allen was a top 7 pick right?  After Allen, how many top 7 NFL offensive talent have we drafted?

Not saying you, but I've had discussions with people about the Bengals draft and some arguments were "The Bengals got Chase for Burrow and we didn't do that for Allen."  Well, Chase was a top 5 pick.  That year, we picked I think in the mid 20's.  

 

The Chiefs, since they have won 2 Super Bowls in the last 4 years.  

In the last few drafts, what stand out offensive player have they drafted?

Sky Moore?  Mecole Hardman?

 

Not saying the Chiefs suck at drafting but you're not going to have as many big hits if you're drafting the the 20's and 30's all the time.

[SirAndrew]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

I worry it’s far too easy for young players to enter McD’s doghouse. Elam is the first player I think of. It seems like guys enter that doghouse, and don’t get a chance to learn on the field. That’s fine for a college coach, next man up really is true, but in the pros you’ve invested in these guys. It’s like giving up on a new boat at the first repair. It just doesn’t make sense at this level. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

We should be way past this by now. 

 

This isn't about culture anymore, we need talent, we need a Top 5 offense, a consistent Josh Allen. 

Definitely….but…this specific thread is about The Process. That term doesn’t refer to drafting players with exceptional talent. As I understand it that term refers to an internal system at OBD that develops players once they’re here. When I saw Coach McD, on national television, pointing at his brain and yelling at Josh to play smart football last Monday night it leads me to believe that The Process sure as heck isn’t working. 

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Allen was a top 7 pick right?  After Allen, how many top 7 NFL offensive talent have we drafted?

Not saying you, but I've had discussions with people about the Bengals draft and some arguments were "The Bengals got Chase for Burrow and we didn't do that for Allen."  Well, Chase was a top 5 pick.  That year, we picked I think in the mid 20's.  

 

The Chiefs, since they have won 2 Super Bowls in the last 4 years.  

In the last few drafts, what stand out offensive player have they drafted?

Sky Moore?  Mecole Hardman?

 

Not saying the Chiefs suck at drafting but you're not going to have as many big hits if you're drafting the the 20's and 30's all the time.

See my comment above. This thread is about The Process. It’s NOT about the draft. 

[mjd1001]

What is "the process" we are supposed to trust.

 

The "process" I like is being patient, developing from within, not giving out terrible contracts.  The Bills are kinda hit-and-miss with that.

 

For example, I like Von Miller, but I wasn't all for giving him that contract.  I understand why he did it, but to me that money could have been better spent on upgrading the OL.  So to me, "the process" is different from what others want it to be.  I think from the Bills point of view, "the process" is just asking fans to be patient with WHATEVER they choose to do.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I worry it’s far too easy for young players to enter McD’s doghouse. Elam is the first player I think of. It seems like guys enter that doghouse, and don’t get a chance to learn on the field. That’s fine for a college coach, next man up really is true, but in the pros you’ve invested in these guys. It’s like giving up on a new boat at the first repair. It just doesn’t make sense at this level. 

 

Do you feel that regardless of how they perform in camp or practice, it doesn't matter and they should play regardless?

 

If Benford in camp completely outplays Elam, Elam should start because he was a higher draft pick?

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

 

So the process only counts if you were drafted by the Bills and only counts if you were drafted after Josh? I'm confused as to your parameters.